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Naval tomahawks? Wasn't that variant canceled because it was basically not any better than a Harpoon and probably had guidance issues, IIRC?

phongn wrote:This kind of work tends to be fairly customized for each customer, for obvious reasons. Furthermore, what if we sell our expertise to someone else? It's not like we're going to give all your signaling crypto and whatnot away (which we probably won't even see)

I will take your word for it....

Pretty damn big, especially if it's going to link multiple countries.

Let's start with Byzantium first. The rest can think over their problems on their own.

Heh, the IRT was planning on bidding for the backbone of the system. Oh, we'll sell missiles and guns too, but we're more interested in the system than the components of it.

Define backbone. What sort of missiles are you talking about.

Penalty fees?

That will be on the cards....

PeZook wrote:Just think about it: First Varangians ambush Marek in his palace, killing all the guards and dragging him out of bed in his underwear ; Then Shadow Asassins storm the palace, too, and the Varangians are now trying to protect Marek while using security checkpoints full of his dead bodyguards as cover.

Then Shadows fire a salvo of rocket artillery at the palace for good measure

I never intended to bring the bastard out alive, for this purpose The Black Hand has been dispatched to take him out. If Fingolfin's boys get in the way, too bad for them.

Also: Should the CSR go to war, you can count on the USSR to stand with you.

Am I the only one who sees a problem in multiple alliance membership?

DarthShady wrote: I never intended to bring the bastard out alive, for this purpose The Black Hand has been dispatched to take him out. If Fingolfin's boys get in the way, too bad for them.

You guys really should've coordinated that

DarthShady wrote:Am I the only one who sees a problem in multiple alliance membership?

I don't, as long as those alliances have similar goals. MESS & SNC may be problematic sometimes, but SNC & FUN isn't a very volatile combination.

Oh I agree on the SNC/FUN thing, but SNC/MESS might be a problem for Fingolfin.

And Goddamn your quote is messed up.

Fixed

Duchess of Zeon wrote:Naval tomahawks? Wasn't that variant canceled because it was basically not any better than a Harpoon and probably had guidance issues, IIRC?

I doubt there are other weapons to engage the enemy at 700-500 km distance - the striking range of the "Vulcan" missile - than fighters and Tomahawks.

Harpoons are too short-range, while the Tomahawk's range even without upgrades is impressive, 1500-2500 km, isn't it?

But if Tian Xia and Westchester's Burke class vessels don't have Tomahawks, they can only engage my group with fighters from CVS and CVNs, which even further eases the task and makes PRSF losses highly unlikely.

EDIT: Beowulf does have TacToms, I guess that seals it.

P.S. Did some rough calcs on ground troops of the warring parties and indicated the most possible course of PRSF armored assault.

Where the hell is the Uranium Mine anyway?

Raj, Coiler, check your PM's... Do we go forward with a 24-hour ultimatum?

Some explanations:

I figured 7 DDGs Beo and Czechmate have in the area have around 30 Tomahawks each making it 210, which is well within the tolerance capabilities of a defense screen made of 4 Sovremenny and 2 Slava class, as well as 18 MiG-29Ks fitted with the most modern RVV-AE missile (each fields 8 missiles, and it's PK against a slow target like a Tomahawk is certain).

PRSF has 32 Vukans on it's Slava cruisers, of which it wasted 24 on Beo's carrier directly, as well as 6 AS-4 "Kitchen" missiles launched from Tu-22s since it's the biggest threat out there.

Beowulf and Czechmate have many fighters, but not so many long-range missiles to engage the PRSFN.

Simpler than S-300 AAMs on Slava and other ships can't engage the Tomahawk reliably, but it's CIWS as well as Gorshkov CIWS can.

Yeah, Stas, I know your ships only do patrols. Problem is, if one of them gets misaken for a PRSF ship (say,by a submarine) and torpedoed/missile'd, the whole thing threatens to escalate into a conflict between the MESS and the SNC.

And, of course, the CSR is pretty much the only country which can really tell the PRSF "Okay guys, that's enough, stop your little war or we'll take your toys away", hence why the call for a ceasefire to everybody

Well, that's realistic - I won't be risking relations within the Slavic Confederacy for a bunch of incompetents on the other side of the world.

So I'm calling Selin to either force the PRSF to negotiate, or we are leaving.

Though really the Livorno decision was taken before I knew Westchester is not a sovereign nation...

Stas Bush wrote:Well, that's realistic - I won't be risking relations within the Slavic Confederacy for a bunch of incompetents on the other side of the world.

So I'm calling Selin to either force the PRSF to negotiate, or we are leaving.

Though really the Livorno decision was taken before I knew Westchester is not a sovereign nation...

Well, nobody forced the PRSF to go to war with anybody

They made an ill-conceived gamble, and trusted in aid from a country which had little interest in their conflict. Even if Westchester was a fully independent country, chances were either the FTO or the MESS would've gotten involved anyway. At best, they'd defeat and occupy Westchester and their overextended forces would get smacked down later.

At the same time, they foolishly think that if the CSR wants a naval base in their territorry and says it'll turn a "blind eye" to their wars, they can do whatever the fuck they want, without thinking how that makes their new overlords look to the world.

Also, with the benefit of hindsight we can say that if the FTO wasn't such a knee-jerk opposer of any and all foreign military presence, they could've avoided the war entirely by simply granting the CSR basing rights in exchange for you reining the PRSF in

Anyway, to avoid such idiocy in the future, we may help the PRSF recover from their crisis, provided they demilitarize, uh...quite a bit.

A brief look at some older ships in the RTN

Note: CIWS emplacement have 2x30mm gatling + IIR/RF/UV-guided missiles. PESA + EO/FLIR sensors.

Medium and long-range SAMs have active radar for terminal guidance

ILMS has IIR sensor for terminal guidance

Old Frigate



Long-hull OHP, SPS-49A(V) 2D radar, 1 CIWS, 48-cell Mk. 41 VLS (SM-2MR, ESSM, ASROC), 2x4 Harpoon, 3" Super Rapid, 2 Fast Forty, 2 Triple Torpedo, 2 MH-60, combat system updated in progress

Despite these frigates rather impressive armament for their size, they are effectively on the edge of their growth margin and their combat systems are not quite capable of handling mass incoming attack. Lack of phased-array radar and modern combat systems render it approaching obsolescence.

New Frigate



Based on old frigate hull, SPY-1F radar, Aegis combat system, 64-cell VLS (SM-2ER/MR, ASROC, Harpoon), 16-cell SDLS VLS (Quadpack ESSM) 3" Super Rapid, 2 CIWS, 2 Triple Torpedo, 2 MH-60

This is a much more capable and modern design than its progenitor, designed as a lower-cost Aegis platform to bolster numbers. Eventually planned to replace all older FFGs in service.

Destroyer

Picture

Extended-hull DDH design, NTU combat suite, SPS-48E 3D radar, SPS-49A(V) 2D radar, 128 VLS (SM-2MR/ER, ASROC, ESSM, TLAM), 2x5", 2x4 Harpoon (empty room amidship for more), 2 CIWS, 2 Triple Torpedo, 4 MH-60, combat system updates in progress

Currently deployed as DESRON leaders (twelve DESRONS, half of them attached to CVL groups). NTU upgrade permits it to handle more serious air and missile threats but lower data rate of mechanically-scanned radar reduces effectiveness in mass raids. Can command remotely-fired missiles. Large helo complement for ASW work.

Cruiser

Picture

Aegis combat system, SPY-1B(V) 3D radar, SPS-49A(V) 2D radar, (a lot of) VLS cells (SM-2MR/ER, ASROC, ESSM, TLAM), 5", 2x4 Harpoon, 2 CIWS, 2 Triple Torpedo, 2 MH-60, BMD upgrades in progress

Currently attached to CVB and amphibious ready groups. Design intended to defend against huge mass missile attack and also control other ships weapons systems via CEC. Peacetime deployments typically have it carrying less missiles than it can actually carry (deciding on 192 or 208 VLS).

Light Carrier (courtesy Howedar)



(This is in maximum loadout configuration, which it won't always be in)

Armed with a total of two SeaRAM launchers, relies on escorts and air wing for anything else. Upgrade to SPS-48E pending.

Unlisted

Burke-varient (possibly coming soon), CVB (not coming)

Dude you broke the page.

Also: Fingolfin, how do you want to end this?

DarthShady wrote:Dude you broke the page.

Also: Fingolfin, how do you want to end this?

Well.. we could end up starring at each other in Malek's throne room, with guns pointed at each other.

Fingolfin_Noldor wrote:

DarthShady wrote:Dude you broke the page.

Also: Fingolfin, how do you want to end this?

Well.. we could end up starring at each other in Malek's throne room, with guns pointed at each other.

And then the (accidental)shooting starts.

Whatever happens, Marek isn't leaving the throne room alive.

DarthShady wrote:

Fingolfin_Noldor wrote:

DarthShady wrote:Dude you broke the page.

Also: Fingolfin, how do you want to end this?

Well.. we could end up starring at each other in Malek's throne room, with guns pointed at each other.

And then the (accidental)shooting starts.

Whatever happens, Marek isn't leaving the throne room alive.

Can't we parade the fucker through the streets and let him get pelted by vegetables, before he gets publicly executed? It'd be more cruel.

PeZook wrote:Also, with the benefit of hindsight we can say that if the FTO wasn't such a knee-jerk opposer of any and all foreign military presence, they could've avoided the war entirely by simply granting the CSR basing rights in exchange for you reining the PRSF in.

And immediately make a paper tiger out of an organization founded with the explicit goal of keeping the Great Powers off our continent? Yeah, that sounds like a fantastic plan... That Shinra naval base in Baerne is bad enough, we don't need another, particularly not of such an obvious powermonger.

Fingolfin_Noldor wrote:

DarthShady wrote:

Fingolfin_Noldor wrote: Well.. we could end up starring at each other in Malek's throne room, with guns pointed at each other.

And then the (accidental)shooting starts.

Whatever happens, Marek isn't leaving the throne room alive.

Can't we parade the fucker through the streets and let him get pelted by vegetables, before he gets publicly executed? It'd be more cruel.

Al right, but his trial and execution will be in the USSR.

I'm making a post now, so wait for it.

SiegeTank wrote: And immediately make a paper tiger out of an organization founded with the explicit goal of keeping the Great Powers off our continent? Yeah, that sounds like a fantastic plan... That Shinra naval base in Baerne is bad enough, we don't need another, particularly not of such an obvious powermonger.

If you're going to be that restrictive about it, the FTO will fall apart sooner or later. And, of course, it's not "Your" continent, not as long as there are sovereign states there which don't give a fuck about the FTO: or worse, see it as a threat, and thus seek alliances with the big boys.

Basically, my political decision is to leave the PRSF - but not until Beowulf promptly responds to a naval attack.

It is done.

You may take him, but we really shouldn't put ourselves in these possible friendly fire incidents, we are not PeZookians after all.

PeZook wrote:If you're going to be that restrictive about it, the FTO will fall apart sooner or later. And, of course, it's not "Your" continent, not as long as there are sovereign states there which don't give a fuck about the FTO: or worse, see it as a threat, and thus seek alliances with the big boys.

And then we have tension and excitement, which makes for excellent storytelling -- what's the problem here, again? Look, of course in the end the FTO goal of keeping everybody else off the island is not actually achievable. I'm sure everyone realizes this in-context as well. That doesn't mean we can't be peeved off when Great Powers come barging into Frequesuan ports with absurdly gigantic fleets in the middle of a war claiming "oh but we're just here to refuel!"

Truth is, if everyone had left this to the local powers we'd've settled this within days. Instead, we've got a situation where if anyone accidentally scratches the paint on the wrong destroyer a major international crisis is born. Which, again, makes for excellent storytelling and diplomatic back-and-forth, so I don't mind OOC, but in-context, this situation would've much benefitted if it'd been dealt with by the natives.

I hate to imagine what would happen if it was a Shepistan frigate that its paint scratched.

The memories of the destroyed city of the Diocese still rankles.

Stas Bush wrote:Basically, my political decision is to leave the PRSF - but not until Beowulf promptly responds to a naval attack.

I'm working on it.