More on Terri Schiavo--UPDATE: Schiavo dead 31 Mar 05

Durandal · Post by **Durandal** » 2005-03-23 10:38pm

Boyish-Tigerlilly wrote:Anyone else find it irritating that all of the sudden the members of Congress who are pro-terry are now being referred to as Dr.? This applies to the ones that had previous medical degrees. I never heard them called that before, rather only "congressman" or "congresswoman." They are giving their "expert opinions" without ever actually examining the body.

Haven't you heard? Evolutionary biology has had massive implications in the medical science field, therefore we should ignore any non-Republican medical doctors.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2005-03-23 10:38pm

Stravo wrote:
Firefox wrote:Have any of the news services (I don't watch FOX News often) reported on the falsity of this claim? I doubt it at this point.
Fox news and the right have been getting away with this kind of half assed lies and half truths for close to 8 years now. I can't think of any time that they have truly been called on the carpet for these things. They simply move on.

Does the definition of slander under American law require that you prove intent, ie- that the defendant deliberately spread a falsehood rather than merely doing sloppy research? Because I suspect that this is the case, thus creating a loophole big enough for Fox's legal team to easily squeeze Hannity's oversized head through with ease.

Perhaps Mr. Schiavo would be better-served ignoring the slander route and suing them for negligence. The duty of care of a news organization is, after all, thorough research, avoidance of misleading broadcasts, and public retractions in the event of error. If none of these requirements have been observed in this case (or indeed, in many previous), then one might have a case for negligence and attendant damages.

Boyish-Tigerlilly · Post by **Boyish-Tigerlilly** » 2005-03-23 10:40pm

Haven't you heard? Evolutionary biology has had massive implications in the medical science field, therefore we should ignore any non-Republican medical doctors.

Imperial Overlord · Post by **Imperial Overlord** » 2005-03-23 10:41pm

Damn your in jokes which I don't know!

I demand that the only ones allowed should be the ones I understand.

I really shouldn't be surprised to the depths that they are sinking, especially after the swift boaters, but somehow I am. As long as they can profit from with this dishonest and disgraceful bullshit, they will continue to do so.

Boyish-Tigerlilly · Post by **Boyish-Tigerlilly** » 2005-03-23 10:42pm

I Just thought it was odd that I rarely saw these people being called Doctor, but now when they want their opinion, they are called doctor. *scratches head*

jegs2 · Post by **jegs2** » 2005-03-23 10:50pm

I've never before seen so many on the Left so in lock-step behind celebrating the impending death of someone like this

Now, if we can just get you to line up behind the killing of criminals on Death Row too...

Wicked Pilot · Post by **Wicked Pilot** » 2005-03-23 10:53pm

jegs2 wrote:Now, if we can just get you to line up behind the killing of criminals on Death Row too...

I'm all for it, but I have to wonder how many on death row have gotten as much legal representation as this woman.

Firefox · Post by **Firefox** » 2005-03-23 10:55pm

I've never before seen so many on the Left so in lock-step behind celebrating the impending death of someone like this

At least we're not lining up to fuck her corpse under the banner of "preserving the culture of life!"

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2005-03-23 10:57pm

jegs2 wrote:I've never before seen so many on the Left so in lock-step behind celebrating the impending death of someone like this

Now, if we can just get you to line up behind the killing of criminals on Death Row too...

Wow, I've never seen an uninformed, trolling statement like this.. In the past ten minutes.

jegs2 · Post by **jegs2** » 2005-03-23 11:03pm

SirNitram wrote:Wow, I've never seen an uninformed, trolling statement like this.. In the past ten minutes.

Happy to be of asssitance...

Durandal · Post by **Durandal** » 2005-03-23 11:13pm

Boyish-Tigerlilly wrote:I Just thought it was odd that I rarely saw these people being called Doctor, but now when they want their opinion, they are called doctor. *scratches head*

I'm waiting for the diploma mills to start issuing "honorary" doctoral degrees to Republican congressmen, so they can all be called "doctor."

Elfdart · Post by **Elfdart** » 2005-03-23 11:20pm

Darth Wong wrote:Does the definition of slander under American law require that you prove intent, ie- that the defendant deliberately spread a falsehood rather than merely doing sloppy research? Because I suspect that this is the case, thus creating a loophole big enough for Fox's legal team to easily squeeze Hannity's oversized head through with ease.

Perhaps Mr. Schiavo would be better-served ignoring the slander route and suing them for negligence. The duty of care of a news organization is, after all, thorough research, avoidance of misleading broadcasts, and public retractions in the event of error. If none of these requirements have been observed in this case (or indeed, in many previous), then one might have a case for negligence and attendant damages.

Not a chance. Schiavo is now a public figure, and for a public figure to win a libel or slander suit, he has to prove malice or reckless disregard. Both of which are damn near impossible to prove. There was a case on 60 Minutes of a Pakistani-American photographer who took Robert Kennedy's photo just a few minutes before he was assassinated. A tabloid and a crank author accused him of killing Kennedy with a James Bond-style camera gun. It took him years just to get to court. He won, got jack shit for his trouble -and he wasn't even a public figure! Libel and slander law in the US are a joke. You might as well ask for help from a fairy godmother.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2005-03-23 11:22pm

jegs2 wrote:I've never before seen so many on the Left so in lock-step behind celebrating the impending death of someone like this

She died 15 years ago. Don't be a moron. What's left is nothing more than an empty shell. The person inside is long gone, and anyone who isn't blinded by ideology or sheer stupidity knows that.

Elfdart · Post by **Elfdart** » 2005-03-23 11:26pm

Darth Wong wrote:The person inside is long gone, and anyone who isn't blinded by ideology or sheer stupidity knows that.

Guess that rules jegs2 out...

Durandal · Post by **Durandal** » 2005-03-23 11:27pm

Here's an interesting hypothetical ... what would the neo-cons have done if Terry was a Christian Scientist?

jegs2 · Post by **jegs2** » 2005-03-23 11:27pm

Wish it were as black and white as all that, but then we seem to see differing opinions on both sides. One side is working hard to see her dead, while the other side is working hard to keep her alive.

Firefox · Post by **Firefox** » 2005-03-23 11:28pm

Could've depended on the parents, if they were of the same religion. If so, she may have been let go long ago.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2005-03-23 11:29pm

jegs2 wrote:Wish it were as black and white as all that, but then we seem to see differing opinions on both sides. One side is working hard to see her dead, while the other side is working hard to keep her alive.

Nice Golden Mean fallacy. Does that come with your Mindless Ideologue Happy Meal, or did you order it as an extra side dish?

Firefox · Post by **Firefox** » 2005-03-23 11:30pm

jegs2 wrote:One side is working hard to see her dead, while the other side is working hard to keep her alive.

She's been "dead" for 15 years. What do you think should be done with her animate corpse?

jegs2 · Post by **jegs2** » 2005-03-23 11:30pm

Darth Wong wrote:Nice Golden Mean fallacy. Does that come with your Mindless Ideologue Happy Meal, or did you order it as an extra side dish?

I take it you disagree...

Durandal · Post by **Durandal** » 2005-03-23 11:31pm

jegs2 wrote:
Darth Wong wrote:Nice Golden Mean fallacy. Does that come with your Mindless Ideologue Happy Meal, or did you order it as an extra side dish?
I take it you disagree...

I'm smelling a "both our opinions are equally valid" cowardly retreat in the near future ...

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2005-03-23 11:33pm

jegs2 wrote:
Darth Wong wrote:Nice Golden Mean fallacy. Does that come with your Mindless Ideologue Happy Meal, or did you order it as an extra side dish?
I take it you disagree...

Do I disagree with people who completely disregard all of medical science in favour of mindless ideology? Yes. Do I disagree with people whose idea of an evenly balanced set of medical opinions is the entire medical profession against two quacks, one of whom was disciplined years ago for misbehaviour and the other who isn't even a neurologist? Yes.

jegs2 · Post by **jegs2** » 2005-03-23 11:33pm

Durandal wrote:I'm smelling a "both our opinions are equally valid" cowardly retreat in the near future ...

...and I smell something else more foul, but then it hardly matters, since most here seem convinced that the right decision has been made by the courts.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2005-03-23 11:34pm

jegs2 wrote:
Durandal wrote:I'm smelling a "both our opinions are equally valid" cowardly retreat in the near future ...
...and I smell something else more foul, but then it hardly matters, since most here seem convinced that the right decision has been made by the courts.

For once in your life, back up your claims, jegs. I respect you as a human being for the discipline you need in order to do your job, but quite frankly, as a debater you suck shit.

jegs2 · Post by **jegs2** » 2005-03-23 11:39pm

Darth Wong wrote:For once in your life, back up your claims, jegs. I respect you as a human being for the discipline you need in order to do your job, but quite frankly, as a debater you suck shit.

I'm going off what I've seen in the news. Some claim that Terri reacts in a manner that fails to support the assertion she is braindead. We have no document of her wanting to die if left in a condition like this, and we have no claim other than that of a husband who has been in a common-law marriage for a number of years. What is to lose by giving her parents sole custody of Terri and granting her a divorce so Michael can move on?