Would You Consider Owning A Gun?

Zor · Post by **Zor** » 2006-02-12 12:36pm

I'm rather pro gun control, although i can see some consessions for hunting and such as being acceptable.

Zor

Gunhead · Post by **Gunhead** » 2006-02-12 12:47pm

I don't really own my gun but since I'm such nice guy this man in fatigues let me sign for a RK-62 I get to call my own... Or maybe it's because I'm a go happy trooper in the FDF.

I'm considering getting few guns in the future, as soon as I can afford it.

-Gunhead

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2006-02-12 12:48pm

AMX wrote:
Darth Wong wrote:I don't see why anybody should have a handgun,...
Because they are nicely small and compact?
Easy to use in tight areas or even in a struggle?
Can be carried around in a holster without being much of a nuisance?

And is the preferred weapon of idiots who engage in drunken shootouts at nightclubs because it can be easily concealed, hence carried around everywhere. Yippee! Obviously you were too fucking stupid to understand my reservations about handguns without me having to spell them out for you.

...but I do see why people might want to have rifles or shotguns. On the "self defense" issue, I prefer the rule of law over anarchy, which is what the "arm ourselves" approach represents as social policy.
False dilemma.
"Arm ourselves", as you call it, is meant to complement the rule of law - the weapon is already there when/if a crime happens, while police would first have to make their way there - which can take surprisingly long sometimes (I remember a couple cops taking almost a full hour to move three blocks, on a day with almost zero traffic; granted, it was no emergency, but they left the station immediately after me, and arrived 45 minutes later than me).
Would-be criminals should not be able to think "Gee, the cops need at least X minutes to get here, so nothing can go wrong if I just hurry up a bit".

Don't throw out fallacy names without understanding them. If everybody walks around with guns, that does weaken the rule of law whether you admit it or not, unless you incorporate the unstated and easily falsified premise that all the citizens are responsible.

No offence, but, are you drunk?

No offense, but are you a fucking idiot?

There's no reason in hell you'd want to store gun and ammo separately (except for retarded laws in some countries), provided they are locked up securely, or under direct control.

Yeah, I guess some people have never heard of "defense in depth" as a safety policy.

Flagg · Post by **Flagg** » 2006-02-12 12:54pm

I got my 12 gauge right before the first Hurricane to hit my area back in '04. I think it was Francis. Basically we knew it was going to hit us, and we knew it was going to be pretty strong so I went ahead and got the shotgun for protection. Most people who lived in Florida during and after Andrew remember the total clusterfuck that took place afterwards and I was worried about looting, but more importantly packs of dogs. Luckily I didn't need to use it for that Hurricane, or the 2 we've had since, but I sure as hell felt more secure in the days after Francis and Jean when we had no power, the entire neighborhood was pitch black, and I had that fucker sitting right next to my bed.

The handgun I ordered is mainly for target practice at the shooting range with my friends. Though I'm planning on driving across the country to Seattle later this year and I'll definately feel better about it with some protection.

Glocksman · Post by **Glocksman** » 2006-02-12 01:00pm

If everybody walks around with guns, that does weaken the rule of law whether you admit it or not, unless you incorporate the unstated and easily falsified premise that all the citizens are responsible.

I agree, as a quick look at a police blotter will prove that all citizens aren't responsible and that everybody shouldn't have them.
The dilemma is how do you restrict criminals' access to firearms, especially handguns, without unduly restricting the right* of the citizens to do so?

*The right doesn't exist in Canada AFAIK, but it does exist in the US under both the Federal and many state constitutions.

Edited for clarity.

AMX · Post by **AMX** » 2006-02-12 01:05pm

Broomstick wrote:
AMX wrote:There's no reason in hell you'd want to store gun and ammo separately (except for retarded laws in some countries), provided they are locked up securely, or under direct control.
Small children.

Are not supposed to get their hands on the gun anyway.

I'm sure Mike does not want to experience what one of my police officer uncles did - waking up from an afternoon nap to find a four-year-old pointing a real handgun right between his eyes, giggling and saying "Bang! Bang!"

Fortunately, the kid hadn't figured out where the trigger was.

Interesting.
Apparently he forgot to either lock away the gun, or lock the child out of the room.
Either should've prevented the incident.

"Locked up securely" might, indeed, include storing gun and ammo separately. Some children are quite adept at getting into trouble.

Adept enough to crack a gunsave?
I doubt that, honestly.

Locking up guns and ammo separately means that's two security systems they have to defeat, not just one.

And?
The typical "security system", in this case, is a lock, which requires a key - and usually, the keys for both "systems" are to be found in the same place (the owner's pocket).
No extra difficulty in "defeating" two locks, except for trying out which key is which.

If someone feels storing guns and ammo separately increases security I wouldn't call the practice "retarded" regardless of whether I agreed with it or not.

Making it mandatory for everyone, including people who live alone, is retarded, however.

Darth Wong wrote:And is the preferred weapon of idiots who engage in drunken shootouts at nightclubs because it can be easily concealed, hence carried around everywhere. Yippee! Obviously you were too fucking stupid to understand my reservations about handguns without me having to spell them out for you.

Reason why certain people should not have a handgun =/= no reason for anybody to have a handgun.
Try again, if you must.

Don't throw out fallacy names without understanding them. If everybody walks around with guns, that does weaken the rule of law whether you admit it or not, unless you incorporate the unstated and easily falsified premise that all the citizens are responsible.

Did I say anywhere that everybody should be armed?

No offense, but are you a fucking idiot?

Sometimes, although I didn't get to fuck often enough lately.

Yeah, I guess some people have never heard of "defense in depth" as a safety policy.

The added depth, in this case, is pretty much insignificant.

Big Phil · Post by **Big Phil** » 2006-02-12 01:07pm

There's just something satisfying about putting a rifle to your shoulder and pulling the trigger. I have a refurbished M-14 and a Garand. No pistols.

I envy WWII riflemen; that Garand is just a great weapon.

Glocksman · Post by **Glocksman** » 2006-02-12 01:16pm

And to answer the poll, I wouldn't dream of owning such barbaric devices...

But seriously, I collect guns for several reasons.

1. Self defense.
Even though I'm licensed to carry a concealed weapon, I very rarely do so. Still it's nice to have the option should I decide I need to.
That, and my CCW exempts me from the state imposed 7 day waiting period & background check (though the dealer still has to run the Federal instant Brady check).

2. Shooting is fun.
Sorry, but I can't explain this one in words.

3. Historical value.
I have a Federal Curio & Relic collectors' license and several of my pieces are C&R weapons.
Many of my long guns and a couple of my pistols are ComBloc surplus and I wonder just what kind of use they saw, especially my WW2 M38 and M44 Soviet carbines.
My Manurhin Walther PP clone is an ex-Austrian Justice Department gun.

All I can say after reading about the hassle many of you in states like New York go through is that you have my sympathies.

Flagg · Post by **Flagg** » 2006-02-12 01:18pm

SancheztheWhaler wrote: I envy WWII riflemen; that Garand is just a great weapon.

I've heard that. It's definately a rifle I'd love to own and take shooting.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2006-02-12 01:19pm

We have about fifty guns, although I don't personally own any of them technically, but Uts has his own rifle.

AMX · Post by **AMX** » 2006-02-12 01:22pm

SancheztheWhaler wrote:I envy WWII riflemen; that Garand is just a great weapon.

You might want to rephrase that; I'm a fan of the Mannlicher M95, but I certainly wouldn't want to go back and face the Italians on the Monte Pasubio...

Glocksman · Post by **Glocksman** » 2006-02-12 01:32pm

Flagg wrote:I got my 12 gauge right before the first Hurricane to hit my area back in '04. I think it was Francis. Basically we knew it was going to hit us, and we knew it was going to be pretty strong so I went ahead and got the shotgun for protection. Most people who lived in Florida during and after Andrew remember the total clusterfuck that took place afterwards and I was worried about looting, but more importantly packs of dogs. Luckily I didn't need to use it for that Hurricane, or the 2 we've had since, but I sure as hell felt more secure in the days after Francis and Jean when we had no power, the entire neighborhood was pitch black, and I had that fucker sitting right next to my bed.

The handgun I ordered is mainly for target practice at the shooting range with my friends. Though I'm planning on driving across the country to Seattle later this year and I'll definately feel better about it with some protection.

For Christ's sake, check the laws of each state you plan on driving through. Packing.org is a good place to start.
Even though the Federal FOPA in theory protects you if you keep the gun unloaded, cased & locked, locked in the trunk, and the ammo separate from the gun, many jurisdictions will lock you up anyway.
Sure, you'll win in the end but who wants to put a lawyer's kid through Harvard?

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2006-02-12 01:39pm

Sure. I would consider owning a firearm.

Flagg · Post by **Flagg** » 2006-02-12 01:44pm

Glocksman wrote:
Flagg wrote:I got my 12 gauge right before the first Hurricane to hit my area back in '04. I think it was Francis. Basically we knew it was going to hit us, and we knew it was going to be pretty strong so I went ahead and got the shotgun for protection. Most people who lived in Florida during and after Andrew remember the total clusterfuck that took place afterwards and I was worried about looting, but more importantly packs of dogs. Luckily I didn't need to use it for that Hurricane, or the 2 we've had since, but I sure as hell felt more secure in the days after Francis and Jean when we had no power, the entire neighborhood was pitch black, and I had that fucker sitting right next to my bed.

The handgun I ordered is mainly for target practice at the shooting range with my friends. Though I'm planning on driving across the country to Seattle later this year and I'll definately feel better about it with some protection.
For Christ's sake, check the laws of each state you plan on driving through. Packing.org is a good place to start.
Even though the Federal FOPA in theory protects you if you keep the gun unloaded, cased & locked, locked in the trunk, and the ammo separate from the gun, many jurisdictions will lock you up anyway.
Sure, you'll win in the end but who wants to put a lawyer's kid through Harvard?

Oh, I plan on it. Usually if you secure it like you said, and are up front with the police if you are stopped you won't have a problem. Usually.

Glocksman · Post by **Glocksman** » 2006-02-12 01:53pm

From looking at the Florida reciprocity map at Packing.org, it looks like you can carry the gun concealed all the way to Washington State if you have a Florida CCW and avoid going through Kansas and Nebraska and put it in the trunk unloaded before you cross into Washington itself.

Shinova · Post by **Shinova** » 2006-02-12 02:08pm

We have a couple of shotguns, and a rifle. We also have a .22 pistol, but it kinda sucks and jams easily.

Shotguns are loads of fun to target shoot with. Nothing quite like blowing stuff up with it.

Yogi · Post by **Yogi** » 2006-02-12 02:29pm

For self defense, a tazer or pepper spray will work, and are non-lethal. Sure they have a short range, but your average joe won't be hitting things at long range anyway.

YT300000 · Post by **YT300000** » 2006-02-12 02:40pm

I don't own any firearms at the present time, but shortly will. Shooting is a fun hobby, and though I'm not really into hunting myself, I can understand why others are.

More important than fun however, is self-defense. You hear many people say that handguns are the preferred weapon of criminals, and should be banned. Minor problem there. Being criminals, they won't turn their weapons in. End result? They're armed, and their prey is not, so they simply become bolder, Chicago being a classic example of that. I even know someone there who got caught in the middle of a random drive-by shooting - not coincidentally in a city with a handgun ban. Now, if simply passing a ban would magically make every criminal in the world turn their firearms in, I'd willingly give up my right (heavily restricted in Canada, but still hanging on by the fingertips) to own any.

With the proper application of training and safety principles, a firearm is far less dangerous than a car. It also gives you the ability to defend yourself, rather than place your life at the whim of your assailant.

The Dark · Post by **The Dark** » 2006-02-12 03:05pm

I would consider owning one eventually. Right now, between an injured wrist and lack of time, I wouldn't be able to learn to shoot properly, which I would definitely want training on. My father still has his old .357 somewhere in the house, left over from when he worked private security, but I have no idea where it is (and we don't have ammunition for it at the moment for safety reasons...we still need a gunsmith to make sure it's safe to use). I'd prefer a rifle for utility purposes, since there's some decent game nearby if I can acquire a license, but a handgun would be useful also for dealing with some of the feral dogs in the area (kinda reminds me of the old British velo-dog revolvers designed specifically for use by bicyclists to shoot dogs, but I digress).

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2006-02-12 03:10pm

Want to, can't for obvious reasons. One of these days I shall build up an arsenal of belt fed machineguns though; followed by .50 AE Desert eagles

Solauren · Post by **Solauren** » 2006-02-12 03:18pm

Don't own one, like having the option there.

I'd prefer a laser sighted hunting crossbow however.

YT300000 · Post by **YT300000** » 2006-02-12 03:24pm

Missed this post on the first time through.

Yogi wrote:For self defense, a tazer or pepper spray will work, and are non-lethal. Sure they have a short range, but your average joe won't be hitting things at long range anyway.

A common misconception. With minimal training (often less than 20 rounds), you can point shoot out to 15 metres with very good accuracy. Fairbairn's training guide in Shooting to Live outlines this very nicely. This is more than adequate for just about any situation you can expect to be in.

As for the non-lethal substitutes, they are certainly far better than nothing, but not as useful as you might think. Pepper spray is useless if there's a wind in any direction but straight at your assailant, won't even work on some people, has a range of less than 5 metres (the smallest concern here, but still a consideration), and is actually illegal in many places where you can carry concealed handguns. Tazers are even trickier. They won't work through thick clothing, may not immediately incapacitate your assailant (giving them time to use their weapon against you), and if they have any sort of heart problem or other physiological imbalance, it may kill them, which nullifies the point of using it. But the main concern is that it doesn't have any real guarantee of stopping them.

With both of these weapons, there is also the concern that they aren't useful against multiple attackers (tazer wires have to remain attached to continue zapping, pepper spray canisters don't hold much of the stuff), which with the increases in gang violence in recent years is a potential problem.

Einhander Sn0m4n · Post by **Einhander Sn0m4n** » 2006-02-12 04:00pm

For Home Defense, I'd most like a short-barreled (16.5" to comply with BATF) carbine, most likely an AK variant, in a pretty good caliber such as 7.62x39, loaded with some form of hollowpoint bullet designed for deer hunting (logic states that deer and burglars have essentially the same mass). Likely this would be supplemented with a 12ga Slug Shotgun with 18.5" barrel.

Dave wants a .357 snubnose revolver for CCW.

Fortunately for our nonexistent weapons budget, San Antonio is by far a safer city than New Orleans ever was...

felineki · Post by **felineki** » 2006-02-12 04:07pm

No. I don't want to have anything to do with them. If other people want them, that's fine... more power to them. Just be responsible with them and keep them the hell away from me.

FSTargetDrone · Post by **FSTargetDrone** » 2006-02-12 04:10pm

As target drones do not generally fire back, I see no reason to have a firearm of any kind in the house. Too much can go wrong for me to feel comfortable with it. Yes, yes, gunsafes, home protection whatnot... kids in the house are more resourceful than you think and items they aren't supposed to touch are instantly more appealing to them. No thanks.

That said, I would enjoy getting into some kind of target (!) shooting. It's been nearly 20 years since I last fired a rifle, some kind of .22 at a scout summer camp. It was enjoyable, but I'm also not exactly burning with desire to do it anytime soon.

I do enjoy looking at weapons, though.

Bang-bang.

Edited cuz I felt like it.

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