StarDestroyer.Net BBS

ray245 wrote:

Chris OFarrell wrote:I have this memory of a picture someone posted in one of the Armegedon threads, it was a 'CNN Live' sort of picture with a bunch of soliders and an M1 looking like they were in downtown Baghdad...fighting a huge Demon.

If someone could repost it, I have to say that something along those lines would be PERFECT for the cover of this book, done well.

Is this the one you are talking about?
-IMAGE-

Now THAT is how I envision the heralds/start of the war.

ray245 wrote:Is this the one you are talking about?
img

Oh my god...

The DOW is down again! SELL SELL!

Stuart wrote:I'm certainly prepared to consider alternate suggestions (although the existing cover looks a lot better full size than the downsized version here though). However, any cover offering that uses pictures MUST - repeat MUST - use pictures that are public domain. That includes "modified" pictures. This is the real problem; the public domain requirement rules out vast stretches of pictures. For example, pretty much the only ones of military equipment we can use come out of the US Government (all USG publications are public domain. That does not apply to other countries).

I agree one can do a lot better, the only problem is I end up in jail for copyright infringement.

As others have said, you can have cover art commissioned. There's literally tons of artists on deviantart or other sites who'll do that, some quite cheap. Hell, you can ask that guy from 21st Century Warfare if his art can be used/bought. Worst thing that can happen is that he tells you to get lost.

Atlan wrote:As others have said, you can have cover art commissioned. There's literally tons of artists on deviantart or other sites who'll do that, some quite cheap. Hell, you can ask that guy from 21st Century Warfare if his art can be used/bought. Worst thing that can happen is that he tells you to get lost.

The problem is doing so within the available budget. Also, there's much more involved than just buying an existing piece of artwork; There are questions of intellectual property ownership and royalties. Commissioning a cover from a professional artist would be at least a four-figure job and probably a lot more. Also, the final product has to fit within the technical specifications of the publisher and that is not an easy thing to achieve.

Stuart wrote:

Atlan wrote:As others have said, you can have cover art commissioned. There's literally tons of artists on deviantart or other sites who'll do that, some quite cheap. Hell, you can ask that guy from 21st Century Warfare if his art can be used/bought. Worst thing that can happen is that he tells you to get lost.

The problem is doing so within the available budget. Also, there's much more involved than just buying an existing piece of artwork; There are questions of intellectual property ownership and royalties. Commissioning a cover from a professional artist would be at least a four-figure job and probably a lot more. Also, the final product has to fit within the technical specifications of the publisher and that is not an easy thing to achieve.

I thought that there are freelance artist that would do it for a much lesser figure?

You could probably get someone over at DA to do a cover for you for just a few hundred. Some of them are even quite good, too.

spartasman wrote:You could probably get someone over at DA to do a cover for you for just a few hundred. Some of them are even quite good, too.

And there are probably quite a few people on this board would be willing to donate a few dollars; for a really good cover at least. There are, what, 50? 100? regulars on this board...

There's also the increased draw of sales you get from a better cover. I would hope that your baseline of expected sales is high enough that the improved cover art would pay for itself by increasing sales further above that margin.

Stuart wrote:

Atlan wrote:As others have said, you can have cover art commissioned. There's literally tons of artists on deviantart or other sites who'll do that, some quite cheap. Hell, you can ask that guy from 21st Century Warfare if his art can be used/bought. Worst thing that can happen is that he tells you to get lost.

The problem is doing so within the available budget. Also, there's much more involved than just buying an existing piece of artwork; There are questions of intellectual property ownership and royalties. Commissioning a cover from a professional artist would be at least a four-figure job and probably a lot more. Also, the final product has to fit within the technical specifications of the publisher and that is not an easy thing to achieve.

Most of the people on DA are well below that: a few hundred is more like a top figure except for some of the professional artists that also dwell there.

For example, I'm thinking about commissioning this guy to draw me a Bolo tank. His price list shows that for really involved stuff he'll charge $ 60 and up. For that he'll do three sessions in which you can comment on the work in progress etc.
This is eminently payable. Even if the price were to double for a book cover (some artists will let you buy a piece outright, with all the rights) that's peanuts compared to professional artists.

Really, looking around on such sites as deviantart is an eyeopener. Sure there are artists there than charge a premium (and you get what you pay for) but there are surprising deals to be had. A lot of artists are students using the money to help pay for school for example. They won't charge a grand or more. As I said, you can allways talk to the guy that made the 21st Century Warfare picture, and see what he says.

sorry it took a bit longer than planned, I was going to make it as soon as I saw the comment, was distracted by the sudden intervention of reality

Perhaps I ought to start thinking better of DA.
I agree with Atlan, this dude looks tailor made for us.

Hell, I'd be happy to put $50 towards a commision for an artist on deviantART to make sure we get a cover worthy of the book!

Stuart,
Throw another $50 from me in. Also, as silly as it sounds, there are some people who I know would enjoy the series who would be turned off by a pentagram cover. And yes, that is even considering the content; I'll admit that I'd feel less comfortable lending a copy of such a book to a friend, even as irrational as that is. Even a demon on the cover would make me feel better.

I'm not working right now (substitute teacher in the summer) but I'll pitch in $20 for a good cover.

Stuart wrote:Current cover design. This is a much-downsized version and lower ppi.

Hmm. Something seems missing. This is too generic, too easily passed even with the title. You need something special here. Something new. Something that's easily identifiable as Armageddon, but doesn't scream 'Evil Occult of Doom!'

After all, the hook is Armageddon. The plot is 'Military Fights Satan'. The audience will be everyone with a passing interest in End Times stuff, especially with 2012 just around the corner. Hell, even devout Christians are gonna think it's another story about Jesus coming back and wrecking holy hell on everything, yet it will be totally different from what they expect. We're talking millions here. Millions of potential readers. Millions of potential dollars. Maybe even millions of movie proposals.

*taps virtual cigar* The thing is, Stuart, you gotta hook the folks. You gotta absolutely seize the moment and make sure people from the elderly lady down the street to the young teenager looking for a book because Dad said so are going to want to buy this book just by looking at the cover. This cover doesn't do enough justice to the story. Like I said, it's too generic. Too spooky-occult like. You want a cover that's more military-like. You want a cover that has demons fighting tanks and helicopters, throwing lightning at them and such-like, something like the covers for the John Ringo books. That sort of thing will always catch the eye.

My advice to you now would be to commission three covers (maybe from DA artists as others suggested), then choose the one that will best reflect the overall themes of "Armageddon???" (or have us SD.net people contribute to the choosing. We know best when it comes to TSW, after all ). After all, selling a book is all about marketing, marketing, marketing. Get your message across in one sweeping picture in a way that's completely unmistakeable, and the folks will be flocking to buy them.

The best idea for a cover would be something from the Battle of Hit, in my opinion. Perhaps that part with some soldiers escaping into a Bradley while it sprays a demon line with 20mm?

The current pentagram cover doesn't suit the book at all. It took me about 30 seconds to realize those were bullet holes, and the cover doesn't draw the eye. If I saw that on a shelf, I would assume it was some Christian post-apocalyptic book and walk away. It need to be unique.

Personally I really liked the idea of a group of demons seen through a HUD. It would hit you several times - first time you look, you see the demons - pretty normal. Then your eye is drawn to the HUD, and you realise it's not just a cookie-cutter fantasy demon fight, it's something special. Then you'd see missile trails and exploding demons buried in small images near the bottom and realise the demons are being fought effectively...and by that time, you've got the curiosity, and people will be reading the blurb.

IMO, of course.

Personally, I'd go for something more classic, sort of like the cover of "Catch-22". The pentagram with the goats head looks like a graphic from the video game Doom. Or get someone to make a Dante's Inferno style map of hell with all the demons and sea serpents and areas marked and have them put in military cartography symbols and arrows.

I have an idea as regards the text on the back cover, as follows:


"I, Satan Mekratig, commander of the Legions of the Damned (the text of the message from Chapter 1)...

followed by:

Humanity said "SCREW YOU!!"

Simple, direct and to the point (in a kind of 'in your face' fashion)


Your opinions?

Mike Garrity

I like Gil's idea, the battlefield map of hell...

just throwing this idea out, what does a Klein bottle actually look like in 3D?
could be something to incorporate.

Edit: went and looked...nah, scratch that. unless you got really stylised, I doubt it'd be worth incorporating

Michael Garrity wrote:I have an idea as regards the text on the back cover, as follows:


"I, Satan Mekratig, commander of the Legions of the Damned (the text of the message from Chapter 1)...

followed by:

Humanity said "SCREW YOU!!"

Simple, direct and to the point (in a kind of 'in your face' fashion)


Your opinions?

Mike Garrity

Too crude. The original works better- nothing's wrong with the back cover text except maybe the font size; it's the front cover illustration that could use some work.

Nematocyst wrote:Perhaps I ought to start thinking better of DA.
I agree with Atlan, this dude looks tailor made for us.

You know, I think the answer with DA is that there's a lousy signal-to-noise ratio. There's just so much noise that you can draw out a bit of signal from it.

Why not have the cover be a picture from the air, from one of the Predators sent through to hell, or showing the demon army in Iraq. That sort of perspective would be pretty eye-catching, showing the massive demon formations with tanks swirling around them.

GrayAnderson wrote:You know, I think the answer with DA is that there's a lousy signal-to-noise ratio. There's just so much noise that you can draw out a bit of signal from it.

Thing is the noise says 'Sonic Sonic Sonic Sonic Sonic Sonic Sonic Sonic Sonic Sonic'
But when there's signal it is just what I like to hear.

After having re-read TSW and TSW:P several times, there does seem to be some comedic potential contained therein, to wit:

"A demon walked up to me and said that it hadn't had a bite in two weeks, so I bit him"

"A demon walked up to me and asked if it could borrow twenty dollars until payday. I asked ' when's payday?' The demon said 'you should know, you're the one who's working'

"I just flew in from hell and boy, are my arms tired!!"

Q: What was the last thing that went through Satan's mind before he died?
A: Fragments of missile casing

Chuck Norris is what demons want to be when they grow up

Demons pray to Chuck Norris that he doesn't crush them like bugs

When Chuck Norris was asked his opinion about Abigor, he called Abigor 'A promising Rookie'

There are no clocks in Hell because Chuck Norris decides what time it is.

When Yah-Yah said "let there be light", Chuck Norris said 'Say Please'

The energy required to create and maintain the bubble universe in which Hell resides is roughly equalt to 1CHNRhK (one Chuck Norris Round House Kick)


The booing may now begin......

Mike Garrity