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maybe theirs a bomb in the cart.
Also, it's kind of funny that Al-sohl got his virgins after all, and I think Dumah and Fluffy will die in the rocket attack.

Oh shit oh shit oh shit oh shit

Are we about to see the Israelis nuke Jerusalem?

Darth Yan wrote:maybe theirs a bomb in the cart.

There's.

Anyways, it probably isn't a bomb, since blowing up an angel that regularly visits Earth wouldn't be a good idea. We are trying to get into heaven, not kill the only person that could help us get there. More likely, its some gizmo that records the signals of the portal, something which they mentioned a while back.

Why would they waste a nuclear missile on that animal? Surely they could take it out with normal missiles?

We go from badly-injured-beast-withdrawing-to-regroup to OMFG HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF CASUALTIES in the (nearly zero?) time it takes for someone to reappear in Hell. Someone's being lied to.

For that matter, if most casualties are gas, presumably biologically-projected... in a city of ~50mi^2... with tons of valleys and ravines and stuff to impede the flow of a dense gas... and the subs have only just appeared in the story?

I would not bet strongly that the reports they're receiving are accurate, or necessarily even in good faith.

Darth Ruinus wrote:Why would they waste a nuclear missile on that animal? Surely they could take it out with normal missiles?

Have you ever known the Israeli military NOT to overdo the dakka?

You know what they say There is No Kill Like Overkill. Also the contradiction did confuse me. Maybe it's one of the Chayot we haven't seen yet.

erik_t wrote:We go from badly-injured-beast-withdrawing-to-regroup to OMFG HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF CASUALTIES in the (nearly zero?) time it takes for someone to reappear in Hell. Someone's being lied to.

There's an unspecified but significant time gap between somebody dying on Earth and their Second Life body appearing on the Plateau of Minos in Hell. There's something going on between. In fact, that time gap is around two hours.

For that matter, if most casualties are gas, presumably biologically-projected... in a city of ~50mi^2... with tons of valleys and ravines and stuff to impede the flow of a dense gas...

The city is getting trampled and generally (sometimes literally) shat on. Also, the gas/smoke is projected downwards. Jerusalem has a population of 757,000; they had only a limited time to get out. The chaos would be unimaginable. A hell of a lot of people are simply trapped in thec ity.

and the subs have only just appeared in the story?

That's why it's called the Silent Service

I would not bet strongly that the reports they're receiving are accurate, or necessarily even in good faith.

Given the Israeli military's monumental incompetence when it comes to information handling, you can bet your life on it. The IDF is not good at operational-level situational awareness in rapidly changing circumstances. Tel Aviv is probably way behind the situation on the ground.

Stuart wrote:Given the Israeli military's monumental incompetence when it comes to information handling, you can bet your life on it.

That's not exactly right; the Israeli military is very bad when it comes to disseminating needed information to users far from the center, but when a bit of information requires everybody who knows it to STFU, they set an enviable standard of silence.

Well, foreshadowing strongly points to Michael being one dead angel soon enough. All the talk of him being captured and cooperating with the humans ignores his main flaw, arrogance which is firmly on display with the Burmese, as well as the limited information available to the humans. To them, he's just Yahweh's greatest general and if he shows signs of understanding humanity that makes him even more of a threat. They obviously have no idea of his plans against Yahweh or his sympathetic attitude so killing him before he finds ways to do more damage is a great priority.

That said, he is a striking character because he's the first even remotely appealing antagonist, and obviously a good deal more competent than Belial. If his death amounts to "and the humans smuggled in a nuclear device onboard the tram he was too blind to inspect properly" it would be a bit of a disappointment. Now it may be that the device aboard the tram is instead a portal generator, or some electronic signal generator that a sensitive can home in on, if only because killing Michael would have probably been a lot less complicated if someone had just set up an ambush for him when he came to collect the goods. But that perhaps delays the moment of reckoning just a bit, since human forces flooding into heaven are more likely to shoot first, shoot again, shoot some more, and then maybe ask some questions if anybody's still intact enough to wheeze them out.

Stuart wrote:

and the subs have only just appeared in the story?

That's why it's called the Silent Service

Obviously.

That doesn't mean it's not hugely out of left field from a storytelling POV.

It was said that Al-Sohl's sacrifice gave tens of thousands time to get out before the beast hit jerusalem. How many were still in the city when the beast recovered, and how many got out? Also, would nuking the entire city cause an outcry?

Darth Yan wrote:It was said that Al-Sohl's sacrifice gave tens of thousands time to get out before the beast hit jerusalem. How many were still in the city when the beast recovered, and how many got out? Also, would nuking the entire city cause an outcry?

Jerusalem, like the rest of Israel, is PACKED. Most of the population is already dead, don't forget, so it's not as if a nuke will do more damage. Besides, if the bitch isn't nuked now, Jerusalem - and with it, Israel - gets destroyed anyway. Not that there's much of the city left to nuke.

Hmmmmm.....you'd think that I'd be more upset about a human city being destroyed....I AM upset, It's just...considering how much trouble the damn city in question has caused....
Ha, still can't wait to see what happens next. Next chapter is potentially epic. ...Wait, scratch that. ALL chapters feel epic.

Also as a side point (well, not really. It's more of a random point but this is the best place to ask.), does anyone know what kind of gun this is? It sits in front of the Tulane ROTC building. It's interesting to me, so I thought I'd ask the authority on military stuff.



I'd appreciate the help greatly.

How on Earth were the Israelis - of all people - unable to send helicopter gunships and Merkavas at the Scarlet Beast? I mean, if Wuffles got killed by a base full of troops, then certainly Israel would have enough firepower to use on the Scarlet Beast to kill it before reaching a situation wherein nuking their own cities would be considered, rite?

Because I doubt the Israelis would contribute so much shit to the HEA that their own forces on Earth and Israel woud be depleted (to the point of having no defense against giant monsters or the goddamn Egyptians, Syrians and whatnot except for their international goodwill).

Jamesfirecat wrote:Edit: Oh and finally an update yay!

Okay, it seems sort of silly that the guy driving the truck struggles to make an effort to consciously release his dead man's switch, isn't the entire point of a dead man's switch that you don't have to do anything, it'll naturally end up getting released once you go limp and die?

From the text, it's not clear that he struggled to let go of the switch, only that it was the last thing he consciously did. Which, since it's wired to about a quarter-ton of explosives, it would be. All we know is that he got close enough that he decided "Ah-ha, I had better release the switch now," before being completely incapacitated by the gas/powder/whatever.

erik_t wrote:We go from badly-injured-beast-withdrawing-to-regroup to OMFG HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF CASUALTIES in the (nearly zero?) time it takes for someone to reappear in Hell. Someone's being lied to.

Seems likely, unless there's something very exotic going on to spread that stuff.

Emerson33260 wrote:

Stuart wrote:Given the Israeli military's monumental incompetence when it comes to information handling, you can bet your life on it.

That's not exactly right; the Israeli military is very bad when it comes to disseminating needed information to users far from the center, but when a bit of information requires everybody who knows it to STFU, they set an enviable standard of silence.

That would make them good at not handling information, but to be good at handling information you must do more than be good at not doing it when appropriate. Telling people what they need to know is more important than not telling people what they don't need to know; if the Israelis have trouble with that then they have trouble period.

Darth Yan wrote:It was said that Al-Sohl's sacrifice gave tens of thousands time to get out before the beast hit jerusalem. How many were still in the city when the beast recovered, and how many got out? Also, would nuking the entire city cause an outcry?

Most likely; there's a major "what the hell were you thinking lobbing a nuclear cruise missile at the thing while it was still in the middle of Jerusalem!? Now not only is the place a pile of rubble, it's a pile of RADIOACTIVE rubble!"

Using a nuclear Popeye to take out Fluffy* instead of relying on more conventional artillery and tank attacks is ludicrous overkill, and this will probably be realized after the fact even if it isn't realized before the fact. Please note that Tekumah has not been given the order to fire anything, let alone nuclear SLCMs.

*Dumah called the Scarlet Beast Fluffy, right?

Shroom Man 777 wrote:How on Earth were the Israelis - of all people - unable to send helicopter gunships and Merkavas at the Scarlet Beast? I mean, if Wuffles got killed by a base full of troops, then certainly Israel would have enough firepower to use on the Scarlet Beast to kill it before reaching a situation wherein nuking their own cities would be considered, rite?

Because I doubt the Israelis would contribute so much shit to the HEA that their own forces on Earth and Israel woud be depleted (to the point of having no defense against giant monsters or the goddamn Egyptians, Syrians and whatnot except for their international goodwill).

The helicopters would get crushified much like the Skyhawks; tanks would no doubt be available but would take time to get to the scene. And might not do all that much good depending on how rugged Fluffy is; remember that it took two hours to bring down Wuffles- and there were tanks on the scene. Sabot rounds just aren't all that effective, and it's quite possible that like the Americans, the Israelis have sent all their high explosive tank rounds to Hell, where they are badly needed.

On top of that, I imagine that the Israelis would be suffering from a serious manpower shortage post-Message, relative to other nations that were not founded specifically to provide a safe (heavily fortified) haven for a religious group. They might have sent more of their stuff to Hell than prudence dictated, especially if they knew the Egyptians and Syrians were sending comparable chunks of their armies. The strain of keeping their chunk of the HEA supplied may have eaten into their ability to provide a second-string defense for their own territory.

Why would the Israelis send anything to Hell if the Egyptians and Syrians sent shit there, anyway? The Israelis won't really give a crap about where in hell the Egyptians and the Syrians are sending their troops.

Shroom Man 777 wrote:Why would the Israelis send anything to Hell if the Egyptians and Syrians sent shit there, anyway? The Israelis won't really give a crap about where in hell the Egyptians and the Syrians are sending their troops.

They don't want to be upstaged/wish to capture Nazi's (we finally get Hitler!)/anger at God breaking chosen people promise, etc.

erik_t wrote:and the subs have only just appeared in the story?

Why would they appear earlier? Submarines really don't factor much in this war as it stands. You don't just throw in a bunch of characters if their presence isn't going to serve some purpose in the story.

That said, subs were present in the second chapter of Armaggeddon???

Why *WOULD* the Israeli Submarine Service possibly appear before now? They just weren't relevant to the story until now.

Darth Ruinus wrote:

Darth Yan wrote:maybe theirs a bomb in the cart.

There's.

Anyways, it probably isn't a bomb, since blowing up an angel that regularly visits Earth wouldn't be a good idea. We are trying to get into heaven, not kill the only person that could help us get there. More likely, its some gizmo that records the signals of the portal, something which they mentioned a while back.

Why would they waste a nuclear missile on that animal? Surely they could take it out with normal missiles?

A nuke blown up on the heaven side after he gets through would, if I remember correctly, make the portal much bigger. the bigger a portal, the harder it is to shut down. That would make Myanmar our point of entry into heaven. Considering the name of the story, too, I don't think the fall of heaven is going to be the climax.

Shroom Man 777 wrote:How on Earth were the Israelis - of all people - unable to send helicopter gunships and Merkavas at the Scarlet Beast? I mean, if Wuffles got killed by a base full of troops, then certainly Israel would have enough firepower to use on the Scarlet Beast to kill it before reaching a situation wherein nuking their own cities would be considered, rite?

Because I doubt the Israelis would contribute so much shit to the HEA that their own forces on Earth and Israel woud be depleted (to the point of having no defense against giant monsters or the goddamn Egyptians, Syrians and whatnot except for their international goodwill)..

The Egyptians and Syrians sent in quite large numbers of their troops, each at around about several divisions if I remember correctly. Additionally, a lot of Arab divisions are understrength to begin with, so that would probably cut even more into the Arab OoB, and the soldiers in Hell would be the mechanized boys (you don't expect Egyptian and Syrian light infantry to accomplish much against Israel, and vice versa). And the Israelis have nukes.

KlavoHunter/Peptuck wrote:Why *WOULD* the Israeli Submarine Service possibly appear before now? They just weren't relevant to the story until now.

The same reason the YAL-1 was first mentioned in Chapter 27, having not yet gone into battle against Uriel. If the Israelies are still toying with the idea of launching a nuke in Chapter 50 then I withdraw my complaint.

Stuart is pretty heavy into foreshadowing, for better or for worse. When something then appears completely without notice, it's rather jarring.

I can totally imagine Micheal unintentionally bringing some sort of portal signal device (or hell, maybe even a nephilim) to his club, the human armies breaking in via portal, and then everyone forgets what they're doing when they realize "Holy shit it's Buddy Holly!"

erik_t wrote:

KlavoHunter/Peptuck wrote:Why *WOULD* the Israeli Submarine Service possibly appear before now? They just weren't relevant to the story until now.

The same reason the YAL-1 was first mentioned in Chapter 27, having not yet gone into battle against Uriel. If the Israelies are still toying with the idea of launching a nuke in Chapter 50 then I withdraw my complaint.

Stuart is pretty heavy into foreshadowing, for better or for worse. When something then appears completely without notice, it's rather jarring.

Hmm, I wonder for what reason Petraeus and Obama and the rest of the 15 would want to launch a nuke into Heaven (I can't see the Beast lasting that long). Perhaps to send a statement to the rest of Heaven's power structure? It would seem fitting to use the Israelis since Dumah's attack sounds like a WMD.

Um, what? Nobody said anything about nuking Heaven. We still can't get there.