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Gil Hamilton wrote:It really depends on how quickly it comes out that that was his concentration camp, not Yahweh's. Lemuel must have pieced it together; he's not stupid and the barrier he had to cross, that Michael was capable of such things, has been crossed. Of course Michael should be the tiny splash that follows Yahweh's body into the lake, he absolutely deserves to die for what he's done and all that macho BS about him "doing what he had to do and I'd do the same" is just that.

The thing that may keep him alive is that if the human army kills Michael and gang now, there will be no one to make the rest of the angels surrender without committing further atrocity. I don't think General Patreus' stomache has settled after the last time he used a nuclear weapon, and this time they will be used against a city with 2/3rds the population of the United States. If Michael can make the Angelic Host surrender without it being mass murdered, then that is the reason to keep him alive. Not because of any of his virtues as an orchestrator of torture, rape, and murder.

The angelic host sees Michael as a liberator, a hero. He's freed them all from their servitude to Yah Yah, and most of them believe in him(were it not true, Mikey wouldn't have been able to kill ol' Yawny in the first place). If any disciplinary action is taken against Michael, the only way it can end is with the angels going ape-shiv on the HEA. That's why this situation is so hard, it's essentially a massive military coagulation, and one of the greatest military schemes ever devised.

"What of us?" The soft, sibilant voice from the leader of the choir grabbed at Michael's attention. "What do we do?"

"Anything you like." He looked at the members of the choir with sympathy. They were the last survivors of their kind, an ancient race that had been first seduced and then enslaved by Yahweh. When he had tired of them and found others to take their place, they had been cast down. Some might survive in the very depths of Hell. If so, the humans would find them and look after them.

So, are they orcs too, or is this another race that the baldricks and angels burned through? For that matter, we still haven't heard anything about the orcs aside from "they have reptilian legs" and "they're starting to revolt, a little." Granted, there were some distractions, but that'll mostly be done soon.

Speaking of those distractions, Michael's characterization throughout the story, I've felt, has been erratic. Sometimes he was much more clearly just a plain bastard who only wanted to preserve the angelic species so he'd have something to rule, and now he supposedly has more noble intentions. We can't argue that when he's alone he can think whatever he wants but for public consumption he puts on his better and charismatic face, because we've been reading his thoughts here. Or maybe we could, if he's so two-faced that he convinces himself of different things so as to seem the more convincing when he says it, and that's even scarier.

Whatever happens, I doubt that Michael is going to last very long. Revolutionaries often find themselves against the wall soon enough.

Excellent chapter.

One other thing - now that Yahweh's dead, I have a question. How big did you envision him being, Stuart? You've described him as being gigantic even in comparison to Michael, and I'm curious.

Guardsman Bass wrote:Excellent chapter.

One other thing - now that Yahweh's dead, I have a question. How big did you envision him being, Stuart? You've described him as being gigantic even in comparison to Michael, and I'm curious.

I'd like to know this as well. Ever since I started reading TSW I've been wondering about the evolutionary miracles that produced a species with such differentiations in size. Humans vary in feet, not meters.

I think the orcs were the original natives of Hell, so the choir should be a different race, especially since it specifically mentions casting them down to Hell after Yahweh was done with them.

"I can honestly say that Her Majesty's Armed Forces have no covert operations groups stationed outside The Eternal City." Sir Michael Jackson sounded positively righteous.

I wanna know how the SAS got inside. That story would be badass in and of itself.

At least Michael is thinking. A grand council of angels as a ruler, with Michael the 'first of equals'?

impatrick4life wrote:I just don't get where people get off saying Michael has crossed a Moral Event Horizon.

I don't think he's crossed the Moral Event Horison myself, but many of his actions has left a very bad taste in my mouth. I seriously think Michael should be held accountable for what he had to do, but as for if he deserves to die or not I'm not sure. I think I mentioned this before, though.

Guardsman Bass wrote:Excellent chapter.

One other thing - now that Yahweh's dead, I have a question. How big did you envision him being, Stuart? You've described him as being gigantic even in comparison to Michael, and I'm curious.

The description of his dead body being around the same size of the other angels caught my eye. Maybe he made himself (or maybe just appear) physically imposing due to his drunk-with-power nature? Or does having that amount of power in reserve make angels physically larger?
Or was he always as big as he once was and really was crushed to that size? If so, that's officially one of the worst ways I can imagine dying, especially if He was alive for most of it.

Mayabird wrote: Speaking of those distractions, Michael's characterization throughout the story, I've felt, has been erratic. Sometimes he was much more clearly just a plain bastard who only wanted to preserve the angelic species so he'd have something to rule, and now he supposedly has more noble intentions. We can't argue that when he's alone he can think whatever he wants but for public consumption he puts on his better and charismatic face, because we've been reading his thoughts here. Or maybe we could, if he's so two-faced that he convinces himself of different things so as to seem the more convincing when he says it, and that's even scarier.

I've tried to portray Michael as a Jekyll-and-Hyde character who is severely conflicted between the two sides of his nature. He is a ruthless, murderous cynical bastard but he also is working for a higher end than just raw power (though he wants that as well). He also has flashes of insight that tell him how culpably awful his behavior is. It's as if Dr Jekyll knew all about what Mr Hyde was up to and used it for his own benefit with occasional pangs of conscience. Michael is a massively conflicted and divided character, probably the most complex character that I've ever tried to portray. There's a deliberate ambivalence about him; the intent is that, whatever one feels about him, there's always an inevitable "yes . . . . but"

wanna know how the SAS got inside. That story would be badass in and of itself.

Keep reading

The description of his dead body being around the same size of the other angels caught my eye. Maybe he made himself (or maybe just appear) physically imposing due to his drunk-with-power nature? Or does having that amount of power in reserve make angels physically larger? Or was he always as big as he once was and really was crushed to that size? If so, that's officially one of the worst ways I can imagine dying, especially if He was alive for most of it.

I've deliberately left that vague along with the description so readers can insert a deific image they are happy with. Yahweh's size was partly genuine, partly an illusion he created. When he died, he was slowly crushed to death. As you say, a pretty bad way to go.

Arachnidus wrote:The angelic host sees Michael as a liberator, a hero. He's freed them all from their servitude to Yah Yah, and most of them believe in him(were it not true, Mikey wouldn't have been able to kill ol' Yawny in the first place). If any disciplinary action is taken against Michael, the only way it can end is with the angels going ape-shiv on the HEA. That's why this situation is so hard, it's essentially a massive military coagulation, and one of the greatest military schemes ever devised.

The problem is that:

(A) much of the Angelic Host doesn't know what slaves they are and probably don't realized they've been saved. Much of them honestly do believe that Yah-Yah was the Incomparible One Above All and Michael's now murdered him. True Believers don't stop being True Believers because their God happens to be an asshole. A study of the Old Testament can tell you that. Michael is going to have alot of explaining to do before anyone considers him a hero. Even if the people default to his rule because that's how things work in a feudal system (kings and emperors become kings and emperors by murdering their predecessors all the time), but that doesn't mean they'll love him for it. Even if they felt Yah-yah was a tyrant, Michael was Yah-Yah's guy for as long as they could remember. As fair as they know, they've merely exchanged one tyrant for another.

(B) If everything Michael did became common knowledge, he'd be next against the wall and considering the number of them he is responsible for torturing and murdering to fabricate evidence that Yahweh was worse than he actually was, they'd be right to do it. That may well happen if Lemuel shows up. Michael personally victimized his lady love (and less importantly in his mind, him) by hooking her on heroin and forcing her to work as a sex slave, then had her brutally tortured to an inch of her life JUST to manipulate him. Lemuel has no reason NOT to air Michael's dirty laundry, assuming that he doesn't go for personal vengence. Again, Michael most certainly would deserve it.

Stuart wrote:I've deliberately left that vague along with the description so readers can insert a deific image they are happy with. Yahweh's size was partly genuine, partly an illusion he created. When he died, he was slowly crushed to death. As you say, a pretty bad way to go.

The more powerful the critter, the bigger the volume that seem to occupy. Angels and demons seem to wildly vary in size, from basically human sized (most demon foots and lesser angels) to gigantic (Uriel and Abigor). We can't have Nephilim with gigantic celestial beings, unless this is a dachshund mating with a german shepherd scenario, which I've seen the results of and it's very silly. Perhaps angels and demons are alot like many species sharks, who anatomically stay basically the same but whose size varies based on diet. There are prehistoric sharks that are ENORMOUS compared to their modern descendants, but are basically the same shark. Their prey just got smaller in the modern age. Likewise, whatever mojo Yah-yah, Satan and the greater angels/demons consume to sustain themselves, they've grown enormous on it while lesser angels/demons don't have access so they don't grow so big. Humans don't eat that mojo at all, so we are limited by strict biology, not magic second Universe biology.

Arachnidus wrote:

Guardsman Bass wrote:Excellent chapter.

One other thing - now that Yahweh's dead, I have a question. How big did you envision him being, Stuart? You've described him as being gigantic even in comparison to Michael, and I'm curious.

I'd like to know this as well. Ever since I started reading TSW I've been wondering about the evolutionary miracles that produced a species with such differentiations in size. Humans vary in feet, not meters.

You're forgetting that we're not sure what species Yah-Yah was; I don't think he was Angelic.

Gil Hamilton wrote:If everything Michael did became common knowledge, he'd be next against the wall and considering the number of them he is responsible for torturing and murdering to fabricate evidence that Yahweh was worse than he actually was, they'd be right to do it. That may well happen if Lemuel shows up. Michael personally victimized his lady love (and less importantly in his mind, him) by hooking her on heroin and forcing her to work as a sex slave, then had her brutally tortured to an inch of her life JUST to manipulate him. Lemuel has no reason NOT to air Michael's dirty laundry, assuming that he doesn't go for personal vengence. Again, Michael most certainly would deserve it.

Does Lemuel know that Michael was responsible for the torture? The other things are obvious, but I think he's kept himself insulated from the torture. It wouldn't be too unreasonable to suspect him, but I don't think Lemuel could prove it.

Granted, just the suspicion could hurt his future political aspirations.

Good thing for Michael his friends showed up to pull his pork out of the fire. He owes them BIG time. And he's gonna need them for backup when Lemuel stops by to "chat".

FuzedBox wrote:

Arachnidus wrote:

Guardsman Bass wrote:Excellent chapter.

One other thing - now that Yahweh's dead, I have a question. How big did you envision him being, Stuart? You've described him as being gigantic even in comparison to Michael, and I'm curious.

I'd like to know this as well. Ever since I started reading TSW I've been wondering about the evolutionary miracles that produced a species with such differentiations in size. Humans vary in feet, not meters.

You're forgetting that we're not sure what species Yah-Yah was; I don't think he was Angelic.

Considering the sizes that Stuart's said they grow to, somewhere in the range of 40 feet+ for Chayot Ha Kadesh if I remember correctly, I think it's fair to assume he might be an angel. Just a really powerful one.

A quick repost so everybody has the data to hand.

Ishim 6 - 8 feet
Cherubim 8 - 10 feet
Bene Elohim 10 - 12 feet
Elohim 12 - 14 feet
Malakhim 14 - 16 feet
Seraphim 16 - 17 feet
Hashmallim 17 - 18 feet
Erelim 18 - 19 feet
Ophanim 19 - 20 feet
Chayot-Ha-Kadesh 20 - 25 feet

Uriel and Yahweh (and Satan) were about twice the size of a Chayot-Ha-Kadesh.

By the way, I did some maths. So far, the TSW stories have had a total of more than 1.6 million reads.

If I had to speculate as to why angels and demons differ in size...

I'd say it's part psychological and part biological.

The angels and demons that are typically huge are incidentally the most powerful. My guess would be that there is a psychological component, the belief or knowledge that they are the alpha male, that triggers some kind of chemical production in their biology, hormones, brain chemistry etc that affects their size and strength.

The higher the position of power they're in, the more of this chemical or hormone is produced and the larger in size they wind up being.

God, Satan and Uriel got to be the size they were because they were amongst the most powerful of all... and potentially would have kept growing if they perceived their power as growing in proportion. Lower ranked angels and demons would stay relatively small because their perception of power is proportionately smaller.

It's possible that as a result of the changes in heaven and hell that a long term effect may be larger demons shrinking in size and smaller ones growing as their perception of power changes.

FuzedBox wrote:

Arachnidus wrote:

Guardsman Bass wrote:Excellent chapter.

One other thing - now that Yahweh's dead, I have a question. How big did you envision him being, Stuart? You've described him as being gigantic even in comparison to Michael, and I'm curious.

I'd like to know this as well. Ever since I started reading TSW I've been wondering about the evolutionary miracles that produced a species with such differentiations in size. Humans vary in feet, not meters.

You're forgetting that we're not sure what species Yah-Yah was; I don't think he was Angelic.

I always figured him and Satan to be from a different species of humanoid, one even bigger and more personally powerful than the winged humanoids/angels/devils. "Titans", perhaps, as opposed to "Humans" and "Angels/Devils"?

HUMANITY! FUCK YEAH!

So the bastard is finally dead. Didn't seem like a particularly pleasant way to go, but I don't give a shit about his suffering. I wonder how an invasion of the Eternal City would have gone. Would have been like a giant Stalingrad, or would our technological advantage have made it a bit easier?

Stuart wrote: "I can honestly say that Her Majesty's Armed Forces have no covert operations groups stationed outside The Eternal City." Sir Michael Jackson sounded positively righteous. Asanee's head snapped around to look at him and one of her eyebrows was raised.

I'm sure that if Sir Michael had a mustache, he'd have twirled it. It's one of the best lines in the entire story

TEAM HUMANITY, UNIVERSE POLICE!

It's finally done.

Uriel, do we know for certain that he was biologically an Angel?

And about Ellmas's size, was he big as Michael or more towards Yahweh? I seem to recall it being more to the later.

I wonder if Yahweh had examples from any of the other species that he tricked in servitude lying around the eternal heaven?

Guardsman Bass wrote: "Titans", perhaps, as opposed to "Humans" and "Angels/Devils"?

You mean Demons. "Devils" might very well be the same as "Titans" so far as this story is concerned.

LadyTevar wrote:

"I can honestly say that Her Majesty's Armed Forces have no covert operations groups stationed outside The Eternal City." Sir Michael Jackson sounded positively righteous.

I wanna know how the SAS got inside. That story would be badass in and of itself.

You mean "outside," unless you saw the General Sir lying there too?

*sees Stuart's "keep reading"* I nominate that that portion be called Who Dares Wins: 解放への戦争 ~ SAS 外伝!

Although, one nice perk about being Supreme Commander, Earth, Heaven and Hell has to be that you in turn don't have to acknowledge a group that may or may not exist called JSOC or SMUs or Tier 1...

I See What You Did There, Stuart *coughcough*

At least Michael is thinking. A grand council of angels as a ruler, with Michael the 'first of equals'?

Or rather, 'some more equal than others'.

As for the question of how a 'forced' invasion would have gone... MOP the walls if Petraeus doesn't feel like "nuking our way in"*, but it'd mainly come down to the level of angelic resistance and tactics; from what I've seen, portals (other than possibly in Myanmar) are still "strategic," so you won't see things like a unit and its immediate service/support vehicles portalling away from an attempted angelic flanking maneuver.

*high fives Commander Xillian*

* The way I've been reading this, Petraeus thinks that going "TBO" on the Eternal City would have been his Moral Event Horizon.

Edward Yee wrote:

LadyTevar wrote:

"I can honestly say that Her Majesty's Armed Forces have no covert operations groups stationed outside The Eternal City." Sir Michael Jackson sounded positively righteous.

I wanna know how the SAS got inside. That story would be badass in and of itself.

You mean "outside," unless you saw the General Sir lying there too?

*sees Stuart's "keep reading"* I nominate that that portion be called Who Dares Wins: 解放への戦争 ~ SAS 外伝!

Sir Michael did not lie. His CovOps are not OUTSIDE the Eternal City, they have gotten INSIDE. Which is why Petraeus made the little quip about England's SAS.

Thus, the British Readers should rejoice. Their Military Ops are (UnOfficially) the First Living Humans inside the Eternal City.

Edward Yee wrote:* The way I've been reading this, Petraeus thinks that going "TBO" on the Eternal City would have been his Moral Event Horizon.

I think this is absolutely true. Nuking the Incomparible Legion of Light was really sick making stuff for him, particularly since he's no doubt been made aware of what the radiation induced cancer does to second lifers. I think he's going to resist using more nuclear weapons on second lifers unless he has absolutely no other choice on the matter. That's why he's going to take Michael's surrender.