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Stas Bush wrote:And that satellite up there is a temporary thing; we will find means to destroy it since it's a clear threat.

Never got out of the air, Stas. Blew up in midair; and killed all on the An-124 too.

Tossing 120 tons of cryogenics out the back of a airlifter at 0.8 mach is a very tricky business...

Whatever. He thinks MESS Agency can just cut down launch corners and get shitloads of hardware into space when we spend hideous sums on space. This was not going to stand, and I think it was clear from day one.

He actually has MEO boosters; production terms for first Proton class (roughly) launchers or Yamal from Soyuz family class start off around 4-5 months when in test phase and later run down to 1 month or so - it's the end XX century after all

Tensions officially defused

The MESS won't look like the bad guys for starting a war? In what universe?

And the Prometheus LV was tested. Announcing we successfully tossed a ballasted bunch of tanks out the back end of an aircraft isn't very exciting. Declaring that the system didn't work, and in fact killed everyone isn't a wise idea, though this is the OOC thread, so nothing in here in fact takes place.

Beowulf wrote:Announcing we successfully tossed a ballasted bunch of tanks out the back end of an aircraft isn't very exciting

Ballasted with what? Sand?

The MESS won't look like the bad guys for starting a war? In what universe?

In what universe? Beowulf, did you see the last Israel-Lebanon war?

"We missile you" "We kick the shit out of you" "YOU'RE EVIL JOOZ"

That's what escalating response brings. If we attack and sink your Navy (which in case of war we will, or at least will try), that would look like us over-reacting? If we, moreover, bomb your cities, we will look like Nazi wannabes who launch a full war over some innocent missile strike aganst what you could call "terrorist weapon", "WMD threat" or whatever.

Declaring that the system didn't work, and in fact killed everyone isn't a wise idea, though this is the OOC thread, so nothing in here in fact takes place.

How about the sat and rocket being wasted?

We want to keep it spysat free, Beowulf; if it like orbits up there we will eventually strike it and it will lead to a new Act of War Proximity.

Want taht? Me sure as hell no.

MKSheppard wrote:

Beowulf wrote:Announcing we successfully tossed a ballasted bunch of tanks out the back end of an aircraft isn't very exciting

Ballasted with what? Sand?

Water's a fairly good density match to what most of the tanks would be holding. Not perfect, but probably good enough. I'm not an aerospace engineer. But then, neither is anyone else playing this game. The hydrogen tanks would probably end up pressurized with some dense gas. *shrug*

Beowulf wrote:Water's a fairly good density match to what most of the tanks would be holding.

That would only be the first stage of tests, you realize? To simply ensure that the missile can ensue a clean separation from the aircraft without bouncing back into it or being caught by the airstream....

more comprehensive tests would follow; including live drops of fully fuelled missiles from drone-controlled aircraft to see if a fully fuelled missile can withstand the aerodynamic pressures of launch and stabilizing in midair for engine ignition without breaking up and going "boom".

Some AN-124 Air Launch Specs for |Beowulf.

Safety of the carrier plane is maintained by a 5-second freefall launch delay on the first stage booster from the plane, which ensures a 200 m distance. Various variants of emergency are analyzed; the rocket launch abortion and the return to airfield (in this case fuel components are dumped

So, you need a freefall delay before the rocket boosts. Else the whole shebang blows up.

This also puts some limits on system.

But that's the way it work.

Dudes. Why do we need to build a new launch facility when we can just use Blackadder's?

Jesus, I go to sleep for the night and there's this huge blow-up in OOC...dang!

PeZookia decides to ignore this for now, and shall instead commence development of the ISCA idea.

ISCA MEMBER NATIONS/SHIPYARD CAPACITY

Duchy of Langley

Shroomania (18*15k DWT monthly) - shroom, you're way bigger than a mere five construction docks.

Duchy of Baerne

II Republic of PeZookia (4*15k DWT monthly)

Shinra Republic (probably similar to shroomania in capacity)

Some more details:

All member nations should declare how much money they pay in to the program ; ISCA will use that money for R&D. prototyping and shipyard expansion in smaller ISCA nations.

ALL ISCA members get to order ships at cost ; Orders from outside ISCA get a 10% profit margin.

I'm still thinking about the model of distributing that profit to member nations ; Any ideas?

Now, PeZookia is filled with an FCS order from Stas, so it will be pretty much out of ISCA for FY2009, but we'll pay in 40 million USD. We also won't be taking any profit for ourselves, since our own FCS order covers that for now.

Oh, and since Duchy of Langley decided to join ISCA, they won't have to pay 150 mil for the FCS license.

Please post your shipyard capacities and any orders you have pegged, so that ISCA can start operating promptly.

Jesus, I go to sleep for the night and there's this huge blow-up in OOC...dang!

You just missed our closest Carribean Crisis analogue. Nothing bad about it, since most of the stress fell on OMSK and MESS nation leaders. Neutrals were not affected by the Space Row.

Dudes. Why do we need to build a new launch facility when we can just use Blackadder's?

You think the MESS would let it fly? The facility will be on Blackadder sovereign territory; Blackadder is part of OMSK pact. Which means in case of another tension row, we can cut it, capture it, whatever, and we could also bribe/ otherwise corrupt personnel there, pressure them to launch space weapons and hires spies into LEO.

A point of true neutrality for unmanned space apparate LEO beaming is needed. Since it's LEO, a small booster will suffice; larger boosters wll be used by nations own Space Programmes; and the whole thing would be like a neutral Sea Launch facility on an artificial platform.

BTW we're exporting more food stuffs, and more adult beverages.

So... Shroomania has.... ten shipyards?

[5 FCS for Shroomania
3 for Shinra
2 ACVs for Coyote
(this isn't including what I can muster by rallying the FUNGAL AXIS nations)]

I guess it's only right if Shroomania pays, like, 100mil USD?

I'm doing the write-up for ISCA in Alliances right now.

Also, I'd need a restatement of all ship orders and member contributions, so that I can write them into ISCA's FY2009 budget

Shroomania is willing to expand its ship-building facilities to other FUNGAL AXIS nations as well.

Okay, the ISCA writeup in Alliances is done.

Guys, I will need ACV DWT tonnage and construction costs if I'm to assign the production orders.

So...we'll need more orders for FY2009.

A LOT more orders.

Even my Technocracy order will be halfway done before FY2009 comes about, so PeZookian yards will be free for 6 months.

How many did the Red Technocracy order? (Four...right?)

I'm not totally acquainted with the scale of the whole thing...

Shroom Man 777 wrote:How many did the Red Technocracy order? (Four...right?)

Fifty seven.

I figures a good shipyard can make one per month per construction dock. I'm gonna convert it to DWT tonnage, though, because it makes it easier to assign shipyard capacity with Excel

Shroom Man 777 wrote:I'm not totally acquainted with the scale of the whole thing...

Then you better get started, because we have lots of excess capacity.

Unless you want to use some for domestic purposes rather than ISCA stuff

Fortunately, ISCA will really get going in FY2009, so we've got some time to figure everything out.

Shit. So I could easily accommodate RI and Coyote's orders? Goddamn, and I was freaking out 'cause I thought I didn't have the capacity... Mang.

EDIT:

So I really UNDERESTIMATED my ship-building capacities.

So I'm gonna assume I have 12 shipyards. So...

10 ACVs for Coyote.

30 for Shinra (not 3!)

I'm gonna boost mine to 50. To match the Red Technocracy's 57.

And... 20 FCS' for Shep's military? (unless his military intends to ship more stuff than the commercial sector of other countries)

Okay, a slight rearrangement of production capacities:

After some brief research, I figured the best country to compare a Kingdom to would be Poland: similar GDP, and we also have a shipbuilding industry.

We have three shipyards overall: Gdansk, Gdynia and Szczecin.

Gdansk has three slipways, Gdynia has two drydocks, and Szczecin has three more slipways.

Of course, slipways aren't everything: most ships are actually built on land these days, and only assembled in a drydock or on a slipway.

So we can expect a kingdom to have eight construction docks of various kinds, plus some refurbishment assets. But these slipways are really, really fucking huge, and the FCS is pretty small, so we could safely assume that two FCS-type 15k tonners could easily be built in one such huge slipway.

So, overall, I can assume a Kingdom has the capacity to build 16 FCS-sized ships simultaenously, or roughly 240 thousand tonnes at the same time.

As for how much capacity should a principality have...I honestly don't know. It obviously doesn't scale linearly, so I'm open to input from all concerned nations

I say we ignore the particulars of construction and just assign "DWT capacity" based on this preliminary analysis, even if we get to building huge VLCCs we can just say Shroomania can build one at a time, no matter if it actually has a dock big enough.

Agreed?

Agreed. What's the closest real-life analogue to an FCS anyway?

EDIT:

So I really UNDERESTIMATED my ship-building capacities.

So I'm gonna assume I have 12 shipyards. So...

10 ACVs for Coyote.

30 for Shinra (not 3!)

I'm gonna boost mine to 50. To match the Red Technocracy's 57.

And... 20 FCS' for Shep's military? (unless his military intends to ship more stuff than the commercial sector of other countries)

[Hrm... we're gonna start integrating ACV technologies into the FCS pretty soon, rite?]

Shroom Man 777 wrote:Agreed. What's the closest real-life analogue to an FCS anyway?

Well, a lightweight freighter. The FCS is just fast and modular

Thing is, IRL distances involved are huge, so it's more economical to ship large amounts of stuff on a single ship. SD.net world is pretty small right now, so small fast ships are more flexible.

EDIT:

So I really UNDERESTIMATED my ship-building capacities.

What we need is a tally of all production orders, and then we assign them based on capacity.

[Hrm... we're gonna start integrating ACV technologies into the FCS pretty soon, rite?]

Yeah...I figure we can just assign a budget to this project via the ISCA, and then assume it will take about 0.5-1 year to complete this new and awesome ship

We also need to design some larger ships, so that we can counter Wilkonia and claim the market share, yo!

Wow, you got serious stuff going there, man!

I'll settle for trading with Arik, probably some Special Economic Zone around the Future Bridge, and trade with you guys in the Central Sea. And with Shep.

Oh, and we WILL tax yor ships once we complete the Great Future Brigde (25 bil paid by me, 25 bil by Arik) and install shiplocks.

Stas Bush wrote: Oh, and we WILL tax yor ships once we complete the Great Future Brigde (25 bil paid by me, 25 bil by Arik) and install shiplocks.

Sure, man. I'm okay with that.

...especially since I'm just building them