StarDestroyer.Net BBS

Shinn Langley Soryu wrote:Just how easy would it be to fool an Attrition bot, anyway? If Zygmund, Andrzej, and Kazimierz took the effort to cover up the customizations they made to their outfits, could they reasonably pass as actual, factual AKOs?

Borrowing from the Evil Overlord list, each AKO uniform is custom fitted. At the same time their combat suits have a system which monitors life functions (largely to assist medical personnel) and if the wearer dies it engages an anti-theft system. If it is stolen, it sets off a radio beacon that tells surrounding Robots and Imperial Soldiers "THIS SUIT HAS BEEN STOLEN!"

So most likely no.

Zor

Zor wrote:

Shinn Langley Soryu wrote:Just how easy would it be to fool an Attrition bot, anyway? If Zygmund, Andrzej, and Kazimierz took the effort to cover up the customizations they made to their outfits, could they reasonably pass as actual, factual AKOs?

Borrowing from the Evil Overlord list, each uniform is custom fitted. At the same time their is a system which monitors life functions (largely to assist medical personnel) and if the wearer dies it engages an anti-theft system. If it is stolen, it sets off a radio beacon that tells surrounding Robots and Imperial Soldiers "THIS SUIT HAS BEEN STOLEN!"

So most likely no.

Explains why the suits are a bit ill-fitting on our Polish boys, at any rate. They had to have found a way to disable the anti-theft system and radio beacon, though. Given that they aren't constantly writhing on the ground in electroshock-induced convulsions (assuming that there's an active component to the anti-theft system, if trends in SDNW4 are anything to go by), and given that they've been wearing the suits for a relatively long time without getting everyone else around them killed by way of precisely targeted AKO raids on whatever position they're at...

So the AKOs have some form of active transmission IFF system? Cause otherwise people can get around the anti theft system by bludgeoning the transmitter circuit into submission with a rock and then placing some plastic sheeting over the dent so it looks okay. ...also makes me wonder about how much it must suck to have radio transmissions constantly or intermittently coming off you and giving away your location if that is the case.

And if they do have some kind of active transmission iff and attrition bots are built on a budget why would they bother with much in the way of visual recognition software to recognize the uniform if they just need to ping the suit transponder to know not to perforate it?

Also i can visualize their source code now:
Is it man shaped? check transponder, if no response perforate target.
Is it man shaped and holding a weapon? check transponder, if no response demand target lay down weapons in synthesized voice then perforate target.
Is it an occupied or moving vehicle? check transponder, if no response demand occupants get out in synthesized voice then perforate target and subsidiary targets.

And if that's the case, if you could somehow build a device that disabled the IFF transmitters at range, wouldn't the attrition bots end up engaging the AKO's thinking they're hostile?

Well that's one good arguement for giving them enough visual recognition algorithms to discern what friendlies look like as a back up in case the IFF transponders fail.

It could be worked into a story too, rebels get a minor victory or two exploiting the current flaw in the design, causing the attrition bots to get a redesign to iron it out, some potential there I think.

Darkevilme wrote:So the AKOs have some form of active transmission IFF system? Cause otherwise people can get around the anti theft system by bludgeoning the transmitter circuit into submission with a rock and then placing some plastic sheeting over the dent so it looks okay. ...also makes me wonder about how much it must suck to have radio transmissions constantly or intermittently coming off you and giving away your location if that is the case.

And if they do have some kind of active transmission iff and attrition bots are built on a budget why would they bother with much in the way of visual recognition software to recognize the uniform if they just need to ping the suit transponder to know not to perforate it?

They can facially recognize people and recognize uniforms. The anti-theft transmitter kicks in once someone steals the uniform, they don't constantly really on active transmission IFF.

Zor

Zor wrote:

Shinn Langley Soryu wrote:I'm guessing that at 300,000 bots per point spent and at a 0.8x modifier for equipment, the Attrition series emphasizes force of numbers and volume of fire more than individual unit survivability or accuracy of fire. Still looks like our Polish friends will have to settle for kneecapping them as their best bet.

They are, as the name indicates, designed to be fairly disposable and to put as many boots (or in this case, robotic feet) on the ground as possible. As far as their substandard processing goes, its not that they are bad shots so much they lack in the line of strategic thinking and as such generally work in concert with AKOs and Expeditionary Corps personnel unless ordered to do something very simple like guard a location.

Also, don't carry a gun around them unless you are either a Imperial soldier, allied soldier or member of local law enforcement.

Zor

Also, Lord help you if your IFF transponder is broken when you get near them if you are an imperial soldier, allied soldier, or member of local law enforcement. That thing's crotch cannon looks truly menacing. Pity it's only a 0.8 equipment modifier.

Zor wrote:

Shinn Langley Soryu wrote:Just how easy would it be to fool an Attrition bot, anyway? If Zygmund, Andrzej, and Kazimierz took the effort to cover up the customizations they made to their outfits, could they reasonably pass as actual, factual AKOs?

Borrowing from the Evil Overlord list, each AKO uniform is custom fitted. At the same time their combat suits have a system which monitors life functions (largely to assist medical personnel) and if the wearer dies it engages an anti-theft system. If it is stolen, it sets off a radio beacon that tells surrounding Robots and Imperial Soldiers "THIS SUIT HAS BEEN STOLEN!"

So most likely no.

Zor

Hm. I don't envy those illustrious but overworked Pezookian cryptographers and tailors!

Zor wrote:They can facially recognize people and recognize uniforms. The anti-theft transmitter kicks in once someone steals the uniform, they don't constantly really on active transmission IFF.

Zor

Ah. So having your transponder malfunction is only a problem in the dark.

The minionbots can see in the dark, right?

Part of me can't help but wonder if this isn't the real goal of the resistance movement - force the Imperium to spend huge sums to come up with and outfit every soldier with increasingly elaborate anti-infiltration devices that hamper their effectiveness as actual soldiers until they simply can't justify it anymore.

Esquire wrote:Part of me can't help but wonder if this isn't the real goal of the resistance movement - force the Imperium to spend huge sums to come up with and outfit every soldier with increasingly elaborate anti-infiltration devices that hamper their effectiveness as actual soldiers until they simply can't justify it anymore.

Also keep in mind that Lada is just a single planet in one of the Imperium's three "Special Reconstructional Zones," and it's still fifteen years before official game start. You can bet that there are going to be insurgencies in the Speranza and Joeson Sectors as well, to say nothing of the other planets in the Lada Sector. Things may calm down slightly by 3300, but they still won't be peaceful places to live.

Shinn Langley Soryu wrote:Also keep in mind that Lada is just a single planet in one of the Imperium's three "Special Reconstructional Zones," and it's still fifteen years before official game start. You can bet that there are going to be insurgencies in the Speranza and Joeson Sectors as well, to say nothing of the other planets in the Lada Sector. Things may calm down slightly by 3300, but they still won't be peaceful places to live.

One thing that I have planned as a plot element is the completion of Speranza's integration. It was the first conquered, much of the Rebel elements that were there have died off and a fair number of it's people are now Imperial Citizens. A couple of areas are now full fledged Provinces already. Any rebels left in Speranza are comparatively few in number and generally disliked at this point.

Zor

If so, I suspect it's only because your guys systematically gender-flipped and/or otherwise metamorphosized entire planetary populations... I mean sure, you can make people think whatever you want if you kill them and use the raw materials to make entirely new people from scratch. That doesn't mean there's no problem.

Hmm. Shades of Shroomalia. Shinn, you know anything about that?

Please do tell - I can't restrain my morbid curiosity.

Oh, just an STGOD on another forum- nothing to do with SDNW; suffice to say that it involved guerilla warfare between two players. One of them constantly revised what his forces were capable of and kept declaring victory, while doing horrible things to the Shroomalian population. The other... was Shroom.

The result was predictable, memorable, and entertaining.

I have a lot of respect for (most of) the O1World players.

Well, judging by my neighbors in the Imperium, at least now I have an excuse for that warp gate I built...should get the major fleets out to London. Though the VIKINGS may actually serve a purpose as a buffer state now. Also:

OmegaChief wrote:

Skywalker_T-65 wrote: And why do I get a sudden bad feeling about being right next (in realtive terms) to Zor? And having a trade route with the Imperium...at the same time as having one with the Holy Empire? I see conflict brewing in Space Sweden. Though I was the first to bring any dissidents in with Arcadia First, who will refuse to go away. So anyone not Arcadian or VIKING might want to watch out for a maurading Victory SD clone that would love to wreck your ships.

Congradulations you now get to play a political juggling act, trying not to piss off each of your neighbours too much, welcome to being a non-isolationist neutral nation!

In all seriousness it's the competing interst 'Whatever I do will make someone' mad at me is what makes things more fun!

Trust me...I know. Might want to brush up my diplomatic skills.

'Don't fight us, we just want to make money! We won't help either side in this...dispute...right?' (Arcadian)

'Of course we won't...we don't need the war that would result, not with the VIKINGS to deal with.' (Furling)

One last thing...the only nations I can think of that might want to work on the diplomacy front (As in making up backstory) are the Holy Empire, the Bastians, and the Greys. Namely since in all those cases some fairly important stuff will have happened (the Anti-Cenintern thing for the Holy Empire, and the Furling Resurgance for the Bastians/Greys). I probably won't be on again till Tuesday (busy weekend, coupled with Graduation on Monday...), but we can still work that out before game start.

Hey Zor, what would the Unified Imperium do with any neutral foreign nationals (civilian or otherwise) who were on a conquered world at the time of invasion?

Simon_Jester wrote:Hmm. Shades of Shroomalia. Shinn, you know anything about that?

Doesn't immediately ring any bells. Once you mentioned O1, though, I headed there to look it up. (Forum looks like it's in need of some new blood, but that's neither here nor there.) Shroom's handiwork is unmistakable, but I don't know the guy who was playing Athenia.

That was LoC9.

Imperial528 wrote:Hey Zor, what would the Unified Imperium do with any neutral foreign nationals (civilian or otherwise) who were on a conquered world at the time of invasion?

For Civilians, allow them to return home if they don't violently oppose invasion forces and in some case may stay if so they wish.
For Military forces, they are allowed to return home if they don't violently oppose invasion forces, but a bit more emphatic.

Zor

Out of curiosity, how does the Imperium feel about (in?)humanitarian missions?

Greys? Unified Imperial Zoreanists?

Meet politically aware von Neumann machines.

While I'm trying to get my brain in gear to carry on a prologue post (Not going to happen today, mind. 2 hours sleep is fun!), I'm wondering how Umeria views Bees. I mean, quite possibly having created them.

Umeria does not officially claim responsibility for Bees. Dr. von Murderstein is a private citizen, in no way a representative (sample or otherwise) of the Technocracy, and his motions outside the Technocracy's borders are not monitored. Rumors that he has extended his life through unnatural means, or that he has created an entire empire of goddamn bees, are so far as the Technocracy knows, unconfirmed.

That said, Umerians do have a certain "oooh, coooool" reaction over the Bees that arguably indicates that in their hearts, they recognize the Bees as a product of someone's mad science. So everyone suspects them anyway no matter what they do or do not say.

Me, I bet there's at least one government in exile that would dearly love to know who was responsible for the creation of the Bees, so they know who to point the vindictive terror campaign at. Although pointing terrorism at Dr. Ulrich von Murderstein is liable to backfire horribly; just ask the Shepistanis what happened to the Bragulan Brainpecker back in the last game.

Speaking of Science! well, specifically genetic engineering, I was doing some more work on various peices of fiction (Yes more prologue posts are coming, I'm just a bit of a slow writer) when I realised the Authority would be pretty damn good with genetic manipulation.

Obviously not as good as the Greys (Who have a several thousand year head start on them) but still pretty damn good! This opens up whole new trading opertunities!

Also hilarious ideas for Capellan style advertising which may or may not show up on the thread at some point.

There is a subtle distinction between even the most refined of normal genetic engineering and true mad science. Admittedly, it's mostly attitude, but the devil is in the details...