You vs. the Alpha Quadrant

[MagicHateBall]

If you were dropping people on an inhabited world to gather information, would you put them in full battle armor or military uniform?

If not, what makes you think that an Imperial commander would?

[John Clark]

Battle-armor or not, the nature of the information they're trying to acquire would make the intended use of that information pretty obvious.

Let's see, they want, hmm... information on hte major military targets in the Federation
--How to get there
--Who to get supplies from
--What else?

The information they're asking for would give their purpose away. Not to mention, most people are quick enough to spot a soldier when they see one.

Next problem is the amount of time it would take for the Imperials to learn the locals' language in the first place. And it's not like they can land these guys in a Tyderium shuttle all painted up like the "Magic Bus". Imperial ships aren't designed to decieve anyone as to their purpose.

[Cpt_Frank]

Do you really have to come up with this annoying intelligence-gathering thing again? If nobody gives them the maps, they take them. Or they simply make their own, no big thing regarding their sensor range. They will listen to the subspace comm traffic, and sooner or later they'll find out about the feds and the others.

And you really seem to think the inhabitants have the intention to hide information from the foes of the feds. They will request payment of some kind, but that is no problem.

And S8472 is gone.
And their bioships can be detected because they generate heat. And if they generate heat, they can be detected. And if they are detected popping up over a planet, they will be destroyed. It's that simple.

Oh, and I forgot to mention that they won't have to learn the local's languages themselves. What do you think is the purpose of protocol droids?

[IDMR]

Hmm. Guys in white PVC suits? Other guys with snotty British accents and snotty Imperial attitudes? I don't know, you think the locals would take them for Girl Scouts?

Alas, the British accent is longer as snotty as it used to be. And really, there are always people willing to sell information, they don't have to like the imperials. Not to mention the numerous literature and information systems which would be equally able to furnish the information.

[Grand Admiral Thrawn]

Let me clarify:



The Imperials find a ship on their side of the wormhole. They capture it, and learn about the Federation. Someone gets away in a fed shuttle, and warns the federation.

[Shadow]

And S8472 is gone.
And their bioships can be detected because they generate heat. And if they generate heat, they can be detected. And if they are detected popping up over a planet, they will be destroyed. It's that simple.

They can't respond fast enough. Besides in the few seconds it takes, I think everyone would be occupied with the black hole that is now above their planet.

Oh, and I forgot to mention that they won't have to learn the local's languages themselves. What do you think is the purpose of protocol droids?

S8472 can't speak.

[Grand Admiral Thrawn]

What are you talking about? They weren't in Unimatrix Zero! And yes they did say they left! After Voyager told them they weren't going to invade!




And of course, should 8472 like the Empire? Killing the Borg and all.

1. They did not appear, but were mentioned twice.

Axum: It turns out I'm on a scout ship patrolling the border of fluidic space--on the other side of the galaxy.

Axum: There are things I can do where I am. I'll try to contact species 8472--see if I can persuade them to join the fight.
2. Find a quote that says they left. There are none, of course.
3. Already answered.

That means the Borg are still keeping tabs of them. But they stay in Fluidic Space!

I'll get a quote, but it was the ending of a episdoe!

[Shadow]

That means the Borg are still keeping tabs of them. But they stay in Fluidic Space!

I'll get a quote, but it was the ending of a episdoe!

The ending of "In the Flesh" was left open-ended, and was never mentioned again.

[Cpt_Frank]

err... I wasn't referring to the protocol droids as means of negotations.
Negotiations aren't necessary.
As soon as Bioships appear over an Imperial planet, the Imp planetary defenses or the orbiting ships will see them. They first have to form up to this ring before they can fire at the planet. That will take more than several seconds, enough time for the Imperials to blast at least attackers to smithereens, or at least the central ship. The others will now either flee or be destroyed.
The Empire needs only to repel a single attack from S8472 to get rid of them forever.

[Grand Admiral Thrawn]

Why will 8472 attack again?

[Shadow]

err... I wasn't referring to the protocol droids as means of negotations.
Negotiations aren't necessary.
As soon as Bioships appear over an Imperial planet, the Imp planetary defenses or the orbiting ships will see them. They first have to form up to this ring before they can fire at the planet. That will take more than several seconds, enough time for the Imperials to blast at least attackers to smithereens, or at least the central ship. The others will now either flee or be destroyed.
The Empire needs only to repel a single attack from S8472 to get rid of them forever.

They will probably be more concerned at the black hole. They don't have enough time to target their weapons anyway. They won't be sure S8472 is a threat, either.

Why will 8472 attack again?

What does this mean?

[Cpt_Frank]

They wont, Grand Admiral.
But to get him quiet we will have to prove him that the Empire can destroy them.

[Grand Admiral Thrawn]

What does this mean?

It means why will Species 8472 attack the Empire, especially since the Imperials...


A. Can't go into Fluidic Space. Both the Borg and the Federation could and did, so they were a threat.
B. Will be killing the Borg.

[Shadow]

It means why will Species 8472 attack the Empire, especially since the Imperials...


A. Can't go into Fluidic Space. Both the Borg and the Federation could and did, so they were a threat.
B. Will be killing the Borg.

Why does it say "again?" S8472 hasn't ever attacked the Empire before. S8472 hates humans, so they will probably consider a galactic empire of violent humans a threat.

[Cpt_Frank]

They will probably be more concerned at the black hole. They don't have enough time to target their weapons anyway. They won't be sure S8472 is a threat, either.

Why will 8472 attack again?

What does this mean?

What do you mean by they won't be sure they are a threat?
If a group of totally alien ships appears over an imperial planet, additionally in a time where the Empire is at war, they will doubtless be attacked and destroyed immediately. Without the Imps asking them if they would please state their purpose or something like that.
And they won't be able to set their bioship cluster up before the Empire can't at least deal heavy damage to one of them.
Btw, they really really really have absolutely no reason to attack the Imps.
If they really hated humans that much, they would have eradicated the Feds long ago.[/i]

[Grand Admiral Thrawn]

Why does it say "again?" S8472 hasn't ever attacked the Empire before. S8472 hates humans, so they will probably consider a galactic empire of violent humans a threat.

Again means tell us the reason again.



Hates humans? A threat? hardly. They don't hate humans. And they can't be a threat, they can't even reach Fluidic space!

[Shadow]

Hates humans? A threat? hardly. They don't hate humans. And they can't be a threat, they can't even reach Fluidic space!

It's very clear that most S8472 hates humans. One S8472 commited suicide after being beamed over to Voyager at the beginning of "In the Flesh." They would be concerned that when they take over the Federation, they could learn about S8472. When they attack they can destroy Coruscant, Kuat, Fondor, and Corida. Th Emperor would die of course. this would cause the Empire to collapse.

What do you mean by they won't be sure they are a threat?
If a group of totally alien ships appears over an imperial planet, additionally in a time where the Empire is at war, they will doubtless be attacked and destroyed immediately. Without the Imps asking them if they would please state their purpose or something like that.
And they won't be able to set their bioship cluster up before the Empire can't at least deal heavy damage to one of them.
Btw, they really really really have absolutely no reason to attack the Imps.
If they really hated humans that much, they would have eradicated the Feds long ago.

I didn't see this. What about the black hole above their planet? You would think they would be more worried about that than 9 corvette-size ships.

[Zoink]

Didn't species 8472 only hate humans because they considered them a threat. (Ie. Because doofus Janeway teamed up with the borg and developed a weapon to destroy them)

What of the episode where species 8472 are preparing to attack earth, and after Janeway explains the situation, species 8472 decide not to attack earth, AND they leave on friendly terms. (Ie. If doofus Janeway hadn't teamed up with the borg, they wouldn't have planned to attack earth.)

Considering that Janeway gave them the plans to the nanite weapon, wouldn't NOW be the perfect time to attack the federation.... yet they didn't.

[Mr Bean]

Oh what the hell I can't resist part three of this boards motto

They would be concerned that when they take over the Federation, they could learn about S8472. When they attack they can destroy Coruscant, Kuat, Fondor, and Corida. Th Emperor would die of course. this would cause the Empire to collapse.

Hmmm...
Emperor died already and...
Empire did not completly collapse

Second Kuat, Fonder and Corrila are ORBITAL shipyards and its not ONE single facilitiy, According to lit on the matter Kuat is notirously trigger happy and do you acutal think they could pop up and have time to shoot?

You still have not answearing this question along with how they could find out where everything to begin with
The Navgational Data is stored in computers NOT in peoples heads(I can see you never took Astroymeny and assume that people would remeber the three and a half pages of calculations you would need to figure out where say a astroid would be in two months when you already know it prescent location

And second how would they have time to set up
If unidentified bio-logical ships showed up I'd shoot first and ask questions later
As a matter of fact thats standered rules within the Empire
NO prime directive anywhere to be found here in the Empire

So lets get you to acutal answear some questions instead of BS about the Mighty- Morphing bio Ships

1. HOW could they Find out where things are

2. HOW could they even get set up to fire the big planet destroying stuff when Imperials are notrusly Trigger happy

3. EVEN IF THEY WHERN'T the ships have a warm up time before they can attack and don't you think the Empire(Which holds a huge advantage in sensor technology SEE them powering up and say. Hmm that looks like he's got a weapons system, lets stop him

[Shadow]

1. HOW could they Find out where things are

2. HOW could they even get set up to fire the big planet destroying stuff when Imperials are notrusly Trigger happy

3. EVEN IF THEY WHERN'T the ships have a warm up time before they can attack and don't you think the Empire(Which holds a huge advantage in sensor technology SEE them powering up and say. Hmm that looks like he's got a weapons system, lets stop him

1. They would get a map on a backwater planet.
2. They have to actually power up and aim their weapons. S8472 ships are extremely small compared to any normal SW ship, which means they might not consider them a threat. They can't be scanned externally, so the only way to find out if it is even a ship is to go inside. They would be distracted by the black hole. The black hole might disrupt turbolaser bolts. It wouldn't be easy to scan something next to a black hole. It only takes a few seconds.
3. Maybe they do, but it is irrelevant. What warm up time?

[Grand Admiral Thrawn]

It's very clear that most S8472 hates humans. One S8472 commited suicide after being beamed over to Voyager at the beginning of "In the Flesh." They would be concerned that when they take over the Federation, they could learn about S8472.

That's your proof they hate humans? One killed himself to avoid capture and make sure they don't learn about them? LOL!

When they attack they can destroy Coruscant, Kuat, Fondor, and Corida. Th Emperor would die of course. this would cause the Empire to collapse.

1. READ THE FUCKING FIRST POST! A GROUP OF SHIPS GET STUCK IN THE ST GALAXY! THE WORMHOLE TO THE SW CLOSED!!!!!!!!!

And you've still ignored they're going to fight the Borg. 8472 hate the Borg.

[Shadow]

That's your proof they hate humans? One killed himself to avoid capture and make sure they don't learn about them? LOL!

He was extremely paranoid and afraid of them. He din't seem to worried about them getting information.

"No! Don't touch me. Disease! Humans!"-Ensign Gentry(S8472)

This was just before he releases a cellular toxin.

1. READ THE FUCKING FIRST POST! A GROUP OF SHIPS GET STUCK IN THE ST GALAXY! THE WORMHOLE TO THE SW CLOSED!!!!!!!!!

And you've still ignored they're going to fight the Borg. 8472 hate the Borg.

They don't need a wormhole to get to the SW galaxy. S8472 could destroy the Borg, but they don't. Axum said he was going to ask S8472 for help against the Borg, and yet the Borg weren't troubled in "Endgame." S8472 didn't care about him, so I doubt they care if the Empire destroyed the Borg.

[Mr Bean]

Alright then

1. How does biological ships who use Telepthy get a map from a backwater world.....
Does not matter if you go to Courscant or to Yavin the MAPS ARE ON COMPUTERS!
And last time any idiot checked telepthy does not work on computers

S8472 ships are extremely small compared to any normal SW ship, which means they might not consider them a threat. They can't be scanned externally, so the only way to find out if it is even a ship is to go inside. They would be distracted by the black hole. The black hole might disrupt turbolaser bolts. It wouldn't be easy to scan something next to a black hole. It only takes a few seconds

You mean to tell me a black hole pops up near you and out of it comes ships and you would not attack?
Furthmore They are not small they X-wings, Consdering what Proton Torpodes are cabable of they regard ANYTHING as a threat

And this part

They would be distracted by the black hole

Speculation

It wouldn't be easy to scan something next to a black hole. It only takes a few seconds

Speculation you have no proof to back this up


So I see a wrong statment and three none answeas
Come on you can do better than that
(And since when do they produce blackholes, First time you mentioned that, Quantum Sigulatires is what we have be going by so far and those are NOT black holes, If they where 8472 would not be a problem the Black hole would kill them the instant they came out of *Fludic space as that black holes in THIS space and no amount of riggmralo is going to get around the fact that black holes are bloody nasty things for ships)

[Grand Admiral Thrawn]

He was extremely paranoid and afraid of them. He din't seem to worried about them getting information.

"No! Don't touch me. Disease! Humans!"-Ensign Gentry(S8472)

Duh he was afraid. They thought humans were going to invade their realm.

This was just before he releases a cellular toxin.


They don't need a wormhole to get to the SW galaxy.

Yes they do. They have no idea where it is.

S8472 could destroy the Borg, but they don't.

Not with those nanoprobes.

Axum said he was going to ask S8472 for help against the Borg, and yet the Borg weren't troubled in "Endgame." S8472 didn't care about him, so I doubt they care if the Empire destroyed the Borg.

Of course they didn't join. Nanoprobes would stop them, and then the Borg would come back.

8472 hate the borg, but with those damn nanoprobes, they dare not come back.

[Darth Yoshi]

They don't need a wormhole to get to the SW galaxy.

How do you know? There's no evidence of 8472 being able to travel to different galaxies?