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Nematocyst wrote:

Negativedark wrote:Probably they're doing what they always do. Bieng awesome without anyone noticing. Funny isn't it how their are several countries who have excellent special forces, but aren't nations you normally think of having much in the way of military?

That's the sign of a good special forces unit: if you noticed their existance, they did it wrong.

Unfortunately on that front almost all of them get it wrong, since presumably their mission orders included hiding from HEA supreme command. On the other hand, yeah, coming from nations not having much in the way of military -- helps with plausible deniability.

Unless stated otherwise, I'm assuming that McChrystal in this timeline remained at JSOC and never got near Rolling Stone.

Nematocyst wrote:Also, is the Pope still Benedict XVI in this?

Would not be surprised, as to date haven't been replacements/divergence from IRL without mention, other than the Obama administration's cabinet transition, with the exception of SECDEF Warner and the eventual mention of SECSTATE Clinton.

Edward Yee wrote:there's more Canadian special ops units.

As far as I know, there is only one Canadian special operations forces unit, JTF-2. There is the Canadian Special Operations Regiment, but they're more like the US Army's Rangers or the British Army's Special Forces Support Group.

Nematocyst wrote: Also, is the Pope still Benedict XVI in this?

I believe all the political leaders are as in @.

I was drawing a comparison between JTF-2 and the SEALS due to their similar roles, being quiet insertions and being traditionally waterborne, although I suppose their is less of an opportunity for waterborne insertion in a desert environment. I also suppose functionally equivalent was a poor choice of phrase, and "Both Special Forces with similar roles" would have been more fitting.

Although I hope there are no Comm towers in Heaven.

Edward Yee wrote:
Unless stated otherwise, I'm assuming that McChrystal in this timeline remained at JSOC and never got near Rolling Stone.

Nematocyst wrote:Also, is the Pope still Benedict XVI in this?

Would not be surprised, as to date haven't been replacements/divergence from IRL without mention, other than the Obama administration's cabinet transition, with the exception of SECDEF Warner and the eventual mention of SECSTATE Clinton.

The alternate history rule of thumb is that if isn't mentioned, it's the same. I believe Stuart said something to that effect a while ago, too.

So, McCrystal probably got too candid about the delay before taking action on Heaven and resigned, Bennie is still Pope, and the Cabinet is the same.

Bayonet wrote:As far as I know, there is only one Canadian special operations forces unit, JTF-2. There is the Canadian Special Operations Regiment, but they're more like the US Army's Rangers or the British Army's Special Forces Support Group.

I'm counting the CSOR, along with the special ops helo squadron and their CBRN (chem/bio/radiological/nuclear) unit, as all four are covered by CANSOFCOM.

As for the Rangers, though... there's a character statement (probably a fluff statement, but detailed) attributed to the author of Kill Bin Laden soon after Stanley McChrystal was tapped to command ISAF n Afghanistan that said that when he was the Rangers' regimental commander, he was not okay with the idea of the Rangers being considered "Tier II," much a "farm team" for other SOF, considering that the units would have different primary missions. Ironically, when he moved on to command JSOC and tried to shake things up, much of the "Army-side" resistance came from former Rangers that he'd previously commanded.

DeRogue wrote:I was drawing a comparison between JTF-2 and the SEALS due to their similar roles, being quiet insertions and being traditionally waterborne, although I suppose their is less of an opportunity for waterborne insertion in a desert environment. I also suppose functionally equivalent was a poor choice of phrase, and "Both Special Forces with similar roles" would have been more fitting.

Going by CANSOFCOM's official FAQ for the unit, JTF-2 was created when the Mounties transferred federal counter-terror responsibility to the military, replacing the Special Emergency Response Team (SERT). (I admit some dark amusement at the Wiki-claim was that it was disbanded because officers had trouble dealing with the whole killing part...) Based on that, JTF-2's role would be more in line with the Naval Special Warfare Development Group (DEVGRU)'s unofficial role. (If you ever go to US Naval Special Warfare Command's Web site, in the unit list you'll need that after "ST-5" they skip right over to "ST-7." )

Coincidentally, both the commanders of USSOCOM (Adm. Eric T. Olson) and JSOC (Vice Adm. William H. McRaven) are former DEVGRU.

Although I hope there are no Comm towers in Heaven.

OUCH, that was low and I'm not even Canadian.

Regarding VIPs, the only known exceptions are Gordon Brown (David Cameron's his deputy), the lack of Dmitri Medvedev in the nominal top spot (it's instead Sergei Ivanov), and since Robert Gates resigned early in Armageddon, it's still SECDEF John Warner. In McChrystal's case he left JSOC in June 2008 (well after The Message), so I can see that happening in TSW (in which case his potential prominence is reduced), but then he went to a staff position at the Pentagon, and I'm guessing that Afghanistan went "cold" enough that McKiernan wasn't replaced.

DeRogue wrote:I was drawing a comparison between JTF-2 and the SEALS due to their similar roles, being quiet insertions and being traditionally waterborne,

Ah, like the SBS (Special Boat Service) then... who similarly get a lot less publicity than the Special Air Service.

Isn't JTF-2 actually the most public (known anyway) within Canada out of CANSOFCOM though?

Edward Yee wrote:Isn't JTF-2 actually the most public (known anyway) within Canada out of CANSOFCOM though?

Not so sure about that, I only heard of them by talking to some soldiers who were thinking about applying to it from Edmonton.

LadyTevar wrote:

"I can honestly say that Her Majesty's Armed Forces have no covert operations groups stationed outside The Eternal City." Sir Michael Jackson sounded positively righteous.

I wanna know how the SAS got inside. That story would be badass in and of itself.

...or not - a lot of 'hurry-up-and-wait' (I wonder if you still need a degree in journalism to pass SAS selection?

Seggybop wrote:Probably because Yahweh is classically depicted as a large male human with a long white beard (no wings).

Yeah - sort of "George Bernard Shaw" in a clean nightshirt....

I'm not sure how widespread knowledge of JTF-2 is in Canada, but I understand that it actually predates both CJIRU (the CBRN unit) and CSOR, second only to the helo squadron which was moved to CANSOFCOM in 2006.

*snickers at the journalism joke* Although the last I've ever heard along those lines was Task Force Black.

Stuart Mackey wrote:

LadyTevar wrote:
Thus, the British Readers should rejoice. Their Military Ops are (UnOfficially) the First Living Humans inside the Eternal City.

Petraeus smiled. "I see the SAS are living up to their reputations then.

There is more than one SAS unit, and they are not all British

Meh. To hear the Brits tell it, once you're in the SAS, they make you retroactively British, like it or not. That way, the Empire can take credit for everything you achieve. Of course, fail, and you're just another bloody colonial f***-up...



Ed.

EdBecerra wrote:
Meh. To hear the Brits tell it, once you're in the SAS, they make you retroactively British, like it or not. That way, the Empire can take credit for everything you achieve. Of course, fail, and you're just another bloody colonial f***-up...



Ed.

But whose SAS?, besides, if they want to play the colonial fuck up game, all one needs to do is remind them of all the times us colonials had to show them how to fight properly from 1840 onwards.

Stuart Mackey wrote:

EdBecerra wrote:
Meh. To hear the Brits tell it, once you're in the SAS, they make you retroactively British, like it or not. That way, the Empire can take credit for everything you achieve. Of course, fail, and you're just another bloody colonial f***-up...



Ed.

But whose SAS?, besides, if they want to play the colonial fuck up game, all one needs to do is remind them of all the times us colonials had to show them how to fight properly from 1840 onwards.

Not to mention the time before that that *us* colonials (with a little help from the French that we don't like to admit to) managed to kick their collective butts out... and then were begged to help save them with manpower and equipment a couple of times in the last century...

(No, I don't believe that the US won WW2 on its own. But I do believe that American manufacturing capacity won it. Lend-Lease started in 1939, remember...)

My question is, what with the superhuman vision of the angels (remember, the one angel was able to see Russian Sukhois many miles distant), how in General Dynamics Land Systems' name would any person with a gun, even an SAS trooper, not get instantly found out and swarmed in the city?

impatrick4life wrote:My question is, what with the superhuman vision of the angels (remember, the one angel was able to see Russian Sukhois many miles distant), how in General Dynamics Land Systems' name would any person with a gun, even an SAS trooper, not get instantly found out and swarmed in the city?

They're the SAS. Have faith, mate.

Arachnidus wrote:

impatrick4life wrote:My question is, what with the superhuman vision of the angels (remember, the one angel was able to see Russian Sukhois many miles distant), how in General Dynamics Land Systems' name would any person with a gun, even an SAS trooper, not get instantly found out and swarmed in the city?

They're the SAS. Have faith, mate.

I'd rather have firepower.

westrim wrote:

Arachnidus wrote:

impatrick4life wrote:My question is, what with the superhuman vision of the angels (remember, the one angel was able to see Russian Sukhois many miles distant), how in General Dynamics Land Systems' name would any person with a gun, even an SAS trooper, not get instantly found out and swarmed in the city?

They're the SAS. Have faith, mate.

I'd rather have firepower.

Formula for the SAS.

-Badassery.
-Hardcore body builds/stamina
-Stereotypically epic British accents
-More firepower in one gun than the entire nuclear sub fleet

Faith in firepower. It's what won us this war.

impatrick4life wrote:My question is, what with the superhuman vision of the angels (remember, the one angel was able to see Russian Sukhois many miles distant), how in General Dynamics Land Systems' name would any person with a gun, even an SAS trooper, not get instantly found out and swarmed in the city?

Simple. Don't be seen. Rather I just assume they didn't go an look like they were soldiers. Their are a lot of humans serving as the lowest class in the Eternal City. Dress like the human servants, disguise the weapons, and chances are that no angel is ever going to think twice about that human they just walked by.

impatrick4life wrote:My question is, what with the superhuman vision of the angels (remember, the one angel was able to see Russian Sukhois many miles distant), how in General Dynamics Land Systems' name would any person with a gun, even an SAS trooper, not get instantly found out and swarmed in the city?

Its called hiding in plain sight. Find some human dwelling, dress like the locals and set up shop.

A quick bit of excavating for a gear hiding place and your effectively invisible to the arrogant winged asses.

I think they have means of knowing if you are a 2nd Lifer or not. Rahab instantly recognized MaDeuce as a 1st Lifer, back in Armageddon.

But I'd love to see operations like that one inside the Eternal City.

Nematocyst wrote:I think they have means of knowing if you are a 2nd Lifer or not. Rahab instantly recognized MaDeuce as a 1st Lifer, back in Armageddon.

I think that's more because he wasn't naked and smeared in mud than anything else. All the futureclothes and gear, rather than mud and scavenged tridents and nails tend to leave a different impression. Nowhere else are 2nd lifers implied to be distinct in appearance unless their healing ability is made obvious.

Isn't every human a servant of someone, though? Much like the angels, I mean. So if you were, to make up a random name, SSgt. Thomas York of the 22nd SAS, you'd be Thomas-Lan-something. And if you picked the wrong name to follow that "Lan" you're more screwed than a chicken in a Samurai-exclusive sushi bar.