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Re: Hull no. 721- a fanfic

Posted: 2008-10-06 09:34pm
by LadyTevar
It was a bit of a lecture at the end, but Flag Rank? Sweeeeeeeeeeeet.
everybody gets to paint up the outline of One and Indivisible and fill in the bits they were responsible for. Reiver, the credit is going to go eighty-twenty Fist and Dynamic, and Admonisher, five percent Hialaya, Dynamic and Voracious, fifteen Fist, the rest Black Prince.
You know, of course, the Fist will do just that -- paint recognizable outlines of her kills and color in what she killed, right? It would go wonderfully with all the other kill-marks I told you she had, like the Vic-class and the various gunboats. :mrgreen:

Re: Hull no. 721- a fanfic

Posted: 2008-10-07 01:40am
by Ekiqa
You going to write a sequel?

Re: Hull no. 721- a fanfic

Posted: 2008-10-07 10:03am
by Andras
So Black Prince is going to end up with 2 Heavy -I twin turrets and 6 -II type octuples? Will Mirannon get to reconstruct the starboard turret line to match Port now?

And Fist will end up with 4 Octuples, 2 heavy twins, and 2 heavy ion turrets?

Re: Hull no. 721- a fanfic

Posted: 2008-10-12 07:27am
by Eleventh Century Remnant
Naval mechanics first of all-
Fist is an Imperator-I, with the open gun positions that involves; the main ion turrets are going to be repositioned, moved down to the trench position occupied by the heavy quad batteries, so retaining them and freeing up eight heavy turbolaser turrets, two twin 175 and two octuple 32.

Black Prince is going to be put through a partial version of the Tector rebuild- they're slightly larger anyway. Starboard side extended, starboard turret line echeloned out, proton torp launch tubes fitted finally, and the really interesting bit is what happens to the bow of the ship.

Where the two extensions meet, the ship is going to require a complete new bow- and that would mask the power and structure connections to the forward cluster of tractor beams. Can't have that. The frame is going to be extended forward and braced down the length of the extensions, tying that in to the existing structure will effectively wrap an additional exoskeleton around the main hull frame.

Power to weight then becomes a real problem- traded off against power endurance, by fitting aditional secondary engines in the stern of the extensions, additional secondary reactors in the extensions. Peak acceleration still around 3300 'g', power endurance at full thrust not good. Even with every safe space crammed with fuel torii, eight thousand seconds at full power is probably the best they can hope for.

The bow tractors are going to be moved back to the brim trench positions, and Black Prince is going to acquire what is effectively a fourth main battery, a set of four turrets based on the structure and power connections of the pursuit tractors.

The axials, incidentally, are going to have to go; the Separatist 480 is notoriously thin- barrelled, they get the high yield out of it by sacrificing a lot of endurance and factors of safety- the specific examples have already worn through a lot of their service life. They'll be replaced by Starfleet standard 320's.

One in each superstructure- side turret line is going to be replaced by octuple light-heavy ion cannon, one of the four bow mounts is going to be twin heavy ion, one in each superstructure line twin 175s, one on the bow a twin 175, the other two octuples; three ion, three heavy twin, six octuple 32's, three 320's.
It may take a while. Even longer to get the bugs out, and actually coming close to justifying another redesignation- to Tector-II.



In terms of story- what's likely to happen next depends, to be honest, partly on you; there are three ways things could develop.

The natural thrust of the plot has changed- diverging from what I had originally intended. The political side is going to take some sorting out, but Lennart wants to do some probing- find out how close what Adannan said comes to the truth, how important the force really is to the Empire.
As a serving officer, he has the vulnerability of being under orders- but that is arguably more than offset by the access it gives him, and the personal security of having lots of armed people around.

Personal preference aside, the Starfleet is a better place for him to be- he wants to avoid joining the ranks of the dark adepts at all costs, he has no illusions about his ability to survive a duel of force powers, in that circumstance the system will drag him under.

Which is one of the reasons I haven't gone over what happens to Black Prince's crew, because who gets what largely depends on him.
Likely the best of the divisional officers is going to get the exec's slot, but command, now there's a problem. If Lennart manages to hold on to a job in the fleet, it's going to be at his present rank- in which case all is good- or possibly higher. Captain of the Line or Commodore second class, no change.

Commodore first class, with a flag captain under him, then Brenn is going to inherit the command chair while Lennart chews his fingernails off to the shoulder trying not to be as much of a back seat driver as Admiral Lord Convarrian- and in charge of what?

The three alternatives;
1) timeskip. Straight forward to after Endor and the driven, riven fragmentation of the Empire, and it's likely that Vineland Sector would play a significant part. Warlords, thugs and separatists, blue on blue on blue- the death of galactic peace and the twilight of the Imperial starfleet.

2) immediate follow on. Play out the politics, the force and the bureaucracy of the living, thriving Empire and the faction squabbles within, which may spin off into increasingly AU as the plot goes on if I'm not careful.
Names and Numbers, moffs and governors, the secret history of the dark side- all good ugly fun.

3) abandon all pretensions to seriousness, admit 'the hell with it, this is fanfic' and strike out into crossover territory. Long range recon work in advance of Thrawn's projected extragalactic operations.
There could be lots of fun in this, and it gives a good opportunity to look at the Empire from outside- I've already written a chapter and a half for one potential destination, which I will have to post even if it slips down into the category of apocrypha, because I enjoyed writing it.

Nothing too easy; autowin isn't fun, but popping into the middle of the Dalek-Gallifrey Time Wars could be a fascinating adventure in warped causality, and the results of an officer exchange program with the Boskonian fleet could hardly fail to be illuminatingly bizarre. Even the less far out has appeal; can you picture "Special Agent LJ Tibbs" getting hold of Pel Aldrem's charge sheet?

Re: Hull no. 721- a fanfic

Posted: 2008-10-12 10:04am
by Kartr_Kana
This has been one of my favorite fanfics ever Overlord and I'm rather hoping for an epilogue in which we see a little more of the fate of the Black Prince. Nothing terrible involved just a short wrap up of what's happening to our favorite pilots and crewers, maybe even a particular Spacetrooper :D

As for a sequel I like both 1 & 2 maybe even both, in the time honored SW tradition of trilogies. Whatever decision is made though you can be sure that I will be an avid reader of the next story in the saga of the Black Prince and her crew.

Re: Hull no. 721- a fanfic

Posted: 2008-10-12 10:18am
by Darth Raptor
Consider my vote cast for Option 2. Not that I don't want to see if and how they make it through the post-Endor catastro-fuck, but there's more to be done in the near term- both with the characters themselves and the situation they've found themselves in.

Re: Hull no. 721- a fanfic

Posted: 2008-10-12 07:17pm
by Enigma
Option 2 or 3. I wouldn't mind that they end up in the Alpha quadrant and meet up with the UFP.

Re: Hull no. 721- a fanfic

Posted: 2008-10-12 08:17pm
by fractalsponge1
Kartr_Kana wrote:This has been one of my favorite fanfics ever Overlord
I think getting the author's name wrong disqualifies you from something ;P

For the sequels, I vote 2 or 3, personally.

Bit of digression - that sounds like a very heavily armed tector-variant indeed - but not entirely sure about the arrangement - let me see if I get this right:

total of 6x8 32s, 3x1 320s, 3x2 175s and 3x8 ion

port/starboard line : twin 175, 2x octuple 32, 1x octuple ion
bow: 2xtwin 175, 2x octuple 32 ?

Quite a good deal more draw on an ISD power plant - even if you fit additional secondaries, there must be a limit at which scaling and additional feeds to the power grid becomes a major issue. You reckon a Tector is pushed as hard as that (once the volume differences between the refit Black Prince and the standard Tector are sorted)? Also, how large would you imagine these hull extensions to be? Large enough obviously to involve plating over the prow? The Tector at Endor is very similar in dimensions to an ISD (as an effects aside, I'm pretty certain it's literally an ISD hull). And yes, I am asking for reasons related to a potential 3d heavy destroyer :)

Re: Hull no. 721- a fanfic

Posted: 2008-10-12 10:37pm
by gtg947h
For what little it's worth, I vote 1 and/or 2. I think this one was too serious and, well, realistic to be venturing into crossover territory.

Re: Hull no. 721- a fanfic

Posted: 2008-10-12 10:44pm
by Ekiqa
Can I vote for all three?

I'd prefer seeing the direct fall out from this, but it would be cool to see post Endor warlordism, as well as a crossover.

An idea for the post Endor would be that his Fleet that he's in carves out a territory, or something.

Re: Hull no. 721- a fanfic

Posted: 2008-10-12 11:13pm
by Vehrec
1 sounds like a great deal of fun-the chaos of those years would be a very interesting read. I'd love to see the tale of the blue on blue, the defections, the outing of the Emperor as a Sith, etc, etc.

3 on the other hand sounds like much greater levels of fun-and a lot less canon. In short, crackfic. Like those fics where some ninja in training winds up with that journal from the second Harry Potter book and beats Tom Riddle at his own game.

Re: Hull no. 721- a fanfic

Posted: 2008-10-13 12:15pm
by LadyTevar
I like Number 1 best.

HOWEVER : Admiral Thawn is an interesting addition to this mix. He was active at 'present time', and I am sure he'd have made note of the Black Prince and her Captain. If you want to go somewhat political on the story, having Thawn sound Lennart out as a possible ally in his navy would be interesting. The hardest part would be writing a believable Thrawn.

Re: Hull no. 721- a fanfic

Posted: 2008-10-13 01:19pm
by Count Chocula
LadyTevar wrote:
If you want to go somewhat political on the story, having Thawn sound Lennart out as a possible ally in his navy would be interesting. The hardest part would be writing a believable Thrawn.
Ooh, this has all sorts of juicy potential! I can see Thrawn meeting with Lennart, and saying something along the lines of: "Commodore, I've studied your ship's newsletters. Very interesting material."

Relocating Black Prince out of the Vineland sector to the Outer Rim might suck, though.

Re: Hull no. 721- a fanfic

Posted: 2008-10-13 01:39pm
by Ekiqa
Count Chocula wrote:Relocating Black Prince out of the Vineland sector to the Outer Rim might suck, though.
But it is REALLY easy to do, as the fleet is a roving fleet, right? It's spread out across the galaxy, not tied to any one region or sector.

It could be a fleet that Thrawn pulls in when he takes all those sector fleets into the Unkown Regions.

Re: Hull no. 721- a fanfic

Posted: 2008-10-13 05:05pm
by Vianca
Eleventh Century Remnant wrote:The three alternatives;
1) timeskip. Straight forward to after Endor and the driven, riven fragmentation of the Empire, and it's likely that Vineland Sector would play a significant part. Warlords, thugs and separatists, blue on blue on blue- the death of galactic peace and the twilight of the Imperial starfleet.

2) immediate follow on. Play out the politics, the force and the bureaucracy of the living, thriving Empire and the faction squabbles within, which may spin off into increasingly AU as the plot goes on if I'm not careful.
Names and Numbers, moffs and governors, the secret history of the dark side- all good ugly fun.

3) abandon all pretensions to seriousness, admit 'the hell with it, this is fanfic' and strike out into crossover territory. Long range recon work in advance of Thrawn's projected extragalactic operations.
There could be lots of fun in this, and it gives a good opportunity to look at the Empire from outside- I've already written a chapter and a half for one potential destination, which I will have to post even if it slips down into the category of apocrypha, because I enjoyed writing it.
Go with 2, follow up with 1 and then start with 3. :P

That would give us the best of both worlds.

Re: Hull no. 721- a fanfic

Posted: 2008-10-13 06:13pm
by Thanas
Well, I have finally finished this, having had the privilege of reading it in one go...and I have to say, fantastic work. Much more enjoyable than any novel the EU has put out already.

As for what the options should be, maybe a combination? I mean, one option might be having Lennart being ordered to Coruscant/for debriefing and then getting noticed by Thrawn (shouldn't he be only a vice-admiral at this point, commanding from the VSDs Sceltor or Stalwart, or alternatively the ISDs Vanguard or Grew Wolf after being promoted to Admiral/Grand Admiral?) and being pulled into the whole Zaarin business, culminating in Back Prince getting reassigned to Thrawn's expeditionary forces?

Lennart sounds exactly like the type of person Thrawn would enjoy to have under his command. And as for writing a believable Thrawn, I have no doubt you can pull it off.

Re: Hull no. 721- a fanfic

Posted: 2008-10-14 01:05am
by Kartr_Kana
Maybe backing Lennart was the political "suicide" Thrawn committed to get exiled

Re: Hull no. 721- a fanfic

Posted: 2008-10-14 07:05am
by Eleventh Century Remnant
Vox populi, vox dei.

Counting splits, that works out at four in favour of option one, five and a half for option two, two and a half for option three.

That was the option I was trying to avoid. Damn you for making me take my own work seriously, I want to goof off too from time to time :lol:

I'll start doing the spadework on that, although there are three things worth bearing in mind. Corellian Engineering wanted Black Prince back so they could take a good look at what Mirannon had done to their ship;
Lennart wanted to go there because he knows enough people to stand a fair chance of being able to disappear and hide if things turn nasty;
and the debrief, on the 118th Fleet Incident, Adannan's treacherous leanings, the possible existence of a treasonous cabal, and the involvement with traitors of one of the Empire's greatest magnates, is not going to be conducted by the blue skinned one. It's much more likely to end up in the hands of Lord Darth Vader.


Trying to replace the partially upside down system of the Imperial Sourcebook with something that makes recognisable and intuitive sense, I come out with the equivalence that a Systems Force- up to three line and eight light destroyers- is probably a Rear-Admiral's command, and a Fleet- in this case almost certainly a superiority fleet, cored around six line and twenty- four light destroyers- is a Vice-Admiral's.

Large, but on the galactic scale not particularly significant combat commands. If Mthh'raw'nuruodo is at this level, he has a roving command within Oversector Imperial Centre, and is probably about as popular as a dose of head- swelling space mumps.
He seems to have an extraordinary degree of freedom for someone at that rank, what I suspect is happening is that he's something of an Emperor's pet- and troubleshooter- that Palpatine keeps around to goad and occasionally humiliate the human senior officers.

He will, of course, be fully aware of that and riding it for all it's worth. He has the political momentum behind him- and the political savvy- not to trip up over something like that. Subsequently- after, or during, the Zaarin business?- he is promoted and "exiled" to Oversector Outer. So, yes, things may happen there.


On the Tector class; I reckon they have got real problems. Simply, the fighter and troop complements of a multirole ship are very light for the volume they take up- one of the reasons the razee'd Acclamators can set the speed records they do. Fill that space with reactors, weapon mounts, structural bracing for them both, the deadweight of the ship rises enormously.

A mistake on my part may actually prove useful; an excessively uncritical acceptance of SWTC- where it is speculatively stated that Tectors are a hundred metres longer than the standard Imperator.
What if it requires a major engine rebuild to get them to keep up with the rest of the fleet, and that extra hundred metres really does exist, but is extended ion drives and fantail? We never saw that ship's stern at Endor.

There are at least two potential variants- again, I'm assuming the design process mapped out hundreds of potential options, only a small number of which were actually built. There could be a minimalist Tector, accomplishable by refitting an Imperial class, with the bays plated over, the construction and base emplacement gear gone, and the reactor plant replaced by, I reckon, whatever else works- call it triple Venator reactor modules, for reference.

The engines are rebuilt to run closer to the redline and keep up, and the additional antiship fireower comes from increased energy to the guns allowing for a higher rate of fire from the same number of barrels. 1.2 to 1.3E25W, with additional secondaries as well, giving a potential throw weight- less drives- in the 2867- 3106 teraton range. Modest but meaningful, that enhances the ship's survivability more than anything else. Call that Tector- I.

The version with the extended fantail, the heavy Tector-II, has to be built that way from the keel up, and it's a monster. At least four power plants, and a turret layout that I estimate as lines either side of the superstructure, triple heavy ion aft, then alternating triple-twin-triple-twin, a total of twenty 175- teraton turbolasers to the Imperator-I's twelve. They are probably highly demanding ships to run, and not popular with their engineers- or their commanders, who know that their role is usually to be tied to a flagship.

Black Prince has already stripped most of the base emplacement gear from the nose, the extensions- which prolong the upper surface of the hull out another forty metres and mask the brim trench, needing a revised set of PD mounts- were one of the paper plans, which is why it's possible, the design work's been done already. That would mask the tractors, meaning they'd need to be moved anyway, so why not?
FractalSponge, you've got a turret too many in the superstructure rows. Each echeloned line on the upper surface, one octuple ion turret, one twin 175, two octuple 32's. Bow- one turret right in the eyes of the ship- twin 175- one on the lower edge of the extensions, twin heavy ion, one either side of the bow, octuple 32.

I'll post the already- completed bits for the crossover in a separate thread. It is pure goofing off, I warn you.