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Sounds like ya'll have a good plan going.... *wishes he could come *

I've just been wondering what's the back-up plan for if/when you guys run into some of the more "special" creatures

No one's stupid enough to go into Moria, so we can leave the Balrog out. Trolls, and esp. Oliphants, are gonna be a bitch to take down with just small arms fire (maybe concentrated small arms, but the SB crew would probably run away too fast to help )

I would be a bit worried, however, if any Nazgûl showed up. Now, I'm not saying they'd be invulnerable to any of your weapons (that's a topic for another debate) but that's not exactly how they work. Shadow and fear are their weapons, and who knows if all but the most brave from this rag-tag group ran in fear before them (again, probably all the SB crew ). Also to consider is their Black Breath (which can render one unconsious for awhile, and I don't recall if gas masks were included in the scenerio) among some other tricks they have.

The Nazgul probably can't be killed by men. Fine then, we send out one of our girls to shoot him. Hell, we can go beg Bombadil for some of his special swords if we need one to finish the job.

phongn wrote:The Nazgul probably can't be killed by men. Fine then, we send out one of our girls to shoot him. Hell, we can go beg Bombadil for some of his special swords if we need one to finish the job.

No but as I recall fire and fast running water both ruin thier day....

It doesn't kill them though; I want them dead so we don't deal with them wreaking havoc.

phongn wrote:It doesn't kill them though; I want them dead so we don't deal with them wreaking havoc.

True, they can be a nuisance....but remember with fire its sort of a "Go to jail do not pass Go..." type thing....return to Mordor.....

Regarding the Ring, standard paranoia precautions would work fine. Once we acquire the ring (which we don't have to worry about for at least 1 year, until the FOTR begins), it is kept in a lockbox, not on someone's person. It is always watched by at least three people. If it's taken out for lab work, it is manipulated by a pair of tongs, and not held by hand, again with at least three people in attendance at all times. There, now was that so difficult? Remember: we have the advantage of knowing exactly what this thing is and what its dangers are.

Regarding the Nazgul, they are not immune to physical weapons AFAIK. It should be quite possible to shoot them from long range before they can affect you with any of their close-range antics.

Patrick Ogard brought up some good points with regards to creative use of existing equipment. Although the biggest concern in the first few months is going to be the simple practicalities of establishing our presence, securing our location, making contacts with the locals, getting in shape, training, and preventing starvation, disease from hygiene issues, etc. as previously mentioned.

As far as the Ring goes, Mike's precautions should be good enough but Tom Bombadil was mentioned, and in the book they determine that he is immune to the ring, being so infatuated with the River Daughter-- he is just not responsible enough to be a good warden for the Ring forever.

Remember, at this time, 19 years before the Quest happens, no one is looking for the Ring, ('cept Gollum) and no armies have been raised to grab it. No Nazgul have been raised, etc. We may grab the Ring, lock it up at Bombadil's, and then start preperations.

Still, though, we're not totally playing to our strengths-- we're too small a force to take them on in a stand-up fight, so the situation calls for Guerrilla Warfare/Light Infantry tactics. We are primarily a brain force, rather than a brawn one, and most of our folks are going to be R&D types. Marina is right, we can peddle tech and knowhow to the locals. We can even make steam engines, at least for ships (it'd take awhile to lay down rails everywhere).

HumVees can mount light cannons or heavy ballistae, or tow artillery and mortars. But let's not get to bogged down with heavy ordinance; we're better off light fast and mobile. Our best task will be to train and enlighten the locals, rahter than try to take on Mordor ourselves.

We'll especially have to get close to the Dwarves, they have the metals we'll need.

And if it is permissible, some of our banned/crossover users or military that leave an empty slot open on the roster should be filled by specialists of our choice, and in this case I think we should strongly consider Lady Tevar's pov. I don't know anything about medieval fighting, armor and sword maintenance, etc. She can teach what I don't know.

Entertainment and Companionship: I'd assume we can have a TV brought in, and a VCR or DVD player; everyone bring some disks. The books and music ideas is also good. And while Lady Tevar graciously points out her femininity as an asset, I don't she and the rest of the small team of women here would each be ready to deal with 350 pent up guys apiece. Seriously, there's females in Middle Earth and maybe they dig guys with cute accents. Especially when we start spreading around amazing knowledge to them...

And as for WMD's... isn't ricin an easy homebrew? And if we build a Zepp, why not just fly the ring over to the mountain and chuck it in?

Coyote wrote: And if it is permissible, some of our banned/crossover users or military that leave an empty slot open on the roster should be filled by specialists of our choice, and in this case I think we should strongly consider Lady Tevar's pov. I don't know anything about medieval fighting, armor and sword maintenance, etc. She can teach what I don't know.

My personal area of speciality, I've done a bit of teaching on weapons combat in the past. So far my personal best stands at 15 sword armed opponenets at once. My best while drunk stands at two armed opponents at once...though that was one handed as I had to continue drinking with the other hand

I'm glad though that people are remembering knowing the details of how to fight in the local way will be of use....just recall Sun-Tzu.....

[quote="Coyote"]As far as the Ring goes, Mike's precautions should be good enough but Tom Bombadil was mentioned, and in the book they determine that he is immune to the ring, being so infatuated with the River Daughter-- he is just not responsible enough to be a good warden for the Ring forever.

Remember, at this time, 19 years before the Quest happens, no one is looking for the Ring, ('cept Gollum) and no armies have been raised to grab it. No Nazgul have been raised, etc. We may grab the Ring, lock it up at Bombadil's, and then start preperations.
[quote]

Sauron and Saruman where looking for it. Saruman had been searching for hundreds of years IIRC, and Sauron since the day he lost it 3000 years before. But without a starting point they didn't have much luck

Also:

1) Even if Sauron can identify the location of the Ring, we have superior mobility with our Hummers and can move it far away from its last known location much more quickly than he can get people to it.

2) If we've given up on melting it down on our own, we can put it in the lockbox and weld it shut, thus making it extremely difficult to open. Even if we don't have oxy-acetylene torches, we can just battery-weld it (I'm not making this up; you can weld with a car battery).

[quote]And as for WMD's... isn't ricin an easy homebrew? quote]

Ricin is pretty easy to make- it is processed from a type of bean, which any farmer can grow. It is also hideosly potent. It kills by causing your blood to become viscous throughout your whole body, the blood scabs in your veins. Inhaling even a very small dose ensures death within 2-3 days.

Anyway, I see the ring a potent weapon against Sauron- He is so bent on getting it- even when it probably isn't necessary. He can conquer the world just fine with the armies he has now. So, let him hunger after the ring. Pull him into a game of hide and go seek, while preparations are made to break his power through less arcane means. Once we have the ring, we have his attention- and we can direct it in any direction we want. Sun Tzu would love to be in a situation like that.

Thirdfain wrote: Anyway, I see the ring a potent weapon against Sauron- He is so bent on getting it- even when it probably isn't necessary. He can conquer the world just fine with the armies he has now. So, let him hunger after the ring. Pull him into a game of hide and go seek, while preparations are made to break his power through less arcane means. Once we have the ring, we have his attention- and we can direct it in any direction we want. Sun Tzu would love to be in a situation like that.

I have a really amusing vision of that old "got your nose" thing happening on a continental scale.....

Darth Wong wrote:Also:

1) Even if Sauron can identify the location of the Ring, we have superior mobility with our Hummers and can move it far away from its last known location much more quickly than he can get people to it.

2) If we've given up on melting it down on our own, we can put it in the lockbox and weld it shut, thus making it extremely difficult to open. Even if we don't have oxy-acetylene torches, we can just battery-weld it (I'm not making this up; you can weld with a car battery).

I've actually done wleding with a car battery before. All that is required is enough current to create a very hot spark and boom instant welder.

The spark of an arc welder gets as hot as the surface of the sun for a VER short time. I'm thinking that might be able to melt the ring down. If the surface of the sun can't do it only Orodruin can then.

Sr.mal wrote:

Darth Wong wrote:Also:

1) Even if Sauron can identify the location of the Ring, we have superior mobility with our Hummers and can move it far away from its last known location much more quickly than he can get people to it.

2) If we've given up on melting it down on our own, we can put it in the lockbox and weld it shut, thus making it extremely difficult to open. Even if we don't have oxy-acetylene torches, we can just battery-weld it (I'm not making this up; you can weld with a car battery).

I've actually done wleding with a car battery before. All that is required is enough current to create a very hot spark and boom instant welder.

Shouldn't be much different from using a standard arc welder (Ah, the joys of turning 2 bits of metal into 1...)

It's not really that different. A real arc welder will be able to generate higher temperatures and be a able to weld stronger welds and more of them. In a pinch though a car battery is good enough.

Even if we couldn't melt the Ring, we could simply throw it into a pool of molten steel and let it solidify into a block, thus encasing the Ring, making it inaccessible. Sauron could literally never find it, since no one would be able to wear it.

You know, he could always split the block in half.

Then you cover the steel block in glass, and toss it into the ocean. The glass makes the steel rust proof, and nobody'd ever see it again...

Be interesting to see how he would try to fish it out, given the limits of his technology as well as power persay to destroy said object.

Beowulf wrote:Then you cover the steel block in glass, and toss it into the ocean. The glass makes the steel rust proof, and nobody'd ever see it again...

Gandalf made references to things living in the oceans of the world. And something like the Watcher at the Moria gate might be able to haul a fairly large lump of steel along with it. Though surfacing would be a harder thing.

He also brought up the shifting seas, the idea was to destroy the ring for all ages and wipe out Saruon. Now we might not care aobut that, but I'd say seal it into somthing too heavy for one person to move if by some chance we cant destroy it. And then wait until it becomes possibul to take it to Mt Doom.

A 200 pound block of metal should suffice. If handles are welded on, it could be carried by two men and easily carted around in a Hummer (an option obviously not available to the locals).

hmmm we could show the locals how to make concrete Limestone,pot ash ,sand and water is the mixture I believe *chucles*spot weld said box and then we treat it like a stoolie in New Your give it a cement bath

You know, remembering those tight ranks of Uraki I saw in TTT I couldn't help but think about how effective Claymore mines would be against them, its not like they would be that hard to make either. If remote detonators were not avalible/could not be made then Im sure trip wires would work just fine. I doube Uraki have ever run across land mines or booby traps, just imagine what it w ould do to their moral.

I can't imagine something much worse for Orc morale than the drifting clouds of gaseous death we had planned earlier.