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Raj Ahten wrote:First I'm sorry to say, Indhopal will not be giving funds to FASTA. All that money is going to military satellites instead. So basically San Dorado is going to get an infusion of several billion and Indhopal's researchers for their program.

Sweet. We're more than happy to have you aboard!

Also for the FTO joint naval and air command, these were pretty much liked by everyone so its time to set them up. I see it mainly as a staff thing that smoothes out deployment issues when the FTO militaries work together. So basically we all just have to say we are participating in it and maybe run some exercises and so forth.

Sounds good to me; San Dorado is willing to contribute two destroyers, a frigate and a battalion of marines to FTO JNAC, as well as a squadron of Mirage 2000-5 Mark 2 multirole fighters.

I propose we set our HQ up in one of the cities on the eastern Indhopali coast: there ought to be infrastructure present there already, it allows for swift projection of power into the oceans east of Frequesue (which to me looks like we should expect most difficulties to sail through) and with all those wee little islands off the coast we should be fairly sheltered there (and the FTO could base all kinds of interesting defences on said islands).

Hmm.. I smell historical ironies in Marina's post.

Are the FTO nations going isolationist?

Feh, the SNC would have the PRSF demilitarize anyway. The idea behind us guaranteeing their independence is exatcly to allow them to disband most of their bloated military, so that they actually have a chance of getting their economy in order.

PeZook wrote:Feh, the SNC would have the PRSF demilitarize anyway. The idea behind us guaranteeing their independence is exatcly to allow them to disband most of their bloated military, so that they actually have a chance of getting their economy in order.

But this does have to either strain MESS/SNC relations, or if the other MESS members disapprove of Tian Xia's harsh behavior, strain internal MESS relations.

Steve wrote:

PeZook wrote:Feh, the SNC would have the PRSF demilitarize anyway. The idea behind us guaranteeing their independence is exatcly to allow them to disband most of their bloated military, so that they actually have a chance of getting their economy in order.

But this does have to either strain MESS/SNC relations, or if the other MESS members disapprove of Tian Xia's harsh behavior, strain internal MESS relations.

I think within the MESS, we regard it as ... Tian Xia's internal matter. With regard to the propaganda, it is mostly targeted at ex-colonial nations. In all technicality, the Old Continent has ex-colonials, but they have more or less accepted as equals, and there is common consensus that we either work together, or we screw up.

Within the SNC, we would have done something to demilitarize PRSF anyhow. From my point of view, PRSF fired first, so to some extent, they were responsible for their own problems. So tough luck.

On the other hand, since Stas had his fleet stuck his nose in, I am not so sure how I am supposed to react. I am saddling between two ends now, and just keeping my mouth shut while any words of power fly over me, only stepping in when they go out of control.

So with this defector situation, exactly which assets are going where?

A question to those who may know more about these sort of matters than I: what would be the ramifications if the FTO issued the rogue PRSF elements fleeing to its ports and airfields a sort of 'letter of marque and reprisal', turning them into privateers for the collective FTO?

(I'm asking mainly because, well face it, the idea of a privateer carrier loose on the high seas is awesome.)

As far as I can see it would obviously make the FTO collectively responsible for the actions of said privateer taskforce... But are there any mega-important legal ramifications that I'm missing?

(And of course this is 110% hypothetical at this point; it's just something that popped into my head just now, I haven't really given its much thought and don't know how my fellow FTO members think about issueing a letter of marque to the guys we were thinking of bombing just days ago...)

X-15B rides again!

SiegeTank wrote:A question to those who may know more about these sort of matters than I: what would be the ramifications if the FTO issued the rogue PRSF elements fleeing to its ports and airfields a sort of 'letter of marque and reprisal', turning them into privateers for the collective FTO?

(I'm asking mainly because, well face it, the idea of a privateer carrier loose on the high seas is awesome.)

As far as I can see it would obviously make the FTO collectively responsible for the actions of said privateer taskforce... But are there any mega-important legal ramifications that I'm missing?

(And of course this is 110% hypothetical at this point; it's just something that popped into my head just now, I haven't really given its much thought and don't know how my fellow FTO members think about issueing a letter of marque to the guys we were thinking of bombing just days ago...)

Depending on who they attacked, either nothing would happen, or somebody will be by to kick your asses shortly thereafter. They may or may not try to be diplomatic about it first.

Legalities aside (since I'm no expert on that) the above is probably what would happen if you did so.

At any rate, who are you at war with again? IIRC, privateers are generally authorized only to attack speicific countries with whom their "home" nation is at war. So if they attack somebody it's either a sign you're at war with them, or out and out piracy.

From Wiki:
The privateer was distinguished by the legal framework it operated in—authorized to attack enemy shipping and be treated as prisoners of war if captured. If war was not declared, or if the privateer preyed on neutral shipping, the privateer might well be treated as a pirate by the enemy.

SiegeTank wrote:A question to those who may know more about these sort of matters than I: what would be the ramifications if the FTO issued the rogue PRSF elements fleeing to its ports and airfields a sort of 'letter of marque and reprisal', turning them into privateers for the collective FTO?

(I'm asking mainly because, well face it, the idea of a privateer carrier loose on the high seas is awesome.)

As far as I can see it would obviously make the FTO collectively responsible for the actions of said privateer taskforce... But are there any mega-important legal ramifications that I'm missing?

(And of course this is 110% hypothetical at this point; it's just something that popped into my head just now, I haven't really given its much thought and don't know how my fellow FTO members think about issueing a letter of marque to the guys we were thinking of bombing just days ago...)

We'd probably get our asses kicked by whomever the privateers attacked. I wouldn't do it.

The thing is, it'd be a bloody waste to leave that carrier to rust in some random port. But yeah, it probably wouldn't work as a traditional privateer... Perhaps more as a sort of hired mercenary fleet, a naval element that's paid for by the FTO, but not actually part of any member nation's fleet (but wouldn't go around plundering civvie shipping)... Hmm.

SiegeTank wrote:The thing is, it'd be a bloody waste to leave that carrier to rust in some random port. But yeah, it probably wouldn't work as a traditional privateer... Perhaps more as a sort of hired mercenary fleet, a naval element that's paid for by the FTO, but not actually part of any member nation's fleet (but wouldn't go around plundering civvie shipping)... Hmm.

Well if we end up keeping these ships (and if we end up with carrier) it could the permanent flagship of the joint FTO armada or something.

Raj Ahten wrote: Well if we end up keeping these ships (and if we end up with carrier) it could the permanent flagship of the joint FTO armada or something.

I like this idea, if we end up keeping them and getting the carrier.



Sleep than a catch-up post.
A long one.

Stas Bush wrote:Oh, Czech, you think that making fun of a power which could steamroll your little nation were you not a pitful colony of Beowulf, is clever?

We will note now that my military is not the one falling apart and fleeing for safety to members of the FTO. My nation is not the one that was couped by Crimson naval infantry and is now under a barely-functional junta. My nation is not the one currently being bombed until it officially surrenders.

Also, as a note, I probably could've taken them alone. Beowulf's involvement was calculated and limited, and is just the first part of a long-term plan. I took the casualties on land, at sea, and in the air, and my army, without any help from the freshly-arrived and lightly-equipped Tian Xian paratroopers, harried and heavily attrited the PRSF's army all the way home. You'd be amazed what elan can accomplish.

I think I can mock the PRSF as much as I goddamn well please, thank you very much.

A more cynical POV might be that you had the PRSF invade you (OOC of course) to provide the excuse to surrender your established sovereignty to Tian Xia and in the process do a delightful end-run around the rest of the MESS, which was IIRC not looking to expand its membership when you went to them and asked.

SiegeTank wrote:The thing is, it'd be a bloody waste to leave that carrier to rust in some random port. But yeah, it probably wouldn't work as a traditional privateer... Perhaps more as a sort of hired mercenary fleet, a naval element that's paid for by the FTO, but not actually part of any member nation's fleet (but wouldn't go around plundering civvie shipping)... Hmm.

Then how would it pay for itself? No, assimilation into a member navy is the way to go. I'd be more than happy to handle it; Baerne is supposed to be fairly militaristic.

Speaking of which, the Joint FTO Navy can have two of my cruisers, five destroyers, and two frigates. Also two SSNs.

Here's the deal with the PRSF assets Tian Xia demanded: I wouldn't be keeping them. I'd be selling them to the highest bidder. However, anything that runs, I will try to destroy. Ships can't run very fast.

Steve wrote:I'm not sure if there's any plan for operating NPCs, though the western chains nearest your islands you can feel free to populate with polities of your own creation, IMHO.

If that's so, then here's my rough proposal for a polity to occupy Velaria's northwestern islands:

The Democratic People's Republic of Santa Lobelia

INSIGNIA

Roundel



PEOPLE

Population: 36 million
Languages: English (official), French, Spanish
Literacy: 86% total population

GOVERNMENT

Country name: The Democratic People's Republic of Santa Lobelia
Government type: Totalitarian dictatorship
Capital: Tourane
Suffrage: n/a
Executive Branch: Head of state and government: His Excellency, President for Life, Field Marshal Doctor Kyoya Ohtori, Lord of All the Beasts of the Earth and Fishes of the Seas and Conqueror of the Shroomanian Empire in Velaria in General and Santa Lobelia in Particular; Cabinet: Appointed by President
Legislative Branch: Nonexistent, dissolved by executive order
Judicial Branch: Supreme Court (all justices are appointed by the President)

ECONOMY

Gross domestic product: Approx. US$175 billion
GDP per capita: Approx. US$4,800
GDP growth rate: Approx. 1%
Major industries: Agriculture, illegal pharmaceuticals, mercenaries, prostitution
Minor industries: Firearms, mining, tourism
Major exports: Cocaine, marijuana, mercenaries, opiates, prostitutes
Minor exports: Firearms, ore

MILITARY

Military branches: Army, Air Force, Navy
Military spending as percent of GDP: Approx. 20%
Military service age and obligation: Universal male conscription upon reaching age of 18; conscripts serve three years before volunteering for further service, joining the reserves, or getting discharged; women aged 21-50 eligible for volunteer service
Individual arms:

Pistols: Beretta 92FS, Walther P5
Shotguns: Franchi SPAS-12
Submachine guns: Beretta M12, Walther MP
Assault and battle rifles: Various AK-47 derivatives [AK-74M, AKM, AKS-74U, Norinco Type 56 most commonly encountered and issued; limited quantities of Kbk wz. 1988 Tantal, Valmet Rk 62, Valmet Rk 95 TP (issued only to marines, presidential guard, and elite infantry)]
Sniper rifles: Dragunov SVD, Mosin-Nagant M1891/30, Zastava M93 Black Arrow
Machine guns: DShK, KPV, NSV, RPD, RPKM, RPK-74M, Valmet M78
Grenade launchers: AGS-17, GP-30
Anti-tank weapons: M40 recoilless rifle, M67 recoilless rifle, RPG-7, Type 69 RPG
Mortars: Ordinance ML 3 inch mortar
MANPADS: Blowpipe, Strela-2

Santa Lobelian People's Army

Active Service

4 light infantry brigades [conscript training and equipment]
2 motorized infantry brigades [conscript training and vehicles (BTR-70)]
3 mechanized infantry brigades [conscript training and equipment (BMP-2)]
2 light armor brigades [conscript training, Third World equipment (PT-76)]
1 heavy armor brigade [conscript training and equipment (T-72)]
1 heliborne assault brigade [conscript training and equipment (Mil Mi-2 Hoplite, Mil Mi-6 Hook, Mil Mi-8 Hip, Mil Mi-24 Hind)]
1 presidential guard battalion [light infantry, legacy/guards training, professional equipment]
1 elite infantry battalion [light infantry, elite infantry training, professional equipment]

Reserves

8 light infantry brigades [conscript training and equipment]
4 motorized infantry brigades [conscript training and vehicles (BTR-70)]
6 mechanized infantry brigades [conscript training and equipment (BMP-2)]
4 light armor brigades [conscript training, Third World equipment (PT-76)]
2 heavy armor brigades [conscript training and equipment (T-72)]
1 heliborne assault brigade [conscript training and equipment (Mil Mi-2 Hoplite, Mil Mi-6 Hook, Mil Mi-8 Hip, Mil Mi-24 Hind)]

Other Weapons Systems

Armored cars: BRDM-2
Towed artillery: D-30 122 mm howitzer, D-20 152 mm howitzer
Self-propelled artillery: 2S1 Gvozdika, 2S3 Akatsiya, ASU-85
Rocket artillery: FROG-7, RM-70
Anti-air artillery: ZPU-4, ZSU-23-4, ZSU-57-2, ZU-23-2
Anti-air missiles: Bristol Bloodhound, S-75 Dvina, S-125

Santa Lobelia People's Air Force

96 x Chengdu J-7 [64 x F-7P Skybolt, 32 x FT-7P Skybolt]
48 x Dassault Mirage III [32 x Mirage IIIE, 16 x Mirage IIIR]
24 x Mikoyan MiG-29 Fulcrum [16 x MiG-29B-12 Fulcrum-A, 8 x MiG-29UB-12 Fulcrum-A]
96 x Northrop F-5 [64 x F-5E Tiger II, 32 x F-5F Tiger II]
48 x Sukhoi Su-7 Fitter-A [32 x Su-7BMK, 16 x Su-7UMK]
24 x Sukhoi Su-22 Fitter [16 x Su-22M4K Fitter-K, 8 x Su-22UM3K Fitter-G]
4 x Ilyushin Il-76 Candid
8 x Antonov An-12 Cub
8 x Antonov An-26 Curl
32 x Aero L-29 Delfín
32 x Aero L-39 Albatros

Santa Lobelia People's Navy

Ships

1 x Moskva class helicopter carrier
2 x Ropucha class landing ship
4 x Polocny class landing ship
2 x Koni class frigate
4 x Petya class frigate
8 x Pauk class corvette
8 x Tarantul class corvette
16 x Nanuchka class corvette
32 x Osa II class missile boat
4 x Foxtrot class submarine
2 x Kilo class submarine

Aircraft

4 x Ilyushin Il-38 May
48 x Kamov Ka-25 Hormone
16 x Mil Mi-14 Haze

Naval Infantry

1800 combat infantry [concript training, professional equipment]
30 x BMP-2
30 x BTR-70
15 x T-72
12 x ZSU-23-4
16 x ASU-85
6 x Mil Mi-6 Hook
24 x Mil Mi-8 Hip
12 x Mil Mi-24 Hind

*chucks gauntlet down elevator shaft*

Beowulf wrote:Here's the deal with the PRSF assets Tian Xia demanded: I wouldn't be keeping them. I'd be selling them to the highest bidder. However, anything that runs, I will try to destroy. Ships can't run very fast.

You should sell them to Klavostan's mercenaries. Give them a mercenary carrier! Hahahaha!

I'd be willing to buy the carrier, should you wind up with it and not the FTO.

Master_Baerne wrote:I'd be willing to buy the carrier, should you wind up with it and not the FTO.

Well, according to Marina's mod proclaimation, the carrier is "running" for safety, which isn't really safety at all.

Master_Baerne wrote:I'd be willing to buy the carrier, should you wind up with it and not the FTO.

I think maybe the FTO should purchase it, with money pooled from all the FTO nations, allowing it to be FTO hardware only, with no national affiliation.

yeah, the PRSF ships have to escape waters patrolled by TXN and TJN ships. some will escape though.

There is potential for the carrier to put in at a Klavostani port, and request sanctuary while they fill out the application to the Klavostani MRBC.

Which would not make them a Klavostani military force, but merely a business operating in Klavostan.