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Keevan_Colton wrote:

Cpt_Frank wrote:

Sr.mal wrote:No no no no, the MP-38 was the German smg during WW2 thats the one I'm talking about. It's made of stamped sheet metal. It is very easy to manufacture.

The MP-38 and MP38/40 had a pathetic range, no select fire switch and lacked forward handguns.
The PPSch-41 has better range, is easier to manufacture and maintain and it's more reliable.

As for assault rifles, AK-100 series, preferably in .223 since it's generally superior to 7.62 M1943.

Remember though, the scenario stipulates specific types of ammo we have...so we need guns that can use those types of ammo.

Yeah, I wonder why he put .40 S&W in there...
can't we just replace it with 7.62 x 25mm?

kill saruman, grab his stuff, grab the one ring, and set up a kingdom.

Keevan_Colton wrote:

Cpt_Frank wrote:

Sr.mal wrote:No no no no, the MP-38 was the German smg during WW2 thats the one I'm talking about. It's made of stamped sheet metal. It is very easy to manufacture.

The MP-38 and MP38/40 had a pathetic range, no select fire switch and lacked forward handguns.
The PPSch-41 has better range, is easier to manufacture and maintain and it's more reliable.

As for assault rifles, AK-100 series, preferably in .223 since it's generally superior to 7.62 M1943.

Remember though, the scenario stipulates specific types of ammo we have...so we need guns that can use those types of ammo.

AK-101 fires 5.56 NATO, same caliber as .223

Balrog wrote:

No, there won't. Perhaps you didn't read our plans for clearing out a defensive perimeter around the base, along with the usual mechanized patrols, recon, etc. Nobody gets close to this base unless we want them to. And with .50cal MG emplacements on all 4 corners, we have the power to "dissuade" any interlopers from approaching.

But they don't have the range to disrupte a well-laid siege of the base, short of charging out on Humvees into who knows what kind of trap set up, and if Nazgûl on Fell beasts come soaring in out of the clouds, their fear just might send the whole base into a panic.

How are they going to siege, exactly? Surround us outside range of arrows? .50 cals can reach that far. Keep falling back? That's tech'cally called a retreat, especially when pressed by men with rifles.

Nazgul on Fell Beasts don't scare me that much. They can be driven off with a single spear, so a sharpshooter should be able to end their threat before the fear aura gets close enough.

Finally, both plans are screwed, since there's enough collective understanding of Bernoulli and Internal Combustion to construct small ultralights. They won't be able to launch saturation bombing, and I wouldn't want one getting close to the lava-rivers of Mordor and the insane thermals they'd make, but against this siege scenario, you could have some dropping napalm on the sieging army, truly fucking their day.

Enforcer Talen wrote:kill saruman, grab his stuff, grab the one ring, and set up a kingdom.

Helllo boromir. Welcome to the wraith world, enjoy your eternity as the slave of Sauron's will.

Balrog wrote:

And why would we have to hunt them down? We're building a base of operations; if they come to us, we can take 'em out at a range of hundreds of yards.

Which is fine and dandy, while you're in your base.

And when we're off-base, we're still armed. Only an idiot brings a knife to a gunfight, and that is precisely what the Nazgul would be doing.

Through solid walls from a kilometre away? What good is that going to do them? They're certainly not going to be able to enter the base without authorization.

No, but "the enemy has many spies, birds, beasts" seems to not ring a bell. Are you going to shoot down any bird that comes within a kilometer of the base? And how are you going to stop The Eye from watching?

And what are they going to see that's going to be of any use to them? You overestimate their capabilities; Frodo was able to evade Sauron's searchers on foot, and you act as though Sauron is omniscient. Suppose he discovers our base; so what? We'll have a secured perimeter by that time and we can annihilate any force he brings close.

No, there won't. Perhaps you didn't read our plans for clearing out a defensive perimeter around the base, along with the usual mechanized patrols, recon, etc. Nobody gets close to this base unless we want them to. And with .50cal MG emplacements on all 4 corners, we have the power to "dissuade" any interlopers from approaching.

But they don't have the range to disrupte a well-laid siege of the base, short of charging out on Humvees into who knows what kind of trap set up, and if Nazgûl on Fell beasts come soaring in out of the clouds, their fear just might send the whole base into a panic.

Bullshit. There are only a handful of Nazgul, who can be easily taken out with sniper fire. And nobody can approach within a kilometre without getting hammered by .50 cal MG fire. They can't set up a siege that's several kilometres wide without having it too porous to allow Hummers to simply drive through, and we can use mortars to annihilate them at that range with explosives and chemical weapons anyway (EDIT: or we can simply walk out of our base until we're in rifle range, while remaining out of their range, and practice our marksmanship on them. The range disparity is large enough that we could be calmly walking around outside our base despite their "siege", and if they try to move in to attack us, they eat .50cal from the MG nests).

Besides, how do they bring these forces close to us in the first place? With our superior mobility, we know about them with patrols long before they reach us, and we can wear them down as they approach with long-range sniping tactics and/or the use of mortars with shoot 'n scoot tactics.

You are thinking about the sort of tactics you read about in cheesy fantasy novels.

SirNitram wrote: How are they going to siege, exactly? Surround us outside range of arrows? .50 cals can reach that far. Keep falling back? That's tech'cally called a retreat, especially when pressed by men with rifles.

Nazgul on Fell Beasts don't scare me that much. They can be driven off with a single spear, so a sharpshooter should be able to end their threat before the fear aura gets close enough.

Personally I'd like to see the Nazgul attempt to fly once their mount's brains are splattered in their faces.

As for the seige, we have millitary equipment and various machine gun nests on the base IIRC.

Darth Wong wrote: And when we're off-base, we're still armed. Only an idiot brings a knife to a gunfight, and that is precisely what the Nazgul would be doing.

Balrog wrote:No, but "the enemy has many spies, birds, beasts" seems to not ring a bell.

And what are they going to report, exactly? "Oh shit, we're fucked"? What's Sauron going to do about it, exactly? Send a force in? We'll mow them down well before they get within their arrows' range of our walls.

Are you going to shoot down any bird that comes within a kilometer of the base? And how are you going to stop The Eye from watching?

Why bother? What could they possibly tell him that would be of use? As for the Eye, who cares?

Sea Skimmer wrote:

Keevan_Colton wrote:

Cpt_Frank wrote: The MP-38 and MP38/40 had a pathetic range, no select fire switch and lacked forward handguns.
The PPSch-41 has better range, is easier to manufacture and maintain and it's more reliable.

As for assault rifles, AK-100 series, preferably in .223 since it's generally superior to 7.62 M1943.

Remember though, the scenario stipulates specific types of ammo we have...so we need guns that can use those types of ammo.

AK-101 fires 5.56 NATO, same caliber as .223

Firearms arent my speciality....start talking specs on swords, axes, spears and armour and I am fine....just making sure that everyone remembers our restrictions

NecronLord wrote:

Balrog wrote:And how are you going to stop The Eye from watching?

The eye is a palantir. The big glowy routine in the film is simply there to look nice. The book directly contradicts this, when sauron had gollum he personally tortured him, and gollum states that he has four fingers on one of his hands. The meathod used by saurman (a palantir with a cloth over it) to avoid being spied upon will work equally well for us.

Another security problem is the women in Wongs plan. We'll have to build an outbuilding to prevent them observing what we don't want them to while doing what we want them to.

Yes, i know, found it odd when Saruman stated he didn't take physical form in the movie

Still, taking a Palantir would require a lot of work, and it would require those with one (Saruman, Sauron) to not take any intrest on the base in the first place.

As for "What they gonna do about it, we don't care if they can watch troop movements, ect, we'll just shoot them" makes ya'll sound like the SB crew

And what makes people so sure they wouldn't be effected by the Nazgûl's fear or Black Breath enough to shoot them after swooping out of the clouds right on top of the base?

You are thinking about the sort of tactics you read about in cheesy fantasy novels.

Nah, I stay with quality stuff only

Balrog wrote:As for "What they gonna do about it, we don't care if they can watch troop movements, ect, we'll just shoot them" makes ya'll sound like the SB crew

Um ... yeah, we will just shoot them. There's no way Sauron could mount an effective attack on our base. Knowing what we're doing inside isn't likely to help him much. His ranged weapons have far inferior range compared to ours, and we possess chemical weapons that would tear through Orc ranks unimpeded.

Furthermore, since we have superior mobility, we decide where and when the battles will take place. All the intelligence-gathering in the world doesn't change that. What's more, where's the evidence that the Eye does, in fact, see everything? He obviously didn't see the Fellowship's path, or else he would have relayed that information to Sarumon. Sarumon had to send out his birds to gather intelligence.

And what makes people so sure they wouldn't be effected by the Nazgûl's fear or Black Breath enough to shoot them after swooping out of the clouds right on top of the base?

Because they'd be blown to dust well before they could "swoop out of the clouds." These are dragons, not airplanes. Their maximum altitude is nowhere near out of our gun range.

In the thread so far atleast I haven't noticed has anyone thought about setting up rows and rows of razor wire/barbed wire along with punji stick boob trays etc..?(I know someone said punji before...but in conjunction with razor wire.)

Maybe make some crude trip wire frags with a 40 gallon metal drum,alittle gas,nails,bolts and or small pieces of metal and crude det?

Food for thought.

Already been mentioned four times by my count Laird, twice specificly, twice not(IE Necron and Rob both suggested specifics while others mentioned brining along the Guild book for the Viet Cong to help out)

Durandal wrote:

Balrog wrote:

And what makes people so sure they wouldn't be effected by the Nazgûl's fear or Black Breath enough to shoot them after swooping out of the clouds right on top of the base?

Because they'd be blown to dust well before they could "swoop out of the clouds." These are dragons, not airplanes. Their maximum altitude is nowhere near out of our gun range.

One was downed with damn bow on the river. We'd kill them easily.

Mr Bean wrote:Already been mentioned four times by my count Laird, twice specificly, twice not(IE Necron and Rob both suggested specifics while others mentioned brining along the Guild book for the Viet Cong to help out)

Hmm guess I must have missed it.

Oh well.

phongn wrote: Punji sticks also work.

And they also solve our "what to do with human excrement" problems.

NecronLord wrote:

Enforcer Talen wrote:kill saruman, grab his stuff, grab the one ring, and set up a kingdom.

Helllo boromir. Welcome to the wraith world, enjoy your eternity as the slave of Sauron's will.

-cocks head- that *is* the summary of this thread. why bother with corruption? have 3 people keep an eye on each other and the ring,as lord wong said, and never touch it. we can build a kingdom quite easily without it.

One was downed with damn bow on the river. We'd kill them easily.

If you're referring to the movie, I'm pretty sure the book is more cannon then the film adaptation.

But, if you think you've got the situation under control, good luck then

Balrog wrote:

One was downed with damn bow on the river. We'd kill them easily.

If you're referring to the movie, I'm pretty sure the book is more cannon then the film adaptation.

But, if you think you've got the situation under control, good luck then

Though the book does indicate fire shafts them....so I think with our knowledge and a big book of matches we're likely to be alright...

For selling technology to the locals, we can invent better plows and irrigation techniques until we can bring steam-engine tractors to bear, just like in our own real history. Why risk bogging down and messing up the HumVees for agro uses? Although it may be useful in limitaed applications...

And the Zeppelin would be used either for airial spraying of ricin, and/or for landing a team on Mt. Doom to pitch the ring in before the enemy forces have time to reverse course and meet us there.

Balrog wrote:

One was downed with damn bow on the river. We'd kill them easily.

If you're referring to the movie, I'm pretty sure the book is more cannon then the film adaptation.

But, if you think you've got the situation under control, good luck then

Its in the book, a black rider on a winged mount is downed during the fellowships trip down the Aduin.

Hmmm. One handy thing to bring back would be a collection of metallurgy texts. Analysis of Damascus steel. Japanese sword making techniques etc...

Coyote wrote:For selling technology to the locals, we can invent better plows and irrigation techniques until we can bring steam-engine tractors to bear, just like in our own real history. Why risk bogging down and messing up the HumVees for agro uses? Although it may be useful in limitaed applications...

And the Zeppelin would be used either for airial spraying of ricin, and/or for landing a team on Mt. Doom to pitch the ring in before the enemy forces have time to reverse course and meet us there.

The Zepplin does seem like a good idea for the mount doom trip...and now it seems I've hit the top 75....