StarDestroyer.Net BBS

Posted: **2009-10-28 05:06pm**

An 'inherited' scout - historically, these two ships (Bixio and Marsalla) were retired at the end of the 1920s, so they should still be active - probably as harbour watch ships in the Colonies.

based on the Italian Navies website Raesene wrote:Nino Bixio, Tuscan Kingdom esploratori (scout) laid down 1911

Displacement:
3.475 t light; 3.587 t standard; 3.749 t normal; 3.879 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(463,71 ft / 459,32 ft) x 42,65 ft x (14,44 / 14,79 ft)
(141,34 m / 140,00 m) x 13,00 m x (4,40 / 4,51 m)

Armament:
6 - 4,72" / 120 mm 50,0 cal guns - 55,82lbs / 25,32kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1911 Model
2 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
4 x Single mounts on sides amidships
6 - 2,99" / 76,0 mm 50,0 cal guns - 14,18lbs / 6,43kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1911 Model
6 x Single mounts on sides amidships
Weight of broadside 420 lbs / 191 kg
2 - 17,7" / 450 mm, 26,25 ft / 8,00 m torpedoes - 1,189 t each, 2,378 t total
In 2 sets of deck mounted carriage/fixed tubes

Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 1,18" / 30 mm - -

- Protected deck - single deck: 1,57" / 40 mm For and Aft decks

Machinery:
Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Direct drive, 3 shafts, 23.379 shp / 17.441 Kw = 26,50 kts
Range 1.400nm at 13,00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 292 tons (80% coal)

Complement:
239 - 311

Cost:
£0,287 million / $1,150 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 75 tons, 2,0%
- Guns: 73 tons, 1,9%
- Torpedoes: 2 tons, 0,1%
Armour: 320 tons, 8,5%
- Armament: 18 tons, 0,5%
- Armour Deck: 302 tons, 8,1%
Machinery: 1.023 tons, 27,3%
Hull, fittings & equipment: 2.057 tons, 54,9%
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 274 tons, 7,3%
Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0,0%

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
5.041 lbs / 2.287 Kg = 95,6 x 4,7 " / 120 mm shells or 1,1 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,20
Metacentric height 1,9 ft / 0,6 m
Roll period: 12,9 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 65 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,14
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,29

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,464 / 0,468
Length to Beam Ratio: 10,77 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 21,43 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 50 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 15,00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20,00%, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m
- Forward deck: 30,00%, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m
- Aft deck: 35,00%, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m
- Quarter deck: 15,00%, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m
- Average freeboard: 14,27 ft / 4,35 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 95,1%
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 139,0%
Waterplane Area: 12.643 Square feet or 1.175 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 145%
Structure weight / hull surface area: 102 lbs/sq ft or 498 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 1,58
- Longitudinal: 1,87
- Overall: 1,60
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

I'll use this ship class as the base for my large destroyer/small cruiser development.

Posted: **2009-10-28 05:23pm**

Anyway, to counter Skimmer's ship:

Friedrich class, Germany Battleship laid down 1925

Displacement:
57.280 t light; 60.088 t standard; 61.566 t normal; 62.749 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(915,12 ft / 869,42 ft) x 127,95 ft x (39,37 / 39,93 ft)
(278,93 m / 265,00 m) x 39,00 m x (12,00 / 12,17 m)

Armament:
6 - 21,00" / 533 mm 45,0 cal guns - 4.669,98lbs / 2.118,27kg shells, 90 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1925 Model
3 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
16 - 6,00" / 152 mm 45,0 cal guns - 108,92lbs / 49,41kg shells, 150 per gun
Quick firing guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1925 Model
8 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
8 - 3,94" / 100,0 mm 45,0 cal guns - 30,77lbs / 13,96kg shells, 150 per gun
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts, 1925 Model
8 x Single mounts on sides amidships
24 - 1,57" / 40,0 mm 45,0 cal guns - 1,97lbs / 0,89kg shells, 300 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1925 Model
24 x Single mounts on sides amidships
24 - 0,79" / 20,0 mm 45,0 cal guns - 0,25lbs / 0,11kg shells, 500 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1925 Model
6 x Quad mounts on sides, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 30.062 lbs / 13.636 kg

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 18,0" / 457 mm 600,00 ft / 182,88 m 20,00 ft / 6,10 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 106% of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead:
4,00" / 102 mm 600,00 ft / 182,88 m 34,33 ft / 10,46 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 20,0" / 508 mm 14,0" / 356 mm 17,0" / 432 mm
2nd: 2,00" / 51 mm 1,00" / 25 mm 1,00" / 25 mm
3rd: 1,00" / 25 mm - -
4th: 1,00" / 25 mm - -
5th: 1,00" / 25 mm - -

- Armoured deck - single deck: 9,00" / 229 mm For and Aft decks
Forecastle: 2,00" / 51 mm Quarter deck: 2,00" / 51 mm

- Conning towers: Forward 8,00" / 203 mm, Aft 0,00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 41.108 shp / 30.667 Kw = 20,00 kts
Range 5.000nm at 12,00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 2.662 tons

Complement:
1.953 - 2.540

Cost:
£16,304 million / $65,214 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 4.483 tons, 7,3%
Armour: 28.283 tons, 45,9%
- Belts: 9.103 tons, 14,8%
- Torpedo bulkhead: 3.049 tons, 5,0%
- Armament: 4.880 tons, 7,9%
- Armour Deck: 10.983 tons, 17,8%
- Conning Tower: 269 tons, 0,4%
Machinery: 1.335 tons, 2,2%
Hull, fittings & equipment: 23.104 tons, 37,5%
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 4.286 tons, 7,0%
Miscellaneous weights: 75 tons, 0,1%
- Above deck: 75 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
128.135 lbs / 58.121 Kg = 27,7 x 21,0 " / 533 mm shells or 30,1 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,24
Metacentric height 10,8 ft / 3,3 m
Roll period: 16,4 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,50
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,52

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a round stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,492 / 0,494
Length to Beam Ratio: 6,79 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 29,49 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 28 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 46
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 40,00 degrees
Stern overhang: 19,69 ft / 6,00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 16,00%, 31,00 ft / 9,45 m, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m
- Forward deck: 34,00%, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m, 24,44 ft / 7,45 m
- Aft deck: 37,00%, 24,44 ft / 7,45 m, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m
- Quarter deck: 13,00%, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m, 21,16 ft / 6,45 m
- Average freeboard: 23,89 ft / 7,28 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 57,5%
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 170,1%
Waterplane Area: 73.585 Square feet or 6.836 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 107%
Structure weight / hull surface area: 238 lbs/sq ft or 1.164 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0,96
- Longitudinal: 1,54
- Overall: 1,00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

75t for three aircraft carried

- better seaboat
- better gun platform
- heavier armor belt
- heavier guns

Admitedly, it has 5 inch thinner turret face armor and 4 inch thinner barbette armore, but the above-mentioned qualities IMO can deal with that quite excellently.

Posted: **2009-10-28 05:26pm**

2.1 because that version actually works end to end. I don’t like the 3.0 beta because too many features do not work and add no weights. When you consider the differing design standards such a marginal ‘failure’ is irrelevant. I could just make the deck heights 1in lower to reflect my shorter Asian crew (Japan actually did this to fix certain heavy cruisers) and use more welding, 1925 is almost precisely when this started happening. The most likely reason it doesn’t work in 3.0 is because of the revised gun weight model.

Posted: **2009-10-28 05:28pm**

Any opinions on my design?

Posted: **2009-10-28 05:51pm**

Thanas wrote:Any opinions on my design?

Or mine for that matter.

Posted: **2009-10-28 05:56pm**

Since it draws 40 feet of water it can enter maybe three ports and zero dry docks on earth in 1925, somehow I am not very concerned about it. Germany has really shallow ports too. That narrower deeper hull taking much less deck armor is why you are able to accommodate more weight of armament, but it is a completely crippling limitation. I may revise my ship to draw 30 feet of water though, I just threw it together over a beer last night and I don’t think I’m gaining anything with my artificially low limitation. This is the trick of it, you can widen a dry dock for less then building a new one, but if you want it deeper you are stuck building a whole new structure. Since dry dock prices can be on par with that of the battleship in the first place this isn’t a minor thing.

My ship having major limitations on sea keeping, speed and range don’t matter however because it will never leave the Gulf of Siam. Your ship would meanwhile suffer a huge disadvantage traveling around the world to make an attack into my coastal defence system because of those limitations. The much lesser beam also means it cannot accommodate an absurdly wide TDS, its about on par with a Montana instead. This is not good since you'll face mines and torpedoes long before you see a battleship to shoot at. If you don't travel around the world, then Siam could not care less what you build. This was the whole logic of such a specialist design.

Posted: **2009-10-28 06:19pm**

Updated ships.

SpringSharp v2.1 wrote:Vendetta, Columbian assault frigate laid down 1920

Displacement:
7 351 t light; 8 169 t standard; 8 500 t normal; 8 765 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
333.42 ft / 328.08 ft x 65.62 ft x 16.40 ft (normal load)
101.63 m / 100.00 m x 20.00 m x 5.00 m

Armament:
2 - 18.00" / 457 mm guns (1x2 guns), 2 916.01lbs / 1 322.68kg shells, 1920 Model
Breech loading guns in a turret (on a barbette)
on centreline forward
Weight of broadside 5 832 lbs / 2 645 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 200

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 3.94" / 100 mm 196.85 ft / 60.00 m 9.71 ft / 2.96 m
Ends: 1.97" / 50 mm 131.20 ft / 39.99 m 9.71 ft / 2.96 m
Upper: 1.97" / 50 mm 196.85 ft / 60.00 m 8.01 ft / 2.44 m
Main Belt covers 92 % of normal length
Main belt does not fully cover magazines and engineering spaces

- Torpedo Bulkhead:
1.97" / 50 mm 196.85 ft / 60.00 m 16.27 ft / 4.96 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 3.94" / 100 mm - 3.94" / 100 mm

- Armour deck: 3.94" / 100 mm, Conning tower: 1.97" / 50 mm

Machinery:
Diesel Internal combustion generators plus batteries,
Electric motors, 1 shaft, 5 223 shp / 3 896 Kw = 15.00 kts
Range 6 000nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 596 tons

Complement:
442 - 575

Cost:
£2.116 million / $8.464 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 729 tons, 8.6 %
Armour: 2 516 tons, 29.6 %
- Belts: 592 tons, 7.0 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 233 tons, 2.7 %
- Armament: 188 tons, 2.2 %
- Armour Deck: 1 485 tons, 17.5 %
- Conning Tower: 18 tons, 0.2 %
Machinery: 183 tons, 2.1 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 3 923 tons, 46.1 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1 149 tons, 13.5 %
Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0.0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
11 800 lbs / 5 352 Kg = 4.0 x 18.0 " / 457 mm shells or 2.5 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.26
Metacentric height 4.0 ft / 1.2 m
Roll period: 13.7 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.74
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.42

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.842
Length to Beam Ratio: 5.00 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 21.20 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 47 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 15.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 19.91 ft / 6.07 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 12.66 ft / 3.86 m
- Mid (50 %): 12.66 ft / 3.86 m
- Quarterdeck (20 %): 12.66 ft / 3.86 m
- Stern: 12.66 ft / 3.86 m
- Average freeboard: 13.24 ft / 4.04 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 108.6 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 111.3 %
Waterplane Area: 20 394 Square feet or 1 895 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 98 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 156 lbs/sq ft or 761 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 1.00
- Longitudinal: 2.63
- Overall: 1.11
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

SpringSharp v2.1 wrote:Valiant, Columbian monitor laid down 1920

Displacement:
5 629 t light; 6 000 t standard; 6 000 t normal; 6 000 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
399.85 ft / 393.70 ft x 55.77 ft x 16.40 ft (normal load)
121.88 m / 120.00 m x 17.00 m x 5.00 m

Armament:
4 - 9.84" / 250 mm guns (2x2 guns), 476.75lbs / 216.25kg shells, 1920 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, evenly spread, 1 raised mount
8 - 3.94" / 100 mm guns (4x2 guns), 30.51lbs / 13.84kg shells, 1920 Model
Quick firing guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on side, all amidships, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
2 - 3.15" / 80.0 mm guns in single mounts, 15.62lbs / 7.09kg shells, 1920 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread
10 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm guns (1x10 guns), 0.24lbs / 0.11kg shells, 1920 Model
Machine guns in deck mount
on side
Weight of broadside 2 185 lbs / 991 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 200

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 3.94" / 100 mm 236.22 ft / 72.00 m 8.96 ft / 2.73 m
Ends: 1.97" / 50 mm 157.45 ft / 47.99 m 8.96 ft / 2.73 m
Upper: 1.97" / 50 mm 236.22 ft / 72.00 m 8.01 ft / 2.44 m
Main Belt covers 92 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead:
3.94" / 100 mm 236.22 ft / 72.00 m 15.35 ft / 4.68 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 5.91" / 150 mm - 5.91" / 150 mm
2nd: 3.94" / 100 mm - 3.94" / 100 mm

- Armour deck: 3.94" / 100 mm, Conning tower: 1.97" / 50 mm

Machinery:
Immobile floating battery

Complement:
340 - 443

Cost:
£1.008 million / $4.032 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 273 tons, 4.6 %
Armour: 2 842 tons, 47.4 %
- Belts: 633 tons, 10.5 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 528 tons, 8.8 %
- Armament: 467 tons, 7.8 %
- Armour Deck: 1 199 tons, 20.0 %
- Conning Tower: 14 tons, 0.2 %
Machinery: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 2 514 tons, 41.9 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 371 tons, 6.2 %
Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0.0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
17 568 lbs / 7 969 Kg = 36.9 x 9.8 " / 250 mm shells or 5.7 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.04
Metacentric height 2.2 ft / 0.7 m
Roll period: 15.6 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 82 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.91
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.65

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.583
Length to Beam Ratio: 7.06 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 23.08 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 0 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 15.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 22.97 ft / 7.00 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 14.76 ft / 4.50 m
- Mid (50 %): 14.76 ft / 4.50 m
- Quarterdeck (20 %): 14.76 ft / 4.50 m
- Stern: 14.76 ft / 4.50 m
- Average freeboard: 15.42 ft / 4.70 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 58.6 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 136.2 %
Waterplane Area: 16 468 Square feet or 1 530 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 119 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 107 lbs/sq ft or 525 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.94
- Longitudinal: 1.88
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

SpringSharp v2.1 wrote:Vindicator, Columbian cruiser laid down 1920

Displacement:
11 156 t light; 12 009 t standard; 13 000 t normal; 13 792 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
506.22 ft / 492.13 ft x 65.62 ft x 19.69 ft (normal load)
154.30 m / 150.00 m x 20.00 m x 6.00 m

Armament:
6 - 11.81" / 300 mm guns (3x2 guns), 823.82lbs / 373.68kg shells, 1920 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, majority forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
8 - 3.94" / 100 mm guns (4x2 guns), 30.51lbs / 13.84kg shells, 1920 Model
Quick firing guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on side, all amidships
4 - 3.15" / 80.0 mm guns in single mounts, 15.62lbs / 7.09kg shells, 1920 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, all aft
16 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm guns (1x16 guns), 0.24lbs / 0.11kg shells, 1920 Model
Machine guns in deck mount
on side
Weight of broadside 5 253 lbs / 2 383 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 200

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 5.91" / 150 mm 319.88 ft / 97.50 m 9.71 ft / 2.96 m
Ends: 1.97" / 50 mm 172.21 ft / 52.49 m 9.71 ft / 2.96 m
Upper: 1.97" / 50 mm 319.88 ft / 97.50 m 8.01 ft / 2.44 m
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead:
4.13" / 105 mm 319.88 ft / 97.50 m 19.19 ft / 5.85 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 5.91" / 150 mm - 5.91" / 150 mm
2nd: 3.94" / 100 mm - 3.94" / 100 mm

- Armour deck: 5.12" / 130 mm, Conning tower: 1.97" / 50 mm

Machinery:
Diesel Internal combustion generators plus batteries,
Electric motors, 2 shafts, 16 844 shp / 12 566 Kw = 20.00 kts
Range 6 000nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1 783 tons

Complement:
608 - 791

Cost:
£2.422 million / $9.686 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 657 tons, 5.1 %
Armour: 5 434 tons, 41.8 %
- Belts: 1 133 tons, 8.7 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 939 tons, 7.2 %
- Armament: 742 tons, 5.7 %
- Armour Deck: 2 596 tons, 20.0 %
- Conning Tower: 23 tons, 0.2 %
Machinery: 589 tons, 4.5 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 4 477 tons, 34.4 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1 844 tons, 14.2 %
Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0.0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
23 622 lbs / 10 715 Kg = 28.7 x 11.8 " / 300 mm shells or 5.1 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.18
Metacentric height 3.6 ft / 1.1 m
Roll period: 14.5 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.83
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.55

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has raised forecastle
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.716
Length to Beam Ratio: 7.50 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 25.35 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 45 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 46
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 30.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 24.41 ft / 7.44 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 19.98 ft / 6.09 m (15.52 ft / 4.73 m aft of break)
- Mid (50 %): 15.52 ft / 4.73 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 15.52 ft / 4.73 m
- Stern: 15.52 ft / 4.73 m
- Average freeboard: 16.77 ft / 5.11 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 80.3 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 133.3 %
Waterplane Area: 27 418 Square feet or 2 547 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 110 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 120 lbs/sq ft or 586 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.93
- Longitudinal: 1.31
- Overall: 0.96
Caution: Hull subject to strain in open-sea
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

Posted: **2009-10-28 06:41pm**

Sea Skimmer wrote:Since it draws 40 feet of water it can enter maybe three ports and zero dry docks on earth in 1925, somehow I am not very concerned about it. Germany has really shallow ports too.

Argh. You are right. Redesigned it to 11 meters.

Friedrich class, Germany Battleship laid down 1925

Displacement:
57.347 t light; 60.157 t standard; 61.639 t normal; 62.825 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(898,72 ft / 853,02 ft) x 131,23 ft x (36,09 / 36,63 ft)
(273,93 m / 260,00 m) x 40,00 m x (11,00 / 11,16 m)

Armament:
6 - 21,00" / 533 mm 45,0 cal guns - 4.669,98lbs / 2.118,27kg shells, 90 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1925 Model
3 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
16 - 6,00" / 152 mm 45,0 cal guns - 108,92lbs / 49,41kg shells, 150 per gun
Quick firing guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1925 Model
8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
8 - 3,94" / 100,0 mm 45,0 cal guns - 30,77lbs / 13,96kg shells, 150 per gun
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts, 1925 Model
8 x Single mounts on sides amidships
24 - 1,57" / 40,0 mm 45,0 cal guns - 1,97lbs / 0,89kg shells, 300 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1925 Model
24 x Single mounts on sides amidships
24 - 0,79" / 20,0 mm 45,0 cal guns - 0,25lbs / 0,11kg shells, 500 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1925 Model
6 x Quad mounts on sides, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 30.062 lbs / 13.636 kg

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 18,0" / 457 mm 600,00 ft / 182,88 m 20,00 ft / 6,10 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 108% of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead:
4,00" / 102 mm 600,00 ft / 182,88 m 31,50 ft / 9,60 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 20,0" / 508 mm 14,0" / 356 mm 16,0" / 406 mm
2nd: 2,00" / 51 mm 1,00" / 25 mm 1,00" / 25 mm
3rd: 1,00" / 25 mm - -
4th: 1,00" / 25 mm - -
5th: 1,00" / 25 mm - -

- Armoured deck - single deck: 9,00" / 229 mm For and Aft decks
Forecastle: 2,00" / 51 mm Quarter deck: 2,00" / 51 mm

- Conning towers: Forward 8,00" / 203 mm, Aft 0,00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 41.810 shp / 31.190 Kw = 20,00 kts
Range 5.000nm at 12,00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 2.668 tons

Complement:
1.955 - 2.542

Cost:
£16,322 million / $65,287 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 4.583 tons, 7,4%
Armour: 28.462 tons, 46,2%
- Belts: 9.188 tons, 14,9%
- Torpedo bulkhead: 2.797 tons, 4,5%
- Armament: 4.727 tons, 7,7%
- Armour Deck: 11.481 tons, 18,6%
- Conning Tower: 269 tons, 0,4%
Machinery: 1.357 tons, 2,2%
Hull, fittings & equipment: 22.870 tons, 37,1%
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 4.291 tons, 7,0%
Miscellaneous weights: 75 tons, 0,1%
- Above deck: 75 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
133.543 lbs / 60.574 Kg = 28,8 x 21,0 " / 533 mm shells or 31,8 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,31
Metacentric height 12,1 ft / 3,7 m
Roll period: 15,8 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,44
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,50

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a round stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,534 / 0,536
Length to Beam Ratio: 6,50 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 29,21 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 30 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 47
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 40,00 degrees
Stern overhang: 19,69 ft / 6,00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 16,00%, 31,00 ft / 9,45 m, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m
- Forward deck: 34,00%, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m, 24,44 ft / 7,45 m
- Aft deck: 37,00%, 24,44 ft / 7,45 m, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m
- Quarter deck: 13,00%, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m, 21,16 ft / 6,45 m
- Average freeboard: 23,89 ft / 7,28 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 57,3%
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 177,7%
Waterplane Area: 76.965 Square feet or 7.150 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 107%
Structure weight / hull surface area: 235 lbs/sq ft or 1.148 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0,96
- Longitudinal: 1,43
- Overall: 1,00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

75t for three aircraft carried

11 meters should be handled more easily.

Posted: **2009-10-28 07:34pm**

Here is my attempt at a 20" gun armed monster.

It is an up gunned version of the super dreadnought that I was first competing with Thanas with. Also surprise they are similar again!

PSS Orgulho Invencível, Portuguese Battleship laid down 1924 (Engine 1925)

Displacement:
57,009 t light; 60,001 t standard; 61,642 t normal; 62,955 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(902.23 ft / 902.23 ft) x 118.11 ft x (36.09 / 36.70 ft)
(275.00 m / 275.00 m) x 36.00 m x (11.00 / 11.19 m)

Armament:
8 - 20.00" / 508 mm 45.0 cal guns - 4,034.10lbs / 1,829.84kg shells, 90 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1924 Model
1 x Quad mount on centreline, forward deck centre
1 x Quad mount on centreline, aft deck centre
12 - 6.00" / 152 mm 45.0 cal guns - 108.92lbs / 49.41kg shells, 140 per gun
Quick firing guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1924 Model
6 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
16 - 4.00" / 102 mm 45.0 cal guns - 32.27lbs / 14.64kg shells, 150 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1924 Model
4 x 4 row quad mounts on sides, evenly spread
48 - 0.30" / 7.7 mm 45.0 cal guns - 0.01lbs / 0.00kg shells, 3,000 per gun
Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1924 Model
12 x 4 row quad mounts on sides, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 34,097 lbs / 15,466 kg

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 18.0" / 457 mm 600.00 ft / 182.88 m 18.00 ft / 5.49 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 102 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead:
4.50" / 114 mm 650.00 ft / 198.12 m 15.00 ft / 4.57 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 19.0" / 483 mm 16.0" / 406 mm 19.0" / 483 mm
2nd: 2.00" / 51 mm 1.00" / 25 mm 1.00" / 25 mm
3rd: 1.00" / 25 mm - -

- Armoured deck - single deck: 8.00" / 203 mm For and Aft decks
Forecastle: 4.00" / 102 mm Quarter deck: 4.00" / 102 mm

- Conning towers: Forward 15.00" / 381 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
Coal fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 46,810 shp / 34,920 Kw = 20.70 kts
Range 4,000nm at 12.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 2,954 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
1,955 - 2,542

Cost:
£16.643 million / $66.571 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 5,148 tons, 8.4 %
Armour: 25,515 tons, 41.4 %
- Belts: 8,218 tons, 13.3 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 1,623 tons, 2.6 %
- Armament: 5,000 tons, 8.1 %
- Armour Deck: 10,168 tons, 16.5 %
- Conning Tower: 504 tons, 0.8 %
Machinery: 1,672 tons, 2.7 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 24,625 tons, 39.9 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 4,633 tons, 7.5 %
Miscellaneous weights: 50 tons, 0.1 %
- On freeboard deck: 50 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
107,495 lbs / 48,759 Kg = 26.9 x 20.0 " / 508 mm shells or 19.2 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.08
Metacentric height 7.5 ft / 2.3 m
Roll period: 18.2 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 85 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.97
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.48

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a ram bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.561 / 0.563
Length to Beam Ratio: 7.64 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 30.04 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 29 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 57
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 27.07 ft / 8.25 m, 24.61 ft / 7.50 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 24.61 ft / 7.50 m, 24.61 ft / 7.50 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 24.61 ft / 7.50 m, 24.61 ft / 7.50 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 24.61 ft / 7.50 m, 24.61 ft / 7.50 m
- Average freeboard: 24.80 ft / 7.56 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 66.6 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 180.1 %
Waterplane Area: 75,140 Square feet or 6,981 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 105 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 248 lbs/sq ft or 1,211 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.96
- Longitudinal: 1.42
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

EDIT: Changed freeboard up 0.25m over her whole length to make her more buoyant and able to absorb more shells.
EDIT 2: Last report was showing no engines for some reason.

Posted: **2009-10-28 08:06pm**

Okay your very competitive designs are already almost killing the fun before the game can start. Keep telling yourselves that it is not true, but all the people not using springsharp are going to start crying once they are told we are bring 20 in guns into play.

Anyway for your consideration 1910 battleship in both pre and post 1923 refit, and a intermediate 1916 Battle-cruiser. Comments are more than welcome.

Code: Select all

Muhsin, Sudanese Battleship laid down 1910 Post 1923 refit

Displacement:
	29,518 t light; 31,253 t standard; 37,015 t normal; 41,625 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
	(730.00 ft / 730.00 ft) x 100.00 ft (Bulges 105.00 ft) x (27.00 / 29.95 ft)
	(222.50 m / 222.50 m) x 30.48 m (Bulges 32.00 m)  x (8.23 / 9.13 m)

Armament:
      8 - 17.00" / 432 mm 45.0 cal guns - 2,477.44lbs / 1,123.75kg shells, 85 per gun
	  Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1923 Model
	  2 x 2 row quad mounts on centreline, evenly spread
      16 - 4.00" / 102 mm 45.0 cal guns - 32.27lbs / 14.64kg shells, 120 per gun
	  Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1910 Model
	  16 x Single mounts on centreline, evenly spread
      32 - 0.75" / 19.1 mm 45.0 cal guns - 0.21lbs / 0.10kg shells, 1,500 per gun
	  Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1918 Model
	  32 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      3 - 6.50" / 165 mm 30.0 cal guns - 126.56lbs / 57.41kg shells, 90 per gun
	  Quick firing guns in open barbette mounts, 1914 Model
	  3 x Single mounts on centreline ends, majority aft
      Weight of broadside 20,722 lbs / 9,400 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:		Width (max)	Length (avg)		Height (avg)
	Main:	10.0" / 254 mm	496.40 ft / 151.30 m	12.00 ft / 3.66 m
	Ends:	6.00" / 152 mm	233.58 ft / 71.20 m	12.00 ft / 3.66 m
	Upper:	5.00" / 127 mm	496.40 ft / 151.30 m	8.00 ft / 2.44 m
	  Main Belt covers 105 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead - Additional damage containing bulkheads:
		4.00" / 102 mm	496.40 ft / 151.30 m	25.72 ft / 7.84 m
	Beam between torpedo bulkheads 92.99 ft / 28.34 m

   - Gun armour:	Face (max)	Other gunhouse (avg)	Barbette/hoist (max)
	Main:	9.00" / 229 mm	      -			4.50" / 114 mm
	2nd:	3.00" / 76 mm	      -			      -
	4th:	      -		      -			2.00" / 51 mm

   - Armoured deck - multiple decks:
	For and Aft decks: 4.00" / 102 mm
	Forecastle: 2.00" / 51 mm  Quarter deck: 3.50" / 89 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 9.00" / 229 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
	Coal fired boilers, steam turbines, 
	Direct drive, 4 shafts, 38,520 shp / 28,736 Kw = 21.00 kts
	Range 7,000nm at 16.50 kts
	Bunker at max displacement = 10,372 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
	1,333 - 1,734

Cost:
	£3.168 million / $12.671 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
	Armament: 3,972 tons, 10.7 %
	   - Guns: 3,972 tons, 10.7 %
	Armour: 10,743 tons, 29.0 %
	   - Belts: 4,004 tons, 10.8 %
	   - Torpedo bulkhead: 1,890 tons, 5.1 %
	   - Armament: 771 tons, 2.1 %
	   - Armour Deck: 3,863 tons, 10.4 %
	   - Conning Tower: 215 tons, 0.6 %
	Machinery: 1,751 tons, 4.7 %
	Hull, fittings & equipment: 13,052 tons, 35.3 %
	Fuel, ammunition & stores: 7,497 tons, 20.3 %
	Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0.0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
	Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
	  65,699 lbs / 29,800 Kg = 26.7 x 17.0 " / 432 mm shells or 12.5 torpedoes
	Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.41
	Metacentric height 9.1 ft / 2.8 m
	Roll period: 14.6 seconds
	Steadiness	- As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
			- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.54
	Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.36

Hull form characteristics:
	Hull has a flush deck,
	  a normal bow and a cruiser stern
	Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.626 / 0.635
	Length to Beam Ratio: 6.95 : 1
	'Natural speed' for length: 27.02 kts
	Power going to wave formation at top speed: 37 %
	Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 52
	Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
	Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
	Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
				Fore end,	 Aft end
	   - Forecastle:	20.00 %,  20.00 ft / 6.10 m,  20.00 ft / 6.10 m
	   - Forward deck:	30.00 %,  20.00 ft / 6.10 m,  20.00 ft / 6.10 m
	   - Aft deck:	38.00 %,  20.00 ft / 6.10 m,  20.00 ft / 6.10 m
	   - Quarter deck:	12.00 %,  20.00 ft / 6.10 m,  20.00 ft / 6.10 m
	   - Average freeboard:		20.00 ft / 6.10 m
	Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
	Space	- Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 66.1 %
		- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 156.3 %
	Waterplane Area: 54,699 Square feet or 5,082 Square metres
	Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 115 %
	Structure weight / hull surface area: 200 lbs/sq ft or 977 Kg/sq metre
	Hull strength (Relative):
		- Cross-sectional: 0.97
		- Longitudinal: 1.22
		- Overall: 1.00
	Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
	Excellent accommodation and workspace room
	Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
	Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Code: Select all

Muhsin, Sudanese Battleship laid down 1910 As built

Displacement:
	28,023 t light; 29,684 t standard; 35,253 t normal; 39,708 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
	(730.00 ft / 730.00 ft) x 100.00 ft x (27.00 / 29.85 ft)
	(222.50 m / 222.50 m) x 30.48 m  x (8.23 / 9.10 m)

Armament:
      16 - 12.00" / 305 mm 45.0 cal guns - 871.37lbs / 395.24kg shells, 85 per gun
	  Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1910 Model
	  4 x 2 row quad mounts on centreline, evenly spread
		2 raised mounts
      16 - 4.00" / 102 mm 45.0 cal guns - 32.27lbs / 14.64kg shells, 120 per gun
	  Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1910 Model
	  16 x Single mounts on centreline, evenly spread
      10 - 2.50" / 63.5 mm 45.0 cal guns - 7.88lbs / 3.57kg shells, 150 per gun
	  Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1910 Model
	  10 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      40 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm 45.0 cal guns - 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 3,000 per gun
	  Machine guns in deck mounts, 1914 Model
	  40 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      6 - 10.00" / 254 mm 45.0 cal guns - 504.26lbs / 228.73kg shells, 150 per gun
	  Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1910 Model
	  6 x Single mounts on centreline, forward deck forward
      Weight of broadside 17,565 lbs / 7,967 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:		Width (max)	Length (avg)		Height (avg)
	Main:	10.0" / 254 mm	496.40 ft / 151.30 m	12.00 ft / 3.66 m
	Ends:	6.00" / 152 mm	233.58 ft / 71.20 m	12.00 ft / 3.66 m
	Upper:	5.00" / 127 mm	496.40 ft / 151.30 m	8.00 ft / 2.44 m
	  Main Belt covers 105 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead - Additional damage containing bulkheads:
		4.00" / 102 mm	496.40 ft / 151.30 m	25.72 ft / 7.84 m
	Beam between torpedo bulkheads 92.99 ft / 28.34 m

   - Gun armour:	Face (max)	Other gunhouse (avg)	Barbette/hoist (max)
	Main:	9.00" / 229 mm	      -			4.50" / 114 mm
	2nd:	3.00" / 76 mm	      -			      -
	3rd:	3.00" / 76 mm	      -			      -
	4th:	1.00" / 25 mm	      -			      -
	5th:	5.00" / 127 mm	      -			      -

   - Armoured deck - multiple decks:
	For and Aft decks: 4.00" / 102 mm
	Forecastle: 2.00" / 51 mm  Quarter deck: 3.50" / 89 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 9.00" / 229 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
	Coal fired boilers, steam turbines, 
	Direct drive, 4 shafts, 37,164 shp / 27,724 Kw = 21.00 kts
	Range 7,000nm at 16.50 kts
	Bunker at max displacement = 10,024 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
	1,286 - 1,672

Cost:
	£2.690 million / $10.760 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
	Armament: 3,576 tons, 10.1 %
	   - Guns: 3,576 tons, 10.1 %
	Armour: 11,144 tons, 31.6 %
	   - Belts: 4,004 tons, 11.4 %
	   - Torpedo bulkhead: 1,890 tons, 5.4 %
	   - Armament: 1,179 tons, 3.3 %
	   - Armour Deck: 3,863 tons, 11.0 %
	   - Conning Tower: 208 tons, 0.6 %
	Machinery: 1,689 tons, 4.8 %
	Hull, fittings & equipment: 11,513 tons, 32.7 %
	Fuel, ammunition & stores: 7,230 tons, 20.5 %
	Miscellaneous weights: 100 tons, 0.3 %
	   - On freeboard deck: 100 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
	Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
	  70,662 lbs / 32,052 Kg = 81.8 x 12.0 " / 305 mm shells or 14.3 torpedoes
	Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.32
	Metacentric height 8.2 ft / 2.5 m
	Roll period: 14.6 seconds
	Steadiness	- As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
			- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.63
	Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.37

Hull form characteristics:
	Hull has a flush deck,
	  a normal bow and a cruiser stern
	Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.626 / 0.638
	Length to Beam Ratio: 7.30 : 1
	'Natural speed' for length: 27.02 kts
	Power going to wave formation at top speed: 36 %
	Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 51
	Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
	Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
	Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
				Fore end,	 Aft end
	   - Forecastle:	20.00 %,  20.00 ft / 6.10 m,  20.00 ft / 6.10 m
	   - Forward deck:	30.00 %,  20.00 ft / 6.10 m,  20.00 ft / 6.10 m
	   - Aft deck:	38.00 %,  20.00 ft / 6.10 m,  20.00 ft / 6.10 m
	   - Quarter deck:	12.00 %,  20.00 ft / 6.10 m,  20.00 ft / 6.10 m
	   - Average freeboard:		20.00 ft / 6.10 m
	Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
	Space	- Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 58.2 %
		- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 162.0 %
	Waterplane Area: 54,699 Square feet or 5,082 Square metres
	Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 123 %
	Structure weight / hull surface area: 183 lbs/sq ft or 894 Kg/sq metre
	Hull strength (Relative):
		- Cross-sectional: 0.99
		- Longitudinal: 1.15
		- Overall: 1.00
	Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
	Excellent accommodation and workspace room
	Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
	Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
	4 Seaplanes

Code: Select all

Ishmael, Sudanese Battlecruiser laid down 1916

Displacement:
	23,807 t light; 25,466 t standard; 33,162 t normal; 39,319 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
	(732.00 ft / 724.00 ft) x 99.50 ft x (30.40 / 34.77 ft)
	(223.11 m / 220.68 m) x 30.33 m  x (9.27 / 10.60 m)

Armament:
      6 - 14.50" / 368 mm 60.0 cal guns - 1,669.63lbs / 757.33kg shells, 150 per gun
	  Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1916 Model
	  3 x 2-gun mounts on centreline ends, majority forward
		1 raised mount - superfiring
      2 - 8.00" / 203 mm 45.0 cal guns - 258.18lbs / 117.11kg shells, 150 per gun
	  Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mount, 1916 Model
	  1 x 2-gun mount on centreline, aft deck centre
		1 raised mount
      10 - 6.50" / 165 mm 45.0 cal guns - 138.47lbs / 62.81kg shells, 150 per gun
	  Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1916 Model
	  10 x Single mounts on centreline, evenly spread
		10 raised mounts
      10 - 0.75" / 19.1 mm 45.0 cal guns - 0.22lbs / 0.10kg shells, 2,000 per gun
	  Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1916 Model
	  10 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      Weight of broadside 11,921 lbs / 5,407 kg
      Main Torpedoes
      4 - 21.0" / 533 mm, 10.00 ft / 3.05 m torpedoes - 0.695 t each, 2.782 t total
	In 1 sets of deck mounted carriage/fixed tubes

Armour:
   - Belts:		Width (max)	Length (avg)		Height (avg)
	Main:	4.00" / 102 mm	492.32 ft / 150.06 m	11.97 ft / 3.65 m
	Ends:	0.50" / 13 mm	231.66 ft / 70.61 m	11.97 ft / 3.65 m
	Upper:	0.30" / 8 mm	492.32 ft / 150.06 m	8.00 ft / 2.44 m
	  Main Belt covers 105 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead - Additional damage containing bulkheads:
		2.00" / 51 mm	492.32 ft / 150.06 m	27.50 ft / 8.38 m
	Beam between torpedo bulkheads 90.00 ft / 27.43 m

   - Gun armour:	Face (max)	Other gunhouse (avg)	Barbette/hoist (max)
	Main:	8.00" / 203 mm	      -			4.00" / 102 mm
	2nd:	6.00" / 152 mm	      -			5.00" / 127 mm

   - Armoured deck - single deck:
	For and Aft decks: 2.00" / 51 mm
	Forecastle: 1.00" / 25 mm  Quarter deck: 1.00" / 25 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 5.00" / 127 mm, Aft 0.50" / 13 mm

Machinery:
	Coal fired boilers, steam turbines, 
	Geared drive, 4 shafts, 124,770 shp / 93,079 Kw = 29.50 kts
	Range 11,000nm at 18.00 kts
	Bunker at max displacement = 13,854 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
	1,228 - 1,597

Cost:
	£4.759 million / $19.038 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
	Armament: 3,097 tons, 9.3 %
	   - Guns: 3,093 tons, 9.3 %
	   - Weapons: 3 tons, 0.0 %
	Armour: 4,650 tons, 14.0 %
	   - Belts: 1,093 tons, 3.3 %
	   - Torpedo bulkhead: 1,002 tons, 3.0 %
	   - Armament: 740 tons, 2.2 %
	   - Armour Deck: 1,693 tons, 5.1 %
	   - Conning Towers: 122 tons, 0.4 %
	Machinery: 5,114 tons, 15.4 %
	Hull, fittings & equipment: 10,847 tons, 32.7 %
	Fuel, ammunition & stores: 9,355 tons, 28.2 %
	Miscellaneous weights: 100 tons, 0.3 %
	   - On freeboard deck: 100 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
	Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
	  40,043 lbs / 18,163 Kg = 26.3 x 14.5 " / 368 mm shells or 10.6 torpedoes
	Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.31
	Metacentric height 8.0 ft / 2.5 m
	Roll period: 14.7 seconds
	Steadiness	- As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
			- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.48
	Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.16

Hull form characteristics:
	Hull has a flush deck,
	  a normal bow and a round stern
	Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.530 / 0.549
	Length to Beam Ratio: 7.28 : 1
	'Natural speed' for length: 26.91 kts
	Power going to wave formation at top speed: 52 %
	Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 61
	Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
	Stern overhang: 8.00 ft / 2.44 m
	Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
				Fore end,	 Aft end
	   - Forecastle:	20.00 %,  25.00 ft / 7.62 m,  21.00 ft / 6.40 m
	   - Forward deck:	30.00 %,  21.00 ft / 6.40 m,  20.00 ft / 6.10 m
	   - Aft deck:	38.00 %,  20.00 ft / 6.10 m,  20.00 ft / 6.10 m
	   - Quarter deck:	12.00 %,  20.00 ft / 6.10 m,  20.00 ft / 6.10 m
	   - Average freeboard:		20.67 ft / 6.30 m
	Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
	Space	- Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 97.0 %
		- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 154.5 %
	Waterplane Area: 49,343 Square feet or 4,584 Square metres
	Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 119 %
	Structure weight / hull surface area: 178 lbs/sq ft or 870 Kg/sq metre
	Hull strength (Relative):
		- Cross-sectional: 0.96
		- Longitudinal: 1.33
		- Overall: 1.00
	Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
	Excellent accommodation and workspace room
	Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
	4 aircraft carried

Posted: **2009-10-28 08:13pm**

With an NF of 1, who builds those larger ships for you?

Posted: **2009-10-28 08:22pm**

It's not ships (well, not sea-going ships), but this sounds like the place to talk about the concept... But what about airborne carriers? We know the concept actually works; the USA built two zeppelin carriers in real life. I intend to expand upon the concept, and damn the torpedoes -- it's airship carriers, dammit! The concept is awesome enough to warrant some exploration, considering this is the Interbellum and crazy weapons systems abound.

Posted: **2009-10-28 08:43pm**

*cough*

Anyway, fun aside, the 60kt limit is a hard limit. No ships over 60kt.

Also, 18" guns are the max, period. If I see one gun bigger, it blows up in firing trials.
No more than 9 18" guns. Smaller guns could potentially be done up to 12 if they're very new (I may even allow an Agincourt-style 14 gun design if the guns are even smaller, just 12 or 14"). Come ask.
I'll let you round up to the nearest good rounded figure of pounds on the shell weight that SpringSharp generates for you, no more than 3,000lbs. though.

I remain final authority on designs proposed. I don't like them, they don't get built. Or you build them anyway and they get the business end of Modnir.

Posted: **2009-10-28 09:08pm**

A fully rules compliant version of my ship, fear the might of her 75 caliber 18" guns.

EDIT: This is assuming that the 3,000lb. weight limit on shells only applies if you want lots of guns... If not I can redesign.

PSS Orgulho Invencível, Portuguese Battleship laid down 1924 (Engine 1925)

Displacement:
57,092 t light; 59,785 t standard; 61,422 t normal; 62,732 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(902.23 ft / 902.23 ft) x 118.11 ft x (36.09 / 36.70 ft)
(275.00 m / 275.00 m) x 36.00 m x (11.00 / 11.19 m)

Armament:
8 - 18.00" / 457 mm 75.0 cal guns - 3,298.81lbs / 1,496.31kg shells, 90 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1924 Model
1 x Quad mount on centreline, forward evenly spread
1 x Quad mount on centreline, aft evenly spread
12 - 6.00" / 152 mm 45.0 cal guns - 108.92lbs / 49.41kg shells, 140 per gun
Quick firing guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1924 Model
6 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
16 - 4.00" / 102 mm 45.0 cal guns - 32.27lbs / 14.64kg shells, 150 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1924 Model
4 x 4 row quad mounts on sides, evenly spread
48 - 0.30" / 7.7 mm 45.0 cal guns - 0.01lbs / 0.00kg shells, 3,000 per gun
Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1924 Model
12 x 4 row quad mounts on sides, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 28,214 lbs / 12,798 kg

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 18.0" / 457 mm 600.00 ft / 182.88 m 18.00 ft / 5.49 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 102 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead:
4.50" / 114 mm 650.00 ft / 198.12 m 15.00 ft / 4.57 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 19.0" / 483 mm 16.0" / 406 mm 19.0" / 483 mm
2nd: 2.00" / 51 mm 1.00" / 25 mm 1.00" / 25 mm
3rd: 1.00" / 25 mm - -

- Armoured deck - single deck: 8.00" / 203 mm For and Aft decks
Forecastle: 4.00" / 102 mm Quarter deck: 4.00" / 102 mm

- Conning towers: Forward 15.00" / 381 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
Coal fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 67,492 shp / 50,349 Kw = 22.99 kts
Range 4,000nm at 12.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 2,947 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
1,950 - 2,536

Cost:
£20.346 million / $81.386 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 7,197 tons, 11.7 %
Armour: 24,789 tons, 40.4 %
- Belts: 8,217 tons, 13.4 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 1,623 tons, 2.6 %
- Armament: 4,296 tons, 7.0 %
- Armour Deck: 10,149 tons, 16.5 %
- Conning Tower: 503 tons, 0.8 %
Machinery: 2,410 tons, 3.9 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 22,646 tons, 36.9 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 4,331 tons, 7.1 %
Miscellaneous weights: 50 tons, 0.1 %
- On freeboard deck: 50 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
80,700 lbs / 36,605 Kg = 27.7 x 18.0 " / 457 mm shells or 12.1 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.08
Metacentric height 7.5 ft / 2.3 m
Roll period: 18.1 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 80 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.77
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.45

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a ram bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.559 / 0.561
Length to Beam Ratio: 7.64 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 30.04 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 34 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 55
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 27.07 ft / 8.25 m, 24.61 ft / 7.50 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 24.61 ft / 7.50 m, 24.61 ft / 7.50 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 24.61 ft / 7.50 m, 24.61 ft / 7.50 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 24.61 ft / 7.50 m, 24.61 ft / 7.50 m
- Average freeboard: 24.80 ft / 7.56 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 88.2 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 180.3 %
Waterplane Area: 74,999 Square feet or 6,968 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 88 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 237 lbs/sq ft or 1,155 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.97
- Longitudinal: 1.29
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Posted: **2009-10-28 09:32pm**

Steve wrote:With an NF of 1, who builds those larger ships for you?

On my initial point spread, the one with NF of 1, I over valued my home territory as a 5. As it actually is my math points to 4.25 million sq kilometers which is distinctly in the range of a 4 in home Territory and provides an extra point into Naval Focus.

Posted: **2009-10-28 09:44pm**

Norade wrote:A fully rules compliant version of my ship, fear the might of her 75 caliber 18" guns.

EDIT: This is assuming that the 3,000lb. weight limit on shells only applies if you want lots of guns... If not I can redesign.

It applies to all guns, I am afraid.

In any case, here are my likely final designs:

a) The Heavy Hitter

Einheit class, Germany Battleship laid down 1925

Displacement:
57.246 t light; 60.000 t standard; 61.452 t normal; 62.613 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(770,06 ft / 728,35 ft) x 157,48 ft x (36,09 / 36,61 ft)
(234,71 m / 222,00 m) x 48,00 m x (11,00 / 11,16 m)

Armament:
9 - 18,00" / 457 mm 45,0 cal guns - 3.000,00lbs / 1.360,78kg shells, 90 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1925 Model
3 x Triple mounts on centreline ends, majority forward
1 raised mount - superfiring
16 - 6,00" / 152 mm 45,0 cal guns - 108,92lbs / 49,41kg shells, 150 per gun
Quick firing guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1925 Model
8 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
8 - 3,94" / 100,0 mm 45,0 cal guns - 30,77lbs / 13,96kg shells, 150 per gun
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts, 1925 Model
8 x Single mounts on sides amidships
24 - 1,57" / 40,0 mm 45,0 cal guns - 1,97lbs / 0,89kg shells, 300 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1925 Model
24 x Single mounts on sides amidships
24 - 0,79" / 20,0 mm 45,0 cal guns - 0,25lbs / 0,11kg shells, 500 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1925 Model
6 x Quad mounts on sides, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 29.042 lbs / 13.173 kg

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 18,0" / 457 mm 600,00 ft / 182,88 m 20,00 ft / 6,10 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 127% of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead:
3,00" / 76 mm 600,00 ft / 182,88 m 30,00 ft / 9,14 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 20,0" / 508 mm 13,0" / 330 mm 14,0" / 356 mm
2nd: 2,00" / 51 mm 1,00" / 25 mm 1,00" / 25 mm
3rd: 1,00" / 25 mm - -
4th: 1,00" / 25 mm - -
5th: 1,00" / 25 mm - -

- Armoured deck - single deck: 9,00" / 229 mm For and Aft decks
Forecastle: 3,00" / 76 mm Quarter deck: 3,00" / 76 mm

- Conning towers: Forward 8,00" / 203 mm, Aft 0,00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 43.422 shp / 32.393 Kw = 20,00 kts
Range 5.000nm at 12,00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 2.614 tons

Complement:
1.950 - 2.536

Cost:
£15,864 million / $63,455 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 4.552 tons, 7,4%
Armour: 27.842 tons, 45,3%
- Belts: 9.192 tons, 15,0%
- Torpedo bulkhead: 1.998 tons, 3,3%
- Armament: 4.565 tons, 7,4%
- Armour Deck: 11.818 tons, 19,2%
- Conning Tower: 268 tons, 0,4%
Machinery: 1.410 tons, 2,3%
Hull, fittings & equipment: 23.367 tons, 38,0%
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 4.206 tons, 6,8%
Miscellaneous weights: 75 tons, 0,1%
- Above deck: 75 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
144.337 lbs / 65.470 Kg = 49,5 x 18,0 " / 457 mm shells or 38,4 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,50
Metacentric height 19,7 ft / 6,0 m
Roll period: 14,9 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,23
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,52

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a round stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,520 / 0,522
Length to Beam Ratio: 4,63 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 26,99 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 37 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 46
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 40,00 degrees
Stern overhang: 19,69 ft / 6,00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 16,00%, 26,25 ft / 8,00 m, 22,31 ft / 6,80 m
- Forward deck: 34,00%, 22,31 ft / 6,80 m, 22,31 ft / 6,80 m
- Aft deck: 37,00%, 22,31 ft / 6,80 m, 22,31 ft / 6,80 m
- Quarter deck: 13,00%, 22,31 ft / 6,80 m, 21,33 ft / 6,50 m
- Average freeboard: 22,50 ft / 6,86 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 53,8%
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 169,6%
Waterplane Area: 77.810 Square feet or 7.229 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 110%
Structure weight / hull surface area: 258 lbs/sq ft or 1.261 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0,93
- Longitudinal: 1,89
- Overall: 1,00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

75t for three aircraft carried

b) The medium fast battelship

Bismarck class, Germany Battleship laid down 1925

Displacement:
57.253 t light; 59.999 t standard; 62.872 t normal; 65.170 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(918,01 ft / 869,42 ft) x 137,80 ft x (36,09 / 37,09 ft)
(279,81 m / 265,00 m) x 42,00 m x (11,00 / 11,30 m)

Armament:
9 - 18,00" / 457 mm 45,0 cal guns - 3.000,00lbs / 1.360,78kg shells, 90 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1925 Model
3 x Triple mounts on centreline ends, majority forward
1 raised mount - superfiring
12 - 6,00" / 152 mm 45,0 cal guns - 108,92lbs / 49,41kg shells, 150 per gun
Quick firing guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1925 Model
6 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
8 - 3,94" / 100,0 mm 45,0 cal guns - 30,77lbs / 13,96kg shells, 150 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1925 Model
8 x Single mounts on sides amidships
24 - 1,57" / 40,0 mm 45,0 cal guns - 1,97lbs / 0,89kg shells, 300 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1925 Model
24 x Single mounts on sides amidships
24 - 0,79" / 20,0 mm 45,0 cal guns - 0,25lbs / 0,11kg shells, 500 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1925 Model
6 x Quad mounts on sides, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 28.606 lbs / 12.976 kg

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 18,0" / 457 mm 380,00 ft / 115,82 m 18,00 ft / 5,49 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 67% of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead:
3,00" / 76 mm 500,00 ft / 152,40 m 30,00 ft / 9,14 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 20,0" / 508 mm 12,0" / 305 mm 14,0" / 356 mm
2nd: 2,00" / 51 mm 1,00" / 25 mm 1,00" / 25 mm
3rd: 1,00" / 25 mm - -
4th: 1,00" / 25 mm - -
5th: 1,00" / 25 mm - -

- Armoured deck - single deck: 8,00" / 203 mm For and Aft decks
Forecastle: 3,00" / 76 mm Quarter deck: 3,00" / 76 mm

- Conning towers: Forward 15,00" / 381 mm, Aft 0,00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 108.358 shp / 80.835 Kw = 26,00 kts
Range 5.000nm at 17,00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 5.171 tons

Complement:
1.984 - 2.580

Cost:
£16,696 million / $66,784 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 4.450 tons, 7,1%
Armour: 23.689 tons, 37,7%
- Belts: 5.923 tons, 9,4%
- Torpedo bulkhead: 1.665 tons, 2,6%
- Armament: 4.651 tons, 7,4%
- Armour Deck: 10.938 tons, 17,4%
- Conning Tower: 511 tons, 0,8%
Machinery: 3.518 tons, 5,6%
Hull, fittings & equipment: 25.521 tons, 40,6%
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 5.619 tons, 8,9%
Miscellaneous weights: 75 tons, 0,1%
- Above deck: 75 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
121.872 lbs / 55.280 Kg = 41,8 x 18,0 " / 457 mm shells or 24,0 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,29
Metacentric height 12,7 ft / 3,9 m
Roll period: 16,2 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,45
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,50

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a round stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,509 / 0,513
Length to Beam Ratio: 6,31 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 29,49 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 42 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 47
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 40,00 degrees
Stern overhang: 19,69 ft / 6,00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 16,00%, 34,45 ft / 10,50 m, 24,44 ft / 7,45 m
- Forward deck: 34,00%, 24,44 ft / 7,45 m, 25,92 ft / 7,90 m
- Aft deck: 37,00%, 25,92 ft / 7,90 m, 24,44 ft / 7,45 m
- Quarter deck: 13,00%, 24,44 ft / 7,45 m, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m
- Average freeboard: 25,51 ft / 7,78 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 65,6%
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 194,6%
Waterplane Area: 80.478 Square feet or 7.477 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 113%
Structure weight / hull surface area: 252 lbs/sq ft or 1.229 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0,95
- Longitudinal: 1,51
- Overall: 1,00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

75t for three aircraft carried

c) And the fast speed version, which I will not show at the moment.

Posted: **2009-10-28 10:29pm**

*looks at Norade's design and the guns*

Posted: **2009-10-28 10:32pm**

Fear my hypervelocity cannons!

Posted: **2009-10-28 10:35pm**

Norade wrote:Fear my hypervelocity cannons!

*looks at Mod Hammer Modnir, puts it back*

*takes out slide rule borrowed from naval enthusiast friend, begins stabbing Norade repeatedly*

45! 45! NOT 75!

*stabs him a few more times for good measure*

....there. Anyone else want an absurdly-long gun length?

Posted: **2009-10-28 10:37pm**

I'm fairly certain that's not going to fly.

Posted: **2009-10-28 10:42pm**

I know, it was just too funny not to try. However I'm sure there is no reason outside of game balance why they couldn't work... I just wouldn't want to be anywhere near the first prototypes before they made the breech strong enough.

This does mean that everybody will be running around with 3x3 18" 45 caliber gun turrets on everything though. Hell I did that on my 50kt design so I'm not even going to need to build anything larger. There is now no incentive to design anything larger than that and it would penalize me for being different and wanting to use a 4x2 turret layout with larger guns that can be afforded thanks to a less heavy design.

Posted: **2009-10-29 12:39am**

And how did Siam of all places achieve the ability to construct 60,000 ton monstrosities in 1925?

Nah, don't ask stupid me. I thought the punitive banning of over 50,000 ships was in effect at game start? No?

I mean, no nation even contemplated constructing over 50,000 ton ships, and the British came close to that limit with the N3 project. And that required, I believe, quite the industry and quite the shipyards. Not to mention ordering hell of a lot of parts from more industrialized nations in case your industry is lacking.

And the dock size limits? It pressed the Nelson's length down to 216 m, displacement to 35,000 tons, width to 32 m. And that was Britain, the foremost naval power on Earth. Does Siam have at least a few docks to service those ships, or it doesn't really and they'll be exploited without the capability for repair anyhow, because the docks will be occupied by other ships at construction?

Another example: France. No ability to construct ships with displacement in excess of ~25 000 tons (hence their gaming-around with armament and jumping to 4-gun turrets, much like the Russians). Both being unable due to shipyards to construct ships with size much exceeing 200 m and displacement exceeding 30 000 tons, Russia and France were forced to rethink armament placement and devise various workarounds.

So the "60,000" ton floating engineering challenge might be a little too much for the great Naval Power of Siam.

Posted: **2009-10-29 12:41am**

Steve wrote:45! 45! NOT 75!

Seriously? Are we not allowed to use guns longer than 45 calibres now?

Posted: **2009-10-29 12:54am**

Yeah, that makes no sense. Late WWI designs employed guns in excess of 50 calibers.

Posted: **2009-10-29 01:25am**

Unless you can show me functioning, workable naval guns at 75 caliber - or really anything over 55 - then no.

That said, I do admit error in how I put that and how it might seem I was forbidding anything over 45. I didn't intend to, I apologize, I was giving in to my impulse for some melodrama entertainment.

StarDestroyer.Net BBS

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