Mexican Flag at school yanked down and Burned

[Pick]

The following comment is based on personal honest-to-God experience. It only relays my personal perspective based on firsthand exposure to the issue. I do not claim to have any understanding of the full issue at hand. Thank you.

The thing that bothers me is that I've hung around with Russian and Chinese immigrants a fair bit, and they seem much better about contributing to the welfare of their new nation. I've never met people who worked as hard as the Chinese immigrants I knew (and their families), which is not the say the Russians weren't driven too. Also, the last year I was in middle school we had a standardized test for English literacy. Tracey (real name something else, she just called herself Tracey) did third best of all the students --and she'd come over from China only two years prior from one of the shitty, backwards parts. All her time was spent working to be the best possible citizen and to adapt to the United States and its culture. Luba, a Russian girl I knew, was so good at English that I didn't even know that she had come from Russia the previous summer. Sadly, I believe she died in a house fire a few years ago... anyway....

Yet somehow, in my personal experience, I don't see this same drive for immersion in the Mexican immigrants of our area --and trust me, we have quite a lot (farming stuff, naturally.) I really don't like to be bigoted, but my experiences with the differing nature of their immigrants versus those from other nations makes me a little unhappy. Tracey and Luba never went around parading their prior home. They wanted to be Americans, and they acted like it. They spoke English as much as they could, studied constantly to improve their written English capability, and attempted to the best of their ability to become part of what had attracted them so much in the first place. What's the point of coming to a new nation if you try to make it like your old one?

[Jason von Evil]

Those are cops, Elfdart.

[Knife]

Which is why these people need to be deported to Ireland:

[img]snip%20pic[/img]

Not only do the Irish flags look bigger, they are held up higher.

You know, if mexican immergrants wanna fly the Mexican Flag on the 5th of May in a parade, I don't think many people would have a problem. However, since it was in response to immigration laws being proposed, they are not really getting much sympathy from me. Truely, if they want to be seen as 'up and coming Americans' they should have been waving the American flag. Waving around the Mexican one, just seems like they want to pick a fight.

[Wicked Pilot]

Yeap. I'm exactly the most nationalistic type out there, but unless you are a foreign embassy, I don't care to see huge flags from other countries displayed more prominently than (in this case) the U.S. flag. I would feel the same no matter what country I lived in.

Well I'm not saying they should throw their Mexiacn flags out with the garbage. I just think when they're trying to support favorable immigration policies they should be a little bit more savy and suck a little more patriotic cock. It's the American way after all.

[Elfdart]

Those are cops, Elfdart.

So?

They're held in a parade. That's different than wringing one up.

Only in the most superficial way.

Yes, but they aren't asking for a return of lands gained in a war by us, nor are they trying to have more babies to become a voting majority.

Any evidence that the kids who cut class or hoisted a Mexican flag are out to do reunite the Southwest with Mexico? Or are they just reacting to what they have rightly construed as an attack on their ethnic background?

The whole bugaboo about Mexican immigrants trying to grab everything from Texas to California is a white supremacist grande peur anyway and as Alex Koppelman shows, comes from the same demented fever swamp as The Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion:

http://www.dfire.org/x2273.xml

Mexican Invasion!
Is one race really planning for control of U.S. territory?
by Alex Koppelman in New York, New York USA

The Jews are coming to overthrow our government!

Don’t believe me? Here, I’ll quote from their own plan for world domination, the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, which makes clear that the plan is “the labour of many centuries.”

“We shall triumph and bring all governments into subjection to our super-government,” it reads. “It is enough for them to know that we are merciless for all disobedience to cease.”

Mark my words — the Jews’ plan for world domination is a long-held notion among their intellectual elite and political class, and most of the members of the media won't dare breathe a word about this militant phenomenon, lest they be accused of... racism. Oh, the irony!

Okay, not really.

In fact, as a Jew myself I’m well aware that the Protocols are a libel against the Jewish people as a whole, a hoax perpetrated by the worst kind of racists and used to justify the wholesale slaughter of a people.

But this much is true: if I were to write seriously any of the above words, I would, and quite justly, never again be given a forum in the mainstream media.

So why do the people spreading similar lies about Mexican immigrants continue to get approbation and speaking time from the press?

Full disclosure: Most of the third paragraph of this column is lifted from the words of Michelle Malkin, a syndicated columnist, Fox News contributor and blogger. But Malkin wasn’t using those words to talk about Jews; she was talking about Mexicans, and the notions of Aztlan and reconquista.

“Aztlan is a long-held notion among Mexico's intellectual elite and political class,” Malkin wrote in her column Wednesday, “which asserts that the American southwest rightly belongs to Mexico. Advocates believe the reclamation (or reconquista) of Aztlan will occur through sheer demographic force. If the rallies across the country are any indication, reconquista is already complete.”

You might expect Malkin to give her readers some evidence that Aztlan really is “a long-held notion among Mexico’s intellectual elite and political class,” but she never does.

Why? Because Aztlan and reconquista these days aren’t, for the most part, ideas held by Mexicans: they’re ideas held by white supremacists and neo-Nazis. The myth of reconquista stems from a misreading of one of the founding documents of the Chicano movement, “El Plan Espiritual de Aztlan.”

In much the same way that the Black Power movement meant the words “Black Power” in a metaphorical sense, that is, as a call to African-Americans to recognize after years of being stigmatized that they too were people with something to contribute to society, “El Plan Espiritual de Aztlan” was an appeal to nationalism as a means to achieve a greater self-awareness and self-esteem.

But that’s not the way some white supremacists, fearful of a brown mass ready to take over the United States, has interpreted it.

A simple Google search shows that the people talking about Aztlan and reconquista are predominantly not Mexican (though there are some radical fringe groups) but white supremacists.

Like the Barnes Review, whose article on reconquista is popular enough to make it the second entry on a Google search for the word. When it’s not discussing reconquista, it’s publishing books of Holocaust revisionism and screeds by a former SS General, who wrote on the site,

“Is it just—is it decent—that those who foresaw the danger clearly—those who from 1941-45 blocked the gory path of Soviet tanks by hurling in sacrifice all their youth, the tender ties to their families, their young energies, and their desires—that they are treated as pariahs unto the day of their death and even beyond the grave?”

Then there’s the Pilgrims Covenant Church, whose Pastor Ralph Ovadal wrote, “he Roman Catholic Church has its own plan of reconquest. She is determined to reestablish the power she once exercised over the civil governments and populations of the world. The pope, along with the Reconquista cadre, views South, Central, and North Americas as being one ‘from Argentina to Alaska.’ On several occasions, Pope John Paul II has ‘consecrated’ this ‘America’ to ‘Our Lady of Guadalupe.’ The Mexican people streaming across America's porous southern border are Roman Catholics. It is in the interest of the Vatican to establish as many Roman Catholics as possible in the United States of America. The pope and his partners in spiritual crime care little how the job is done —whether illegally or legally — just so it is done.”

Now, I understand that the fact that racists are the only ones to discuss reconquista and Aztlan in the same tones as Malkin doesn’t necessarily make her a racist. But as if speaking in the same coded language as the racists wasn’t enough, Malkin makes no bones about allying herself with organizations that expound profoundly racist ideologies.

Organizations like VDARE, listed as a hate group by the Southern Poverty Law Center. Malkin’s columns are reprinted on VDARE’s website, and VDARE contributor Juan Mann is one of the principal contributors to the immigration blog on Malkin’s own site. Mann himself was propagating the reconquista myth in a column for VDARE Monday, writing that “An estimated 500,000 reconquistas took to the streets in Los Angeles over the past weekend to demand illegal alien amnesty.”

Again, no evidence was presented to prove that the 500,000 protesters were all reconquistas, or even that a majority were. (Malkin’s evidence was the quote of a single 16-year-old student who simply said, “This is unjust. This land used to belong to us and now they're trying to kick us out.”)

If Charles McKay were alive today he'd have another chapter to add to Extraordinary Popular Delusions & the Madness of Crowds.

[Captain Cyran]

I'm not a person who expects much from immigrants. Hell I don't even really think they need to become 'American' as I think it's one of the most nebulous terms for a country out there in terms of culture. But I do expect three things.

1. Learn the fucking language. I don't care if you wanna speak your native tongue at home or with your friends, but guess what, you're in a country where the all but official language is English, learn it and use it.
2. Show some patriotism. You came here for a reason, that reason usually being to get new opportunity in a new country. If you're so damn proud of your old country of origin, why the fuck are you here?
3. You are here legally. Nothing pisses me off more than people getting a free ticket then insisting on all the perks that come with actually being here legally.

[MKSheppard]

Alex Koppelman shows, comes from the same demented fever swamp as The Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion:

So the Mechista stuff was produced by the Okhrana too? Damn! Those russians are insanely efficient!

[brianeyci]

I'm not a person who expects much from immigrants. Hell I don't even really think they need to become 'American' as I think it's one of the most nebulous terms for a country out there in terms of culture. But I do expect three things.

1. Learn the fucking language. I don't care if you wanna speak your native tongue at home or with your friends, but guess what, you're in a country where the all but official language is English, learn it and use it.
2. Show some patriotism. You came here for a reason, that reason usually being to get new opportunity in a new country. If you're so damn proud of your old country of origin, why the fuck are you here?
3. You are here legally. Nothing pisses me off more than people getting a free ticket then insisting on all the perks that come with actually being here legally.

I agree with number one but not number two and three. Number two--you can show no patriotism but not go around waiving Mexican flags. I actually like that--too much patriotism turns me off. For number three it can be intepreted too many different ways, and I honestly don't care if my tax money goes to an illegal immigrant as long as the immigrant is being helped and deserves it. In fact the only kind of illegal immigrants who would piss me off would be people on welfare... as long as you can support yourself no big deal.

Brian

[Captain Cyran]

I agree with number one but not number two and three. Number two--you can show no patriotism but not go around waiving Mexican flags. I actually like that--too much patriotism turns me off. For number three it can be intepreted too many different ways, and I honestly don't care if my tax money goes to an illegal immigrant as long as the immigrant is being helped and deserves it. In fact the only kind of illegal immigrants who would piss me off would be people on welfare... as long as you can support yourself no big deal.

Brian

For number two I mainly was refering to not necessarily showing pride for where you are but more of not doing retarded stuff like putting the flag of your country of origin above the flag where you have moved to. As for number three, I was refering to the perks such as welfare.

[Redleader34]

This gets into flame wars quickly. Patrotism should not be blind we love America, and The Thing that I despise is the massive law barking. Why do they cross the border? The Border Patrol needs more money.. But about the main topic. Buring the flag seems to invite a riot. Thank god that people have had self control of things would be very diffrent. Burning lags is not nice and could be seen as a hostile measure tworads the Mesican Population. bu your points are valid brianeyci

[brianeyci]

I have a very hard time criticizing illegal immigration because it's just people going out and trying to find a better life for themselves. Break the law, big deal so is smoking weed. This "you take our jobs" bullshit needs verification beyond Shep's personal ancedotes and everybody else's. A lot of industries have had wage freezes since the 90's. Legal residents or citizens often work under the table for cash too so don't tell me it's because the conditions are unbearable. It's probably more to do with a culture thing--immigrants legal or not more likely work their ass off because they know what it's like to be poor and don't want to go back.

And honestly, if my tax dollars go to illegal immigrants, I don't give a shit as long as it's helping people who deserve help. Deserving meaning single mothers, disabled people, people who need a few months of help before self-supporting.

Brian

[Mal_Reynolds]

Burn that flag every time it's raised on U.S. soil. Deport illegals only once -- second time should be summary execution. Lastly, the United States should legally be at war with Mexico right now.

[Duckie]

Burn that flag every time it's raised on U.S. soil. Deport illegals only once -- second time should be summary execution. Lastly, the United States should legally be at war with Mexico right now.

!

Xenophobia much?

First off, what legal reason have we to be at war with Mexico? Because some Mexicans hopped the border. Give me a break. Further, what the fuck could we gain from a War with Mexico? I'd be willing to perhaps tolerate productive evil warmongering, but Mexico is a poor shithole thats main natural resources are desert and cactus.

I can't really address the legal issue of illegal immigration since I don't really give a fuck for a change on that particular issue, but somehow I get the feeling you might be overreacting slightly by issuing the death penalty. Just a tad, perhaps. And by tad I mean a gigantic fuckwad.

[FSTargetDrone]

Burn that flag every time it's raised on U.S. soil. Deport illegals only once -- second time should be summary execution. Lastly, the United States should legally be at war with Mexico right now.

Wow, those are some clever ideas. Did you come up with all of them yourself?

Why not hang the bodies of the executed on tall rusty poles , leaving the bloated corpses to be picked over by carrion birds (to discourage others from coming in, you see) and while we're at it, let's show them we really mean business by, oh, I don't know, marching a random few dozen of them against a wall and shooting them in the back of the head, live on television (transmitted on over-the-air TV), so those Mexicans can see it for themselves down south. Or, if you prefer, behead them.

[fgalkin]

Burn that flag every time it's raised on U.S. soil. Deport illegals only once -- second time should be summary execution. Lastly, the United States should legally be at war with Mexico right now.

Your name and avatar, and your ideas are at odds with each other. Please choose one.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

[Elfdart]

Burn that flag every time it's raised on U.S. soil. Deport illegals only once -- second time should be summary execution. Lastly, the United States should legally be at war with Mexico right now.

Are you related to Kadaeux? Or are you just an asshole?

[Zero]

The following comment is based on personal honest-to-God experience. It only relays my personal perspective based on firsthand exposure to the issue. I do not claim to have any understanding of the full issue at hand. Thank you.

The thing that bothers me is that I've hung around with Russian and Chinese immigrants a fair bit, and they seem much better about contributing to the welfare of their new nation. I've never met people who worked as hard as the Chinese immigrants I knew (and their families), which is not the say the Russians weren't driven too. Also, the last year I was in middle school we had a standardized test for English literacy. Tracey (real name something else, she just called herself Tracey) did third best of all the students --and she'd come over from China only two years prior from one of the shitty, backwards parts. All her time was spent working to be the best possible citizen and to adapt to the United States and its culture. Luba, a Russian girl I knew, was so good at English that I didn't even know that she had come from Russia the previous summer. Sadly, I believe she died in a house fire a few years ago... anyway....

Yet somehow, in my personal experience, I don't see this same drive for immersion in the Mexican immigrants of our area --and trust me, we have quite a lot (farming stuff, naturally.) I really don't like to be bigoted, but my experiences with the differing nature of their immigrants versus those from other nations makes me a little unhappy. Tracey and Luba never went around parading their prior home. They wanted to be Americans, and they acted like it. They spoke English as much as they could, studied constantly to improve their written English capability, and attempted to the best of their ability to become part of what had attracted them so much in the first place. What's the point of coming to a new nation if you try to make it like your old one?

As someone descended from mexicans, I can say that I'm not at all offended by what you've said. It's true. It may have to do with there being a lot of mexican immigrants; they don't have to learn to speak english to try to fit in to some cultural ideal. In my experience, there's also a lot of shit about how minorities believe that society is set against them. The general feeling that "the man" hates minorities causes people to dislike the public education system. It doesn't make a lot of sense, to me. And this is also all from personal experience. There are also exceptions, like my friend Anthony, and my other friend named Tony (I know, naming coincidence.. wierd), but for the most part, what you're saying goes along with my personal experiences too.

And I'm pretty sure it isn't racist to think of a race in terms of generalization. Being a racist would simply mean you apply the generalization to all members of said race

[Mal_Reynolds]

Burn that flag every time it's raised on U.S. soil. Deport illegals only once -- second time should be summary execution. Lastly, the United States should legally be at war with Mexico right now.

Are you related to Kadaeux? Or are you just an asshole?

I'm just someone who's had enough of being sold out. You don't like my opinion? Fine. Are you arguing the fact I put forward, though? When Mexican Army regulars are assisting their civilians in breaching our border, their government's actions put it in breach of the Treaty of Hidalgo, which was the treaty that ended hostilities in the War of 1848. Since their actions put them in breach of the treaty, the other party to the treaty -- that's us -- has every reason to resume military action.

[Big Brother]

Hell yeah, man! Go at 'em. I agree with you 100%

[Duckie]

I'm just someone who's had enough of being sold out. You don't like my opinion? Fine. Are you arguing the fact I put forward, though? When Mexican Army regulars are assisting their civilians in breaching our border, their government's actions put it in breach of the Treaty of Hidalgo, which was the treaty that ended hostilities in the War of 1848. Since their actions put them in breach of the treaty, the other party to the treaty -- that's us -- has every reason to resume military action.

Well that's nice.

Now, explain what we gain out of war with Mexico. Will it stop Mexican immigration? Are we going to kill every single goddamn Mexican to make it stop?

We sure as hell can't win a war against Mexico to do it. If we were to take any territory, it'd just make the Mexicans closer and put more of them over the border.

Are we going to put in the peace treaty, "Don't send Mexicans to the US"?. Because according to you, that's been part of the treaty for 150 years and it hasn't worked.

I got it! We'll start a war with Mexico, lose, and the international laughingstock we become will cause Mexicans to go away out of shame of living here!

[Mal_Reynolds]

I'm just someone who's had enough of being sold out. You don't like my opinion? Fine. Are you arguing the fact I put forward, though? When Mexican Army regulars are assisting their civilians in breaching our border, their government's actions put it in breach of the Treaty of Hidalgo, which was the treaty that ended hostilities in the War of 1848. Since their actions put them in breach of the treaty, the other party to the treaty -- that's us -- has every reason to resume military action.

Well that's nice.

Now, explain what we gain out of war with Mexico. Will it stop Mexican immigration? Are we going to kill every single goddamn Mexican to make it stop?

It might stop Mexican invasion, yes. Immigration is not what illegals are doing. Immigration is legal, invasion isn't. And no, we're not going to kill "every single goddamn Mexican". My suggestion is we implant illegals with RFID before deporting them. They come back tagged, or with surgical scars from having the tags removed, we tag 'em the second time with bullets.

We sure as hell can't win a war against Mexico to do it.

Really? Funny how I missed the meeting where their military is better-armed or better-trained than ours.

If we were to take any territory, it'd just make the Mexicans closer and put more of them over the border.

We don't need to take territory, we need to take territory back. The southwestern U.S., to be specific.

Are we going to put in the peace treaty, "Don't send Mexicans to the US"?. Because according to you, that's been part of the treaty for 150 years and it hasn't worked.

No, we're going to put in the treaty, "Stop violating the sovereignty of our country by using your military to help your civilians illegally occupy it."

I got it! We'll start a war with Mexico, lose, and the international laughingstock we become will cause Mexicans to go away out of shame of living here!

What the hell makes you think we'll lose? Put down the glass pipe and step away from the keyboard.

[Duckie]

It might stop Mexican invasion, yes. Immigration is not what illegals are doing. Immigration is legal, invasion isn't. And no, we're not going to kill "every single goddamn Mexican". My suggestion is we implant illegals with RFID before deporting them. They come back tagged, or with surgical scars from having the tags removed, we tag 'em the second time with bullets.

And you believe this mass deportation and then execution of illegal immigrants to be a valid solution? Or are you perhaps debating from the April Fools perspective, with stress on the latter word?

Really? Funny how I missed the meeting where their military is better-armed or better-trained than ours.

It doesn't matter how much better our military is if we go to war against Mexico over illegal immigration. Mexican illegals aren't the Mexican Army, dumbass. Defeating the Mexican Army won't do shit to the Mexican civilians who will still be crossing the border.

need to take territory back. The southwestern U.S., to be specific.

We don't need to go to war to deport illegal immigrants. Mexico isn't occupying the Mexican Cessetion and Texas right now, we could deport all the illegals (albeit at a huge cost) with no war whatsoever.

I had assumed your vestigal forebrain had told you that and thus interpreted your use of the word war to mean that we would actually be attacking or perhaps even entering Mexico. I am sorry for my error.

No, we're going to put in the treaty, "Stop violating the sovereignty of our country by using your military to help your civilians illegally occupy it."

That's what I said. You said yourself that the Mexicans have been violating the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo like that for 150 years. Will beating them in a war stop them from coming over because we wrote it down on paper?

What the hell makes you think we'll lose? Put down the glass pipe and step away from the keyboard.

We'll lose because we can't complete your pie-in-the-sky goal and thus win a War on Illegal Immigration through military firepower, short of MKSheppard's Million Mine Border.

[Duckie]

Ghetto Edit-

I noticed something that makes sense now.

When I sarcastically suggested we "lose and cause Mexicans to leave out of shame", I was suggesting we purposefully lose a war against Mexico (IIRC it would be Mexico's first victory in a war, too). I wasn't actually suggesting Mexico could beat the US. Which is naturally ludicrous.

[Wicked Pilot]

Deport them all to Canada I say. Kick out all the frenchies and make Quebec spanish speaking.

[Elfdart]

I'm just someone who's had enough of being sold out. You don't like my opinion? Fine. Are you arguing the fact I put forward, though? When Mexican Army regulars are assisting their civilians in breaching our border,

Any evidence for this that doesn't come from Stormfront-type websites?

their government's actions put it in breach of the Treaty of Hidalgo, which was the treaty that ended hostilities in the War of 1848. Since their actions put them in breach of the treaty, the other party to the treaty -- that's us -- has every reason to resume military action.

I see someone was playing with his pecker during History and Civics classes.