More on Terri Schiavo--UPDATE: Schiavo dead 31 Mar 05

[Enforcer Talen]

right, thats a sig.

[Jason von Evil]

Not surprisingly, I've been seeing this kind of slippery-slope thinking since the case first came into the media spotlight in '03: I saw a thread on a fundie web board entitled "Soon they'll be wanting to kill us Christians too"

I dare you to post something like "and it'll be about damn time, too!"

[Ma Deuce]

I dare you to post something like "and it'll be about damn time, too!

Well, it was 2 years ago: I doubt I could find it again if I wanted to (I don't even remember the name or URL of the board), and I was never even a member anyway...

[Wicked Pilot]

This whole thing wouldn't have happened if gays weren't allowed to marry.

[Durandal]

This whole thing wouldn't have happened if gays weren't allowed to marry.

I'm waiting to see how Shrubbie parlays this into an anti-fag rant.

[Jason von Evil]

This whole thing wouldn't have happened if gays weren't allowed to marry.

I'm waiting to see how Shrubbie parlays this into an anti-fag rant.

Shrubs seems to have dropped the whole matter. I'm waiting to see the rest of the GOP follow suit.

[Iceberg]

I find it more ironic than anything that on the three days that represent Christ's victory over the grave, people who profess to be faithful Christians are demonstrating that they are so terrified of death that they will do anything to exert control over it.

[Thanas]

When my step-father´s father, and later, his mother, were hospitalized and put on lifesupport, he was given an alternative by the doctors to keep them on lifesupport for a while longer or just cut it off and let them die. There was no real chance for any recovery and he was adviced by the doc to end it. And so he did, no fuss, no media-coverage, no court rooms, nothing. But then again, this is Norway, where such practice is ordinary and accepted, so I guess the US just can´t take a similar route...?

here in germany it would be illegal to turn off the life support even if the person herself wanted to be truned off, if i´m not misstaken.

IIRC, he has to have his wish written down, before the situation presents itself. And it is only legal if there is no hope for recovery.

[Durandal]

I find it more ironic than anything that on the three days that represent Christ's victory over the grave, people who profess to be faithful Christians are demonstrating that they are so terrified of death that they will do anything to exert control over it.

God help us all if she dies on Easter Sunday.

[Elfdart]

I think it's kind of funny that guy like Pat Buchanan with a lifetime hardon for fascists and Nazis would try to play the Nazi card.

http://mediamatters.org/items/200503220003

This is the same Pat Buchanan who wrote a column in the New York Post claiming that Jews could not possibly have been gassed at Treblinka.

Could this be a backhanded compliment to Schiavo? Or is Buchanan being a dick?

[Iceberg]

A conservative being hypocritical in the national media? Heaven forbid!

[The Yosemite Bear]

I find it more ironic than anything that on the three days that represent Christ's victory over the grave, people who profess to be faithful Christians are demonstrating that they are so terrified of death that they will do anything to exert control over it.

God help us all if she dies on Easter Sunday.

then we wait three days for her blue jedi ghost to appear or not

[Captain Cyran]

I find it more ironic than anything that on the three days that represent Christ's victory over the grave, people who profess to be faithful Christians are demonstrating that they are so terrified of death that they will do anything to exert control over it.

God help us all if she dies on Easter Sunday.

then we wait three days for her blue jedi ghost to appear or not

And if she sees her shadow, We get 8 more years of government hypocricy.

[Stravo]

A nice summary of what we've seen so far...

Schiavo parents appeal to federal court again
Florida governor faces increasing pressure to step in
Friday, March 25, 2005 Posted: 11:18 AM EST (1618 GMT)



ATLANTA, Georgia (CNN) -- Hours after a federal judge denied an emergency request from the parents of Terri Schiavo to have her feeding tube reinserted, attorneys took their case back to the 11th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals.

It is the second time this week the circuit court has been asked to overturn the rulings of U.S. District Court Judge James Whittemore.

Schiavo's parents, Bob and Mary Schindler, say their daughter's due process rights have been violated.

After a special law passed early Monday by Congress, they took their case to federal court.

The Schindlers had their motion denied by Whittemore and an appeals panel. The full appeals court and the U.S. Supreme Court then refused to get involved in the case.

The Schindlers went back to Whittemore on Thursday night, arguing he ignored evidentiary issues the first time.

Friday morning, Whittemore denied the latest appeal.

Legal experts say there is little chance the three-judge panel in Atlanta will side with the Schindlers. It is unclear if the panel will consist of the same three judges that denied the parents' previous appeal by a 2-1 vote.

Schiavo, who is severely brain damaged, is in her seventh day without food or water since Pinellas County Circuit Judge George Greer ordered the tube removed for the third time.

Schiavo's feeding tube was removed March 18 after a years-long fight by her husband, Michael Schiavo, who has argued she had said, before her illness, that she would not want to continue living if she were in such a condition.

Schiavo's parents have fought to have the feeding tube restored. They argue that their daughter never made such a right-to-die declaration and that she would not want to be, in their words, "starved to death."

The tube had been removed twice before -- for two days in 2001 and six days in 2003.

State court setbacks
In another setback for the parents Thursday, Greer rejected a request to hear new medical testimony from a doctor who disagrees with the prevailing diagnosis that Schiavo is in a "persistent vegetative state." Greer also barred state authorities from taking Schiavo into their custody. (Full story)

Schiavo's parents have said that in the 23 decisions against them, judges have not considered all the facts and, in fact, are joining forces in what Bob Schindler called a "crusade to kill" his daughter.

Schiavo has been hospitalized, bedridden and unable to speak or feed herself since 1990, when she suffered heart failure linked to an eating disorder. The courts have consistently agreed with doctors hired by Michael Schiavo and appointed by the court who have concluded that the 41-year-old woman is in a persistent vegetative state.

But Dr. William Cheshire, a neurologist at the Mayo Clinic-Jacksonville, examined Schiavo's medical records and watched videotapes provided by her parents and concluded she was "most likely in a state of minimal consciousness."

Based on that diagnosis, Florida Gov. Jeb Bush ordered the state Department of Children and Families to make a new effort to intervene in the case on Wednesday.

Greer rebuffed those efforts in a series of rulings on Thursday, and the state Supreme Court rejected an appeal of that decision Thursday evening.

The justices have declined five previous opportunities to get involved in the issue, including an effort by a congressional committee to place Schiavo under federal protection through a subpoena.

Meanwhile, Schindler supporters were planning an all-day Good Friday prayer vigil at the Florida governor's mansion as part of an effort to persuade Bush to intervene, despite his comments Thursday that he cannot overstep his gubernatorial powers.

Bush -- the brother of President Bush -- has taken action in the past, prodding the state legislature to pass laws, later found unconstitutional, to keep her alive. He tried again Wednesday, but the state Senate defeated the attempt.

Differing descriptions of Terri
George Felos, the attorney for Schiavo's husband, said Michael Schiavo is at his wife's bedside, where he has been since shortly after her feeding tube was removed last Friday.

The Schindlers visited their daughter in the Pinellas Park hospice where she lay Thursday afternoon. Terry said Mary Schindler became "physically ill" during the visit and had to leave the hospital room.

"The family said she (Terri Schiavo) is gaunt ... her voice is very weak. Her breathing appears to be somewhat struggled," he said.

Brother Paul O'Donnell, a spiritual adviser for the Schindlers, said their "hope is dimming."

"They're very disappointed," he said. "They're in shock. They can't believe this is happening. They hope the governor is going to do something, but this is a severe blow when Terri's life hangs in the balance."

But Michael Schiavo's brother, Brian, said his sister-in-law appeared "peaceful" on her seventh day without nutrition.

"She's lying there. Sometimes her mouth is agape," he said. "She's not too different from when I saw her the day before."

Brian Schiavo said she appears "withdrawn," but "she is not in pain."

Tight security
Protesters, most of them supporting the Schindlers, have gathered outside the hospice where security has been tight.

Law enforcement officials detonated a backpack Thursday night that was leaning against the federal courthouse where Whittemore was conducting the latest hearing. The woman who had left the pack later said that there was nothing dangerous in it.

Also Thursday night, police arrested an Illinois man they said robbed a Seminole, Florida, gun store as part of an attempt to "rescue Terri Schiavo."

Michael W. Mitchell, 20, faces charges of attempted armed robbery, aggravated assault and criminal mischief, said Marianne Pasha, spokeswoman for the Pinellas County Sheriff's Office.

My favorite bullshit statement in this article was teri's dad:

Schiavo's parents have said that in the 23 decisions against them, judges have not considered all the facts and, in fact, are joining forces in what Bob Schindler called a "crusade to kill" his daughter.

Yes, jackass, if 23 Judicial decisions go against you it MUST be a conspiracy and not that your position is untenable. Asshole.

They are appealing again based on Due Process violations. She's gotten Due Process in fucking spades. How many fucking appeals? How many fucking court cases? How many interventions, presidents rushing from vacations, unconstitutional laws being passed for a single person? That's Due Process and then some.

[Darth Wong]

There's a fundie jackass idiot (the fatheaded Michael Coren) up here on talk radio in Toronto who's been playing the Nazi card for more than a week already. Most of the people who call into his show disagree with him, but still he goes on.

Unlike the American fundies, however, this guy is a cloying little shitstain. He doesn't rant and rave; instead, he makes these sarcastic little comments without ever growing the balls to come right out and say what he's thinking in plain English. An example of his bullshit:

It is interesting, isn't it? Throughout history, there have always been people who were willing to decide for others whether their lives were worth living. Hitler, Pol Pot, Stalin, the list goes on. Not trying to say anything here about the Shiavo case, just making an interesting observation.

Honestly, the guy makes me want to vomit. The only thing worse than a raving fanatic is a raving fanatic who puts a fucking disclaimer on his bullshit but clearly intends to say exactly the same thing as the wild-eyed lunatic on the streetcorner.

[The Yosemite Bear]

and considering her anorexia was what caused this in the first place, then idiots your child probably did want to starve to death for attention....

[Iceberg]

She's had a giant heaping portion of Due Process, slathered with Special Due Process sauce, with a big side of Due Process Fries, a 44-ounce super-jumbo Due Process-a-Cola and for dessert a little Due Process Pie. If there is ANYTHING Terri Schiavo has had, it is a scrupulously fair and extensive series of hearings under the law.

[Jason von Evil]

She's had a giant heaping portion of Due Process, slathered with Special Due Process sauce, with a big side of Due Process Fries, a 44-ounce super-jumbo Due Process-a-Cola and for dessert a little Due Process Pie. If there is ANYTHING Terri Schiavo has had, it is a scrupulously fair and extensive series of hearings under the law.

Don't forgot a heaping helping of trampled state rights.

[Thinkmarble]

here in germany it would be illegal to turn off the life support even if the person herself wanted to be truned off, if i´m not misstaken.

IIRC, he has to have his wish written down, before the situation presents itself. And it is only legal if there is no hope for recovery.

Salm, you are mistaken.
And Thanas you are wrong.
Had the situation in the family last year.
The situation was hopeless, so the decision were made in the family to stop medical care.
No wish, or anything was written down.

Made a short google search.
Seems to be the case that when the patient is not able to consent and no living will exists it is in the responsibility of the doctor to decide if life sustaining measures are undertaken or stopped.
He has to base his decision on the assumed will of the patient, and to this end has to question relatives and friends of the patient.

[Jason von Evil]

I'm giggling at the reprucussions this'll have for the GOP come election time.

[Chmee]

I'm giggling at the reprucussions this'll have for the GOP come election time.

Too bad it won't be within the 15-second attention span of the voters who swing elections these days ....

[Darth Wong]

I'm giggling at the reprucussions this'll have for the GOP come election time.

Too bad it won't be within the 15-second attention span of the voters who swing elections these days ....

The fundie lemmings will remember. And I guarantee you that the Republican apologists on this board will go right back to their "don't be alarmist, they're not really fundie appeasers" arguments despite this irrefutable proof to the contrary.

[Thanas]

here in germany it would be illegal to turn off the life support even if the person herself wanted to be truned off, if i´m not misstaken.

IIRC, he has to have his wish written down, before the situation presents itself. And it is only legal if there is no hope for recovery.

Salm, you are mistaken.
And Thanas you are wrong.
Had the situation in the family last year.
The situation was hopeless, so the decision were made in the family to stop medical care.
No wish, or anything was written down.

Made a short google search.
Seems to be the case that when the patient is not able to consent and no living will exists it is in the responsibility of the doctor to decide if life sustaining measures are undertaken or stopped.
He has to base his decision on the assumed will of the patient, and to this end has to question relatives and friends of the patient.

You're right. Since this is considered "passive Sterbehilfe". However, "akive" is forbidden.

[Atlan]

She's had a giant heaping portion of Due Process, slathered with Special Due Process sauce, with a big side of Due Process Fries, a 44-ounce super-jumbo Due Process-a-Cola and for dessert a little Due Process Pie. If there is ANYTHING Terri Schiavo has had, it is a scrupulously fair and extensive series of hearings under the law.

Don't forgot a heaping helping of trampled state rights.

With a Due Process cherry on top!

[Jason von Evil]

She's had a giant heaping portion of Due Process, slathered with Special Due Process sauce, with a big side of Due Process Fries, a 44-ounce super-jumbo Due Process-a-Cola and for dessert a little Due Process Pie. If there is ANYTHING Terri Schiavo has had, it is a scrupulously fair and extensive series of hearings under the law.

Don't forgot a heaping helping of trampled state rights.

With a Due Process cherry on top!

Man, talk about a case of the shits. Better wear a diaper or get ready to wash your pants twice.