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Ryan Thunder wrote: Right, because it has to be either we get totally fucked over, or they get totally fucked over. Good to know that there's nothing in between.

An attempt at a straw man, smooth. No where did I say that either extreme is the only way to go. I did say that the prior extreme is used much more frequently than the latter, and in that way this story is different and interesting. Of course there concepts that would fall in between, and some would say that those concepts have been used to some extent here, but even neglecting that, the original point stands that the story is interesting (in my and many others opinion) because it goes against standard "end of the world" type scenarios.

Ryan Thunder wrote: ... Honestly? No, not really. Almost everything that had potential has been handled in the most anticlimactic manner possible. The angel of death comes to mind. Oh, and the red tide..

You're certainly entitle to your opinion, as dim witted as it may be. Though you should realize that to many readers, there have been appropriately climactic scenes; your opinion is not fact. Further more, I feel bad for you if the only stories you find interesting are the ones where everything is an action movie and climax follows climax, but there is value in being subtle, in using symbolism, in using a myriad of other literary techniques to make a good story.

Ryan Thunder wrote: What, you think I commented for your benefit, you irrelevant sack of shit?

Calling me irrelevant is the surest sign to date of your self-importance and pompus nature. You're obviously commenting to my benefit now, as we are the only ones arguing in this thread. I simply expressed entertainment in being able to easily refute your ridiculous attacks against a story that I find interesting and entertaining, as well as the simplicity of coaxing you into an argument (with someone you find "irrelevant") in which you have done nothing but make yourself look foolish and arrogant.

Please, continue. For the entertainment of the masses.

Oh man is that glorious, I can't wait to see what happens from here, but it's looking good for Michael. Yahweh doesn't know the new rules or even that the game's changed. Of course that goes for almost all of this book, and I'm looking forward to it biting him.

The times, they are a-changin...

I wonder how soon word of this little disagreement will make it Earthside?

oooohhh...pretty lights...

There's gotta be some instruments going crazy from the sharp increase in electromagnetic forces, the humans will probably send in a spy drone or something to see what the hell is going on.

Awesome chapter, how's that for climactic?

iidave wrote: They only have to know that "big metal box on threads = dangerous, do not go near". But thats not the point here. You wrote Satan as an arrogant idiot and he acted like one. I'm just speculating about what would happen if Satan was smart and cunning.

No matter how smart and cunning Satan was, explain how "big metal box on threads = dangerous, do not go near" (which is the only intel that would be coming back to him, given the understanding of his messengers) would give him any useful information as to what he was supposed to do about it.

Stuart wrote:
Therefore if Satan was intelligent he would have sent more than just one berserker at a time and used them much more often.

No, if Satan was intelligent (by the standards of his time) he wouldn't do any such. Berserkers have to port near Nephilim. All they would do is create chaos among the civilians, which is pointless because it doesn't solve the problem of the army on your doorsetp. There were no dumb demons in this story, only demons who had insufficient data with which to create an ideal way of dealing with the humans.

Ask somebody who wears an aluminum hat IRL why he does so. I'm quoting the answer I got.

I'm gonna have to go with "NO U" on this one. Demon is standing in front of you. The hat protects the top of your head and maybe the sides and back (depends on design). If you made eye contact there would only be your face between the demon's brain (transmitter) and your brain (receiver). Now tell me, how does the hat protect you then?

[/quote]
This I leave to the sciency people. I was always in it for the descriptions of how warfighting works. Story-wise, I do feel that the tinfoil hats thing was a bit anti-climatic, but I suppose there's actually a sciency reason behind it. Plus I personally am willing to make an allowance via Rule of Funny.

As for the rest...I must say that I don't find it anti-climatic at all. All the military threats humanity have faced were big, and they had to spend a lot of effort, men, materiel, etc to bring them down. As for the Red Tide and the Anthrax, they just illustrate that Heaven and Hell are fighting a big tech gap, such that even their bioweapons are nowhere to the same level as ours. And Uriel...it took half this book to kill him. While there was never any doubt that he would buy it, there *was* always the question of when, and that too serves as dramatic tension.

Anyway, on to the chapter...

At the four corners of the room stood the four living creatures, chanting their ceaseless cry: “Holy, holy, holy is the Lord God Almighty, who was, and is, and is to come;” and the twenty-four members of the Private Choir. They were ancient even by the angels' standards, and were constantly on their faces before the throne, murmuring, “You are worthy, our Lord and God, to receive glory and honor and power, for you created all things, and by your will they were created and have their being." Time was, their voices had outstripped even the living creatures in volume, but even here they were not free from time's ravages. An astute observer might look closely into their eyes and see the misery and despair there. Singing the same praises for untold millennia was not as heavenly as it sounded. Soon, their misery would be ended, one way or another.

Does this paragraph look recycled? I'm fairly certain I saw it somewhere in Armageddon????...

Man, Michael and Yahweh are going at it. Is it bad that I immediately thought "Macross" when the whole bit about music came along XD? On the other hand, if it *was* mind synchronization that creates energy, then where does the torture thing fit in? Or was it just a lot of "ow, this hurts" count as synchronization? And those 24 Elders are quite...odd-looking, to say the least.

Go Michael, kick his ass!

Michael made that waaay too personal. He should have just launched a bolt at Yahweh's heart suddenly when he was in the middle of prostrating himself. But I suppose this is very personal to him.

Also, green-skinned, silver-haired, two-thumbed Elders? Are these just another Heavenly subspecies, or is this our glimpse of other races from Universe-A that Heaven subjugated?

P.S.

If I wanted to go too far I would call you a apogenous, bovaristic, coprolalial, dasypygal, excerebrose, facinorous, gnathonic, hircine, ithyphallic, jumentous, kyphotic, labrose, mephitic, napiform, oligophrenial, papuliferous, quisquilian, rebarbative, saponaceous, thersitical, unguinous, ventripotent, wlatsome, xylocephalous, yirning zoophyte.

Are those all English words? And are they all insults? I can't even pronounce some of them.

Erra wrote:Awesome chapter, how's that for climactic?

It's an improvement, I'll concede.

GenghisQuan wrote:Does this paragraph look recycled? I'm fairly certain I saw it somewhere in Armageddon????...

It isn't recycling so much as closing the circle; the text section is very similar to the that used the first time Michael-Lan is going to see Yahweh. Now, this is the last time he will be going to see Yahweh (one way or the other). So, I deliberately used a very similar section to underline the circular nature of the situation

Is it bad that I immediately thought "Macross" when the whole bit about music came along XD?

I don't know. What's Macross?

On the other hand, if it *was* mind synchronization that creates energy, then where does the torture thing fit in? Or was it just a lot of "ow, this hurts" count as synchronization?

Satan being a sadistic PoS thought that causing massive suffering would liberate human energies for his own use. he was wrong. That's the ultimate irony and brutality of Hell. It wasn't just eternal torture, it was utterly futile as well. All that suffering was for nothing.

And those 24 Elders are quite...odd-looking, to say the least.

Yes, Spoiler

Stuart wrote:

Is it bad that I immediately thought "Macross" when the whole bit about music came along XD?

I don't know. What's Macross?

Anime series with awesome music, missile spam, and mechs.

Text in spoilers regarding the Elders

So it is as I thought.

GenghisQuan wrote: This I leave to the sciency people. I was always in it for the descriptions of how warfighting works. Story-wise, I do feel that the tinfoil hats thing was a bit anti-climatic, but I suppose there's actually a sciency reason behind it. Plus I personally am willing to make an allowance via Rule of Funny.

The tinfoil hat started as rule of funny but when I studied it, I realized it makes a scary amount of sense (scary because it really does make sense and if the stipulate is true - there really are voices trying to make them do things - the it would work)> How it works is actually quite easy to envisage. The tinfoil hat is along the lines of a baseball cap or a French Kepi that comes down low over the eyebrows and provides cover down to the nape of the neck (this is actually described in the text). Some actually have a kepi-like screen (originally intende dto stop the back of the neck getting sunburned) that extends further down at the back so the brain is fully encased in a helisphere of conductive metal. Now, start with a radiation source above it and draw out the radiation emission (remember this is an area effect, not a laser-beam like path. It's a field, not a beam; it has to be to allow multiple crowd effects. Draw the field propagation from above the human head (since daemons are bigger than humans) and the tinfoil cap cuts out all the incident radiation from reaching the brain. Completely. Now, lower the radiation source and the cap still protects the brain even when the source is at the same level as the face. As it drops still lower, the cap still shields the brain with only a tiny proportion of said brain being exposed. The source has to be very close and quite far below the head before enough of the brain is exposed to be significant. That's perfectly standard shielding technology.

Nematocyst wrote: Anime series with awesome music, missile spam, and mechs.

Ahhh, thank you. Such things are unknown to me; I don't like cartoons and their ilk as a genre. I don't even like Tom and Jerry. So I know very little about them except for odd bits I've caught by accident

Stuart wrote:

GenghisQuan wrote:Is it bad that I immediately thought "Macross" when the whole bit about music came along XD?

I don't know. What's Macross?

You might be more familiar with it as the first of a number of series that got spliced together when dubbed to create Robotech. While the song theme has been in there from the beginning, I imagine GenghisQuan is probably thinking more of the sequels to that, where song has literally been used to power weapons, and to motivate/co-ordinate/sync fleets.

Morilore wrote: If I wanted to go too far I would call you a apogenous, bovaristic, coprolalial, dasypygal, excerebrose, facinorous, gnathonic, hircine, ithyphallic, jumentous, kyphotic, labrose, mephitic, napiform, oligophrenial, papuliferous, quisquilian, rebarbative, saponaceous, thersitical, unguinous, ventripotent, wlatsome, xylocephalous, yirning zoophyte. Are those all English words? And are they all insults? I can't even pronounce some of them.

Some of them are medical. It means an impotent, conceited, obscene, hairy-buttocked, brainless, wicked, toadying, goatish, indecent, stable-smelling, hunchbacked, thick-lipped, stinking, turnip-shaped, feeble-minded, pimply, trashy, repellent, smarmy, foul-mouthed, greasy, gluttonous, loathsome, wooden-headed, whining, extremely low form of animal life. It's called an Abecadarian Insult. They can be good fun.

That was quite clever use of the ABC. And none of those are actual swear words! Awesome.

Erra wrote:There's gotta be some instruments going crazy from the sharp increase in electromagnetic forces, the humans will probably send in a spy drone or something to see what the hell is going on.

I'm half expecting the fight to be cut short by cruise missiles or bunker-buster bombs or something similar. The human forces have to have mapped out the city by now, they're almost certainly keeping an eye on the big important-looking building in the center. A sudden increase in activity, electromagnetic noise and flashes of light and fleeing civilians, would be reasonably interpreted by the humans as Yahweh preparing some sort of counterattack. The reasonable response would be to blow the crap out of it before the enemy is ready.

Nice Job Stuart! Now, for mood music, I recommend this:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4qNP6rAe ... re=related

Now, let the Clash of the Titans begin!

Gents, place your bets, and get some popcorn!

Stuart wrote: "Oh, shut up."

This. This is...just this. The single crowning moment of awesome in either or both books of the series (so far). The build up to it, then the execution...flawless.

Although I will admit that I'm just waiting for a couple of bunker busters to come through the ceiling just as Michael has defeated Yah-Yah and cast him down. Justice likes poetry as much as the next abstract concept, after all.

Erra wrote:There's gotta be some instruments going crazy from the sharp increase in electromagnetic forces, the humans will probably send in a spy drone or something to see what the hell is going on.

Yeah, but they won't see anything through the walls. At least, as long as the walls are still standing, and I'd expect their basic structure to hold up well enough even if the marble finish doesn't.

Awesome chapter, how's that for climactic?

Freaking sweet is what it is.

GenghisQuan wrote:Anyway, on to the chapter...

At the four corners of the room stood the four living creatures, chanting their ceaseless cry: “Holy, holy, holy is the Lord God Almighty, who was, and is, and is to come;” and the twenty-four members of the Private Choir. They were ancient even by the angels' standards, and were constantly on their faces before the throne, murmuring, “You are worthy, our Lord and God, to receive glory and honor and power, for you created all things, and by your will they were created and have their being." Time was, their voices had outstripped even the living creatures in volume, but even here they were not free from time's ravages. An astute observer might look closely into their eyes and see the misery and despair there. Singing the same praises for untold millennia was not as heavenly as it sounded. Soon, their misery would be ended, one way or another.

Does this paragraph look recycled? I'm fairly certain I saw it somewhere in Armageddon????...

You did. He copied the description of the Temple verbatim; changing nothing but Michael's reactions. Second section of chapter 32 of Armageddon.

Man, Michael and Yahweh are going at it. Is it bad that I immediately thought "Macross" when the whole bit about music came along XD? On the other hand, if it *was* mind synchronization that creates energy, then where does the torture thing fit in? Or was it just a lot of "ow, this hurts" count as synchronization? And those 24 Elders are quite...odd-looking, to say the least!

Well, Satan might not have been getting any power from the torture, or not much- incoherent mindpower compared to coherent power.

The Elders may well be from some servitor race the angels recruited and discarded in the distant past. If you think they're weird, you should see the "four living creatures..."

Simon_Jester wrote: You did. He copied the description of the Temple verbatim; changing nothing but Michael's reactions. Second section of chapter 32 of Armageddon.

That's changed significantly since the original posted version; I retconned that particular section when getting the hard copy ready. As I said, the whole thing is a circle; Michael is back to the beginning and the section was deliberately taken to reflect that.

Great job Stuart! It was amusing to watch Yahweh try to figure out what exactly was going on.

Would Yahweh's relative (I'm thinking of Casear's patron) still be willing to help him out? He might be a jerk, but he still is family if my interpretations are correct.

I wonder if Michael could tap into the power of even more Angels if he had simply installed loudspeakers around the entire Eternal City?

Stuart wrote:Some of them are medical. It means an impotent, conceited, obscene, hairy-buttocked, brainless, wicked, toadying, goatish, indecent, stable-smelling, hunchbacked, thick-lipped, stinking, turnip-shaped, feeble-minded, pimply, trashy, repellent, smarmy, foul-mouthed, greasy, gluttonous, loathsome, wooden-headed, whining, extremely low form of animal life. It's called an Abecadarian Insult. They can be good fun.

Ah, Bowler; we know thy wit well. I don't recall that very many of them have ever been written, am I wrong?

Stuart wrote:

Simon_Jester wrote: You did. He copied the description of the Temple verbatim; changing nothing but Michael's reactions. Second section of chapter 32 of Armageddon.

That's changed significantly since the original posted version; I retconned that particular section when getting the hard copy ready. As I said, the whole thing is a circle; Michael is back to the beginning and the section was deliberately taken to reflect that.

Fair enough. I'm not criticizing the intentional parallel (or, if you prefer, circle); I'm just noting it it so that poor Ghengis Quan doesn't think he's going insane.

Stuart wrote:a[n] apogenous, bovaristic, coprolalial, dasypygal, excerebrose, facinorous, gnathonic, hircine, ithyphallic, jumentous, kyphotic, labrose, mephitic, napiform, oligophrenial, papuliferous, quisquilian, rebarbative, saponaceous, thersitical, unguinous, ventripotent, wlatsome, xylocephalous, yirning zoophyte.

I feel the need to look up how to pronounce one or two of those ("daisy pie gal"? "dass ip eye gill?" "day see pi gel?"), then memorise and rehearse this for later use...

I'm still imagining the Last Battle With Yahweh as being a (heh-heh) God-zilla rampage through the Eternal City, with Yah-Yah all iridescent like a giant disco-themed kaiju letting off artillery-scale energy bolts and tornadoes, with tanks firing at him while fighter planes buzz him.

But it's a good opening for Michael. I'm wondering if any of those poor Living Creatures will make kamikaze runs on Yah-yah, going postal after all these millennia?

And Michael's Great Insult ought to be made into an illuminated text, possibly even a t-shirt.