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Uncluttered wrote:You seem to think I suggested they export a lengthy commute.

Actually, I think the lengthy commute is a real-world issue that would have existed when Yah-yah issued The Message, and that it would have remained a problem in the TSW setting. Are we misunderstanding each other here? I'm not knocking bicycles as a cheap export from Heaven, or as a way to win over Heavensent humans. I was just thinking that if we're going to sell cheap bicycles to USians on Earth and expect them to use them instead of driving to work, then living in US suburbs and driving into the city to work (in US cities where mass transit is a bad joke) isn't exactly convenient. It would, of course, help with the obesity epidemic.

Uncluttered wrote:I never specified the U.S. That was you.

Yes, it was me. I was trying to extrapolate a demand for a change in how far we live from our workplaces based on a rise in gasoline prices and the introduction of dirt-cheap bicycles. I'm sorry if you took that as a personal attack; it was not my intention.

Ryan Thunder wrote:You'd want it to be some kind of MIDI controller instead of an actual guitar, I think.

That would work, but I think it would be interesting to hear what a guitar purpose-built for Abigor would sound like.

Destructionator XIII wrote:edit: actually maybe he could use a large harp guitar style!

Broken strings might still be an issue.

DeRogue wrote: Oh god, a contra-bass guitar.

or using a Double Bass as an acoustic.

I believe I have some pants to change.

What about something like this?

Nematocyst wrote:What about something like this?

Looks like a prop from the set of This is Spinal Tap.

Uncluttered wrote: 2. Bicycles:Both for screwhead use, and for export. Earth is dealing with petroleum shortages anyhow. IIRC The supply in hell hasn't ramped up yet.
3. Watches: Because of the whole clock discussion. Also, mechanical watches built with cheap labor might be a good export to earth. This will capitalize on the patience of the heavenites, and the metalurgy of the hellions. Deliberately encourage cooperation.

Im wary of the consecuences cheap exports will have in Earth economies, specially in the middle of the post wars crisis.
The economic policies to regulate the exchange of products between Heaven or Hell would be a book on its own.

Uncluttered wrote: 4. Babies: I'm pretty sure heavenites will love to adopt first life babies. They're mostly sterile, and everybody loves babies. We've got plenty of unwanted babies on earth, and there might be a gaggle of dead babies in hell. Spreading the children around will create a sense of "global" community.

Not sure raising babies in heaven is a good way to prepare then for a second life in hell. would they return? Wont they hate or despise baldricks, even if solely for aesthetics reasons? Frankly, who would live in Hell if you can live in Heaven?
I envision a future were wealthy second lifers live in Heaven and control their industries in Hell via teleconference via fiber-ops through a reopened hellgate.

Uncluttered wrote: 5. Movies: There is not much to do in heaven and hell. There are going to be big movie fans. Movies will pacify them, and introduce them to earth culture. Worn our temples to Yahweh can be converted.
Eventually, they are going to want to make their own movies.
Sad prediction: Demons will dress up like Klingons.
6. Music: Same as with the movies. Use the temples as venues.

Hell yeah! I mean... Heaven yeah! Be very selective with the movies, though.

Uncluttered wrote: 7. Marijuana/hemp: Easy to grow,exporable. makes people relaxed. Now that all the religious nuts on earth are out of power, You can have a sensible drug policy. Hemp products are exportable. Even if superior products on earth exist, what hippy can resist organic weed from heaven? That's bicycle money right there.

not quite. Although drugs are not that big a problem, specially soft ones, to second lifers and caelions, a permissive actitude towards those is not a good political stance to present to Earth governments. Drugs are a health issue and a criminality buster whether they are legal or not. Maybe marijuana can join cigarrettes in the bunch of legal drugs, but that`s that.
It wont look good if heavens administration grows freely any kind of drugs that can then found its way to Earth. it would be US-Colombia again, only that this time is the Colombian government who`s protecting the FARC.

8. Televized sports: Now that religion is no longer the opiate of the masses..
9. Voting: Nuff said.
10. Tourism: Hell can export raw materials, but heaven is an untainted wilderness. A tourism industry will be a way to earn that new bicycle.

You, really, really, REALLY like to ride your bicycle, don`t you?
I don`t know if voting would be a popular option until sometime, several years actually.

11. Wildlife sanctuary: Endangered species? Need a protected place to put those rhino? Drop them in heaven. Since the heavenites don't have guns or cars, the rhino is on an even footing.

boy, if only it were that easy...

Nematocyst wrote:

Eddie Van Helsing wrote: I think that the lowest-ranked minor demons might be able to handle a human-sized guitar or bass, but could you imagine Abigor handling a Les Paul? It would look like a ukelele in the hands of a reasonably large human being.

It already looks unimpressive in the hands of a teenaged girl...
But we can upscale guitars, can't we? Abigor had a custom made computer.

Tonight we rock in Hell!
I wonder if the first all baldrick Metal band would be black, symphonic or death metal...
Personally listening to a grind band made of baldricks would be like hearing a Nazi doctor singing about his actions during the war.

Btw, is there any info on what to do with the nazis in Hell? Not the famous ones, the normal, "I just shoot him because my boss told me" kind....

EDIT: on a second thought... what if the metal takes roots in hell (some pretty easily imaginable) and then... daemons turn to salsa!!
Or to sing Kumbaya holding their hands and smiling at each other in a flower field...
how`s that for shock value?

@Eddie Van Helsing, Uncluttered:
On the bicycle stuff, I´ll throw an opinion in, if I may.
In the 90`s things were BAD in Cuba, specially fuel shortages and spare parts for cars. People naturally turned to bikes MASSIVELY. I don`t know how was it to Chinese or Vietnamese, but we took it with good humor, even if you took a freaking long time to get anywhere. And god forbid you to live in a mountain area.
but all in all, bikes did well, and were everywhere. However, in the very instant things started to look marginally better, everyone who could ditched the bikes and went for the good ole fuel consuming motorcycles or cars. Bicycles were left for youngsters (and poorer saps).

So, bicycles are sport, hobby and last mean resort. Also, toys. But never a true and serious choice unless you are fighting global warming, obesity or making a point out of something.

Deebles wrote:Second-lifers don't need to eat, although they do enjoy it, so would never have needed huge amounts in imports before. But the secondlife humans outside the city could certainly export all manner of agricultural produce, which could be very handy for Earth's population after multiple "acts of god" have doubtless wreaked havoc on the agricultural sector.

One natural sector for the city secondlifers might be textiles: to start with, they could do outsourced tailoring etc. once they've caught up with modern fashion, after eons of experience making clothes for the angels and each other.

On the whole, we're going to be facing a huge culture shock with the heavensent, excepting Michael's few later arrivals. In hell this would have been small potatoes compared to the rapid improvement to quality of life after being tortured all the time. For people in heaven, previously tasked with less-than-arduous cozy domestic eternal servitude, and generally freed from hunger, disease, want etc. in return... it's going to be difficult. They had a system that more or less worked for them, and the modern capitalist economy etc. is going to be something very alien indeed. Partly things may depend on their existing status arrangements... I'd expect a composite of the seniority of the angels they serve and age, making universe 1 humans seem like upstart whippersnappers indeed.

yeah... this is going to be delicate. Also, having daemons as part of the first wave of the occupation... not the smartest move to win the population, really. Could boost the relation with the baldricks, though. I wonder what was the motivation behind that.

Nematocyst wrote:

DeRogue wrote: Oh god, a contra-bass guitar.

or using a Double Bass as an acoustic.

I believe I have some pants to change.

What about something like this?

That would be Abigor sized, methinks. Then again, I have a horrible sense of proportion.

Also a 6 string bass. Might work, he could even play chords.

Eddie Van Helsing wrote:

Deebles wrote: But the secondlife humans outside the city could certainly export all manner of agricultural produce, which could be very handy for Earth's population after multiple "acts of god" have doubtless wreaked havoc on the agricultural sector.

Farming in Heaven could make organic produce dirt cheap. The place has huge tracts of land, and if there are no insects, viruses, bacteria, or fungi to blight crops, then there's little need for pesticides or other chemicals. Volcanic soil could be harvested from Hell to make the ground more fertile, if necessary. Intelligent use of portals should make it possible to get the produce to supermarkets as soon as it's been harvested.

I envision the first Heavenly market in Earth.... each stand has an exposition of its products, and in the back, there is no boxes of vegetables or fruits... there is a portal. And for a fee, the customer can walk right through the portal and choose the vegetables directly in the field.

A concept inspired by the teleyector society in the trilogy of the Hyperion Cantos...

Uncluttered wrote:

Eddie Van Helsing wrote:

Uncluttered wrote:Things to slowly introduce to the primitive screwheads in heaven (and hell)2. Bicycles:Both for screwhead use, and for export. Earth is dealing with petroleum shortages anyhow. IIRC The supply in hell hasn't ramped up yet.

You'd have to substantially redesign American cities and suburbs. Who in the US is going to want to spend more than an hour riding a bike to work? For most people, that would mean moving to within 5-15 miles of one's workplace.

You are right. No one on Earth, (and when you say America, I assume you mean to include the rest of the Earth) uses bicycles.
During fuel shortages, "Earthicans" will gladly sit at home and starve.
What the salvation was has proven, is that even an act of "God" will not get Earthicans off their asses.
There is no demand for bicycles on Earth, therefore, they have not been invented, and do not exist. QED

Dude, this ranks 10 in my 10 points Irony Scale. you might keep it friendlier there.

Eddie Van Helsing wrote:

Uncluttered wrote:You are right. No one on Earth, (and when you say America, I assume you mean to include the rest of the Earth) uses bicycles.

Your assumption is mistaken. I specifically mentioned the US in order to avoid casting aspersions of laziness upon the rest of the Earth. Ask yourself this: would you be willing to spend more than an hour getting to work? I'm talking about a two-hour round trip. It's one thing to spend an hour on the train. You can take a nap, or read, or even do some work. A one-hour commute by car is worse, since you actually have to pay attention to the road, but still tolerable IMO. An hour by bicycle is even worse, especially on hot days or during the winter.

Also, you have to keep in mind that in a car, you can cover 30-60 miles in one hour, depending on the road, traffic, and speed limit. If you've got an empty highway, a lead foot, and a casual attitude towards obeying the law, you can cover even more distance in an hour. Consider the results for the 2010 IronMan US Triathlon at Lake Placid. The bicycle portion covered a distance of 112 miles. The fastest time was 4 hours, 38 minutes, and 3 seconds. That works out to a speed of 24.1683 mph for a trained triathlete.

I am not an athlete. In my current condition, I might cover that hundred and twelve miles in six to eight hours, but don't ask me to prove it by making the attempt. Now, do you still want to tell me that people who commute two hours to work by car or train are going to want to make that commute on a bicycle?

well, i guess he meant there were people who both wont have a choice and wont have a need to go to work in a car since they live relatively near. given a choice most people would want to have freedom, which is ultimately what a car is about: freedom of movement.
Ironic that in great cities freedom can quickly change into its opposite because of its very abundance....

Eddie Van Helsing wrote:

DeRogue wrote:Oh god, a contra-bass guitar.

or using a Double Bass as an acoustic.

I believe I have some pants to change.

Or you could have Steinway & Sons come up with a specially made grand piano that has extra-wide keys, and teach Abigor to play the piano. Of course, the thought of the vassal Lord of Hell belting out Bach (or "Dancing Mad" by Nobuo Uematsu) on a really huge pipe organ is rather amusing to me.

and them have Abigor`s child play the Flight of the bumblebee on it!!

They've already made a giant guitar that is fully functional. Hell, they've made ones that are likely too big for smaller demons.

Example:

Stuart wrote:"The Chinese and Russians are joining us Sir?"

"They'll be there. Dorokov is flying in on a Mi-24. I don't know how Ti plans to arrive."

I imagine a suitably dramatic entrance--like a portal that's a little dangerous. Later to be chewed out by Patraeus. Or maybe that would be the Israelis, if they were here.

darksoul wrote:A concept inspired by the teleyector society in the trilogy of the Hyperion Cantos...

With the Farcasters? I remember that. Of course, it all fell apart when the Sysadmin had enough.

nobody_really wrote:

Stuart wrote:"The Chinese and Russians are joining us Sir?"

"They'll be there. Dorokov is flying in on a Mi-24. I don't know how Ti plans to arrive."

I imagine a suitably dramatic entrance--like a portal that's a little dangerous. Later to be chewed out by Patraeus. Or maybe that would be the Israelis, if they were here.

Glad you brought that up.
I want to thank the author for the bit on having representatives of every country in the HEA playing a part in the occupation, however nominal and symbolic. That means a lot.

darksoul wrote:yeah... this is going to be delicate. Also, having daemons as part of the first wave of the occupation... not the smartest move to win the population, really. Could boost the relation with the baldricks, though. I wonder what was the motivation behind that.

I think it was more for the angels than it was for the heavensent humans. It looked to me like a message: "You gave man to Hell, and man took Hell for his own. Now it's your turn. Don't make this any harder than it needs to be."

darksoul wrote: I wonder if the first all baldrick Metal band would be black, symphonic or death metal...
Or to sing Kumbaya holding their hands and smiling at each other in a flower field...
how`s that for shock value?

Some demons are trying to be like humans, aren't they?
Therefore, they will try to do what's popular with us, won't they?
And what's popular with us today is... Justin Bieber.

How's that for shock value?
Excuse me, ordering a truckload of brain bleach...

Awesome, I just have one minor nitpick.

Stuart wrote:a CBNR section in Fuchs armored cars.

One of my Drill Sergeants at Fort Sill was a 74D and according to him they just call them 'Fox'.

Nematocyst wrote:

darksoul wrote: I wonder if the first all baldrick Metal band would be black, symphonic or death metal...
Or to sing Kumbaya holding their hands and smiling at each other in a flower field...
how`s that for shock value?

Some demons are trying to be like humans, aren't they?
Therefore, they will try to do what's popular with us, won't they?
And what's popular with us today is... Justin Bieber.

How's that for shock value?
Excuse me, ordering a truckload of brain bleach...

fuck... don`t use it all up, I`m gonna need a lot of bleach myself...

Nematocyst wrote: Some demons are trying to be like humans, aren't they?
Therefore, they will try to do what's popular with us, won't they?
And what's popular with us today is... Justin Bieber.

You remember the old joke that goes "if a vegetarian eats vegetables, what a humanitarian eats?"
well, about the daemons that mimick humans... they can`t call themselves humanitarians, right?
i mean, that`s gonna hurt some feelings... and butts...

Eddie Van Helsing wrote:

darksoul wrote:yeah... this is going to be delicate. Also, having daemons as part of the first wave of the occupation... not the smartest move to win the population, really. Could boost the relation with the baldricks, though. I wonder what was the motivation behind that.

I think it was more for the angels than it was for the heavensent humans. It looked to me like a message: "You gave man to Hell, and man took Hell for his own. Now it's your turn. Don't make this any harder than it needs to be."

well, if that was the message, I fear it might come about too bluntly. I know words in this setting do not hold the same strength, but these are DEMONS WALKING THE STREETS OF HEAVEN. And to add insult to injury, ON A HUMAN LEASH. This is heavy stuff by all accounts. It`s awesomeness is beyond words.
Also, it shows a measure of disrespect for jellies, so patent, so painfully obvious, that it`s in itself reason enough for a upraising. It is obvious that we defeated baldricks, but we respect them as warriors. the same, we do not hold true for angels, even if they are more powerful.
Bravery is more important than power, brutality and ruthlessness is more forgivable than cowardice, deception and short sight. that`s the true message it sends.
If any angels have some courage remaining from their warring days, he probably would become a nice little spark in the insect lamp we play every time there is a human-caelis encounter.

Darksoul, if you're going to make several idiotic and generally worthless posts in a row, at least have the courtesy to combine them in one single idiotic and generally worthless post instead of spamming up the already enormous thread. Also learn to stop sucking at your typing. Don't make me start barreling.