E. E. "Doc" Smith's Lensman data

[consequences]

I am quoting figures from Children of the Lens. End of discussion.

[Currald]

You were paraphrasing Children of the Lens. Which doesn't mean that I disagree with the substance of your statements.

Galactic Patrol p. 1

This monumental pile was Wentworth Hall, in which the Tellurian candidates for the Lens of the Galactic Patrol live and move and have their being.

The 100 from Wentworth Hall were Tellurians, not from all over the galaxy.

[consequences]

I said I was quoting the figures, not the exact wording, what was it, a "hundred thousand million suns" or something like that? Since it means a hundred billion anyway, the figure is the same, a number starkly incomprehensible to any human mind.

[Currald]

Okay, here are some more calcs on primary beam yields. What if the missiles and shells described in GURPS Lensman are fission bombs? The shells ar Tech Stage 0, and I see that fission bombs are TS0, so it seems reasonable. I poked around for a few minutes on Google to find stats on a fission bomb that was approximately 1 ton in weight (the weight of the 100 firepower shell in GURPS). I found the B-83 1-2 megaton class weapon weighing 2,400 lbs. So assume 1.5 megatons yield = 2,400 lbs. weight. So a 1 ton bomb would yield 1.25 megatons. Since no more than half of the yield could e applied effectively to a target in space, we'll say that 0.625 megatons = 100 firepower. A single shot from the Dauntless's primary beam projectors is 200,000 firepower, so that comes out to 1.25 gigatons, well over the 20 megaton minimum threshold established by the fact that the Q-gun's 20 megaton bomb cannot puncture a q-type helix while the primary beam can.

Can everybody live with these (rather approximate, I admit) calculations? Is there anything I left out?

[Darth_Shinji]

I'm sorry Currad, while your effort is admireable, I have lost all hope in gurps firepower providing a basis for Lensman weapons. According to calcs I've made based of gurps traveler, that atomic bomb is a hella of alot weaker than 5 TONS OF TNT! Its hopeless, they make numbers that do not make sense.

Of course I might be wrong, so please check, according to traveler (these are not the exact numbers, they are rounded becuase I couldn't remember the numbers and was going to check them later.) 500,000 mega joules=400 firepower.

Heres something that could be scary, its stated that dudec bombs can't destroy
a Q-type and a primary can. Well There is a class of Doudec bomb that can "dirsupt" and "kill" worlds. Assuming that these bombs are in a range of power as the Helmuths world affair so that we can guage that as the power range of these weapons.... Are primarys more powerful than these Duedec bombs?

[Currald]

I'm sorry Currad, while your effort is admireable, I have lost all hope in gurps firepower providing a basis for Lensman weapons. According to calcs I've made based of gurps traveler, that atomic bomb is a hella of alot weaker than 5 TONS OF TNT! Its hopeless, they make numbers that do not make sense.

I think that the "firepower" figures may not be compatable from GURPS Lensman to other GURPS games. I'll take a look at GURPS Traveller though. I really doubt that we should try to included information from other GURPS sources that are not directly cited in GURPS Lensman, though. That way lies madness.

Of course I might be wrong, so please check, according to traveler (these are not the exact numbers, they are rounded becuase I couldn't remember the numbers and was going to check them later.) 500,000 mega joules=400 firepower.

This obviously leads us to an unacceptably low figure for GURPS Lensman firepower. There are certain facts which cannot be contradicted, especially by something so irrelevent as GURPS Traveller. I take it that Traveller uses the Space Opera Combat System described in GURPS Lensman?

Heres something that could be scary, its stated that dudec bombs can't destroy
a Q-type and a primary can. Well There is a class of Doudec bomb that can "dirsupt" and "kill" worlds. Assuming that these bombs are in a range of power as the Helmuths world affair so that we can guage that as the power range of these weapons.... Are primarys more powerful than these Duedec bombs?

I assume that the duodec bombs used to disrupt worlds are much bigger than the ones fired by the Britannia. It is clearly stated that the Britannia's shells are loaded with 20 metric tons of duodec. GURPS Lensman says that duodec is 1,000,000 times more explosive than TNT. Hence the yield of the Britannia's bombs is 22.05 megatons. Obviously the Q-type helix can contain this blast, since it does, but a larger bomb would obviously be harder or impossible to contain. I wouldn't worry about the primaries being used as planet killers. I'm sure that they could be used for a BDZ-type attack, but dirigible planets and negaspheres are ever so much more elegant, don't you think?

Anyway, in conclusion, I'd say that using real-world "stats" of an actual fission bomb and applying them in a common-sense way to the game stats is a valid approach, particularly if it happens to fit in with the established data from elsewhere in the books. Using potentially arbitrary information from a different but compatible game which fails to fit with the established facts is an invalid approach. Only theories which fit the facts need be considered, and every such theory must be considered.

Just for fun, I calculated the Dauntless's Macro Beam strength based on my previous Primary calcs. I calculated a 0.60 second beam (since that's how long the Primaries fire for) and came up with 18.75 megatons, which puts the Macros well below the level necessary to puncture the Q-type helix, since the Q-gun couldn't do it, and I'm sure that the duodec exploded a hell of a lot faster than 0.60 seconds, considering the explosion propagates at the speed of light!

So, I am putting a call-out for data on fission bombs weighing around 1 ton, so we can get more experimental data. I need the weight of the entire device, and the yield in megatons (or kilotons, or whatever). The more data we have, the more acurrate we can make these figures, assuming that my colleagues think that my formulae and methodology are acceptable.

[Darth_Shinji]

Your right about Traveler, I just wanted to point out that firepower isn't based on any system thats though out by the creators.

I assume that the duodec bombs used to disrupt worlds are much bigger than the ones fired by the Britannia. It is clearly stated that the Britannia's shells are loaded with 20 metric tons of duodec. GURPS Lensman says that duodec is 1,000,000 times more explosive than TNT. Hence the yield of the Britannia's bombs is 22.05 megatons. Obviously the Q-type helix can contain this blast, since it does, but a larger bomb would obviously be harder or impossible to contain. I wouldn't worry about the primaries being used as planet killers. I'm sure that they could be used for a BDZ-type attack, but dirigible planets and negaspheres are ever so much more elegant, don't you think?

While nagaspheres and planets are better its also a matter of power. And yes a Q-type can withstand the planet killing bombs. They can also be placed in the heart of stars. This says wonders about the power of a primary.

And I'm starting to doubt that Doedec is only 1 million times stronger than tnt. With that ratio those planet killing missles would prob be bigger than superdreadnoughts and no indication of that. Do you remember which book has kim starting an earthquake with Duedec?

Anyway, in conclusion, I'd say that using real-world "stats" of an actual fission bomb and applying them in a common-sense way to the game stats is a valid approach, particularly if it happens to fit in with the established data from elsewhere in the books. Using potentially arbitrary information from a different but compatible game which fails to fit with the established facts is an invalid approach. Only theories which fit the facts need be considered, and every such theory must be considered.

It was mearly evidence that the numbers were made up with no consideration for actual strength. Not a true calc of lensman.

So, I am putting a call-out for data on fission bombs weighing around 1 ton, so we can get more experimental data. I need the weight of the entire device, and the yield in megatons (or kilotons, or whatever). The more data we have, the more acurrate we can make these figures, assuming that my colleagues think that my formulae and methodology are acceptable.

A webpage I’ve found stats that true fission weapons can’t go past 500kt. And these atomics have already shown well past that in strength. Not to mention that I find weight=yield to be inaccurate. I’ve never heard that that is possible. Your basicaly stating that lensman nukes equal modern nukes. Which is not neccaly true.

[consequences]

Galactic Patrol would be the time Kim started an earthquake with duodec, to wipe out the Wheelmen base on his second attempt if I remember correctly. However, an earthquake is pretty unimpressive, you could set one off today with a couple pounds of the right type of explosive in the correct location.

[Currald]

Your right about Traveler, I just wanted to point out that firepower isn't based on any system thats though out by the creators.

While you're probably right, I am still forced to ask, on what do you base this assumption? I'm finding very few hard data points in the original novels.

While nagaspheres and planets are better its also a matter of power. And yes a Q-type can withstand the planet killing bombs. They can also be placed in the heart of stars.

Yow! Do you have a quote on that? That's hot stuff! It could be very instructive, since the interior conditions of a star are fairly well-known.

This says wonders about the power of a primary.

QX, ace.

And I'm starting to doubt that Doedec is only 1 million times stronger than tnt. With that ratio those planet killing missles would prob be bigger than superdreadnoughts and no indication of that.

IIRC they never completely blow up a planet a la Alderaan with duodec; they just seriously mess one up. Helmuth's base self-destructing at the beginning of Gray Lensman is the most spectacular application of duodec, and those were buried bombs, not missiles.

Do you remember which book has kim starting an earthquake with Duedec?

It was in Galactic Patrol, page 239, the denoument of the "Blakeslee affair:" Kinnison: "three lithium-hydride bombs placed where they'll do the most good..." Lithium hydride isn't detailed in GURPs Lensman, but it does exist in real life. It's water-reactive, but not particularly explosive. Of course, neither is urainium under ordinary circumstances, so who really knows what a "lithium hyrdride bomb" is.

It was mearly evidence that the numbers were made up with no consideration for actual strength. Not a true calc of lensman.

The thing is, how can you do a "true calc of lensman" when Doc didn't give us enough numbers to play with?

A webpage I’ve found stats that true fission weapons can’t go past 500kt.

Hmmm... The weapon stats I quoted may have been some sort of hybrid weapon or something. I know very little about nuclear weapons...

And these atomics have already shown well past that in strength.

When were they shown at all?

Not to mention that I find weight=yield to be inaccurate.

Yes, I suppose that was a leap that doesn't necessarily make sense. More data on bombs yields would lessen this problem.

I’ve never heard that that is possible. Your basicaly stating that lensman nukes equal modern nukes. Which is not neccaly true.

I considered that. I figured that the properties of a fission bomb are pretty much based on fundamental physical laws, so a fission bomb is a fission bomb. Plus, a civilization that can't cure polio until hundreds or thousands of year into the future might not have made any serious improvements in nukes. A lot of their technology is similar to ours. Hell, they don't even seem to have transistors yet!

Okay, I looked around a bit and found a nice quote here, Galactic Patrol page 15:

"...all the Brains agree that twenty tons of duodec, attaining a temperature of about forty million degrees absolute in less than one micro-second, simply cannot be confined."

In contrast, the center of the sun is only 15 million degrees Kelvin. Now there's a number you can sink your teeth into. Now, can we calculate a yield based on that? Or do we need to know the specific heat of duodecaplylatomate or sumthin'? Cause, like, the higher a material's specific heat, the more energy is required to raise a given amount of it a degree in temperature.

I guess I can just do a couple of test calcs based on Mr. Wong's examples of specific heats. I'll use hydrogen and iron, since they represent the upper and lower limits. Iron's specific heat comes out to 3.36E14 J (80 kilotons of TNT), and hydrogen's comes out to 1.136E16 J (2.7 megatons). Can anyone check my figures? 20 metric tons raised by 40,000,000 degrees K? I haven't done this since high school. Of course, temperature change may only be the tip of the iceberg; the explosive force could be considerably greater. Oh well, I better quit while I'm... uh... well, I better quit.

[Darth_Shinji]

While you're probably right, I am still forced to ask, on what do you base this assumption? I'm finding very few hard data points in the original novels.

Experience with rpg systems and evidence. While its true that there are not many points to check in the lensman novels.... should I make some calcs on real world weapons in gurps? Those traveler numbers come with damage dice numbers as well.

While nagaspheres and planets are better its also a matter of power. And yes a Q-type can withstand the planet killing bombs. They can also be placed in the heart of stars.

Yow! Do you have a quote on that? That's hot stuff! It could be very instructive, since the interior conditions of a star are fairly well-known.

pg 22 in Grey Lensman. During the explostion of Helmuths planet.

Its detonation pressure and temputure have never been measured sace indirectly, since nothing will hold it except a Q-type helix of pure force. And even those helices, which must be practillay open at both ends, have to be designed and powered to withstand pressures and temperatures obtaining only in the cores of suns.

QX, ace.

Whats QX stand for?

IIRC they never completely blow up a planet a la Alderaan with duodec; they just seriously mess one up. Helmuth's base self-destructing at the beginning of Gray Lensman is the most spectacular application of duodec, and those were buried bombs, not missiles.

They don't even have to be that powerful. With the given ratio a effect simaler to the dinosaur killer would wiegt thousands in not millions of tons. Prob the loosest defination of killing a planet I've ever heard since it wouldn't kill the planet. And this is in reference to a single bomb. And missles and bombs were both said to be able to wreak, dirupt, kill. All of which would be far bigger bombs than they were ever suggested being in size. (They are carriable.

The thing is, how can you do a "true calc of lensman" when Doc didn't give us enough numbers to play with?

Playing with numbers with Traveler... explicet numbers stated in a true crossover system that prides itself that everything is compatible.... I would get some oof the suckest real-life weapons you have ever seen.

And these atomics have already shown well past that in strength.

When were they shown at all? [/quote] Cuased an earthquake that sunk alatis and the Nevain city incident.

Not to mention that I find weight=yield to be inaccurate.

Yes, I suppose that was a leap that doesn't necessarily make sense. More data on bombs yields would lessen this problem.

I’ve never heard that that is possible. Your basicaly stating that lensman nukes equal modern nukes. Which is not neccaly true.

I considered that. I figured that the properties of a fission bomb are pretty much based on fundamental physical laws, so a fission bomb is a fission bomb. Plus, a civilization that can't cure polio until hundreds or thousands of year into the future might not have made any serious improvements in nukes. A lot of their technology is similar to ours. Hell, they don't even seem to have transistors yet! [/quote] True, but they have shown considerable advances in such many feilds also. Expecaly weapons. Atomics themselves were called superatomic bombs so we have no idea truly if they were plain old atomic bombs or not.

Okay, I looked around a bit and found a nice quote here, Galactic Patrol page 15:

"...all the Brains agree that twenty tons of duodec, attaining a temperature of about forty million degrees absolute in less than one micro-second, simply cannot be confined."

In contrast, the center of the sun is only 15 million degrees Kelvin. Now there's a number you can sink your teeth into. Now, can we calculate a yield based on that? Or do we need to know the specific heat of duodecaplylatomate or sumthin'? Cause, like, the higher a material's specific heat, the more energy is required to raise a given amount of it a degree in temperature. [/quote] I sincely wished I knew. I'm not to good on sceince math myself.

I guess I can just do a couple of test calcs based on Mr. Wong's examples of specific heats. I'll use hydrogen and iron, since they represent the upper and lower limits. Iron's specific heat comes out to 3.36E14 J (80 kilotons of TNT), and hydrogen's comes out to 1.136E16 J (2.7 megatons). Can anyone check my figures? 20 metric tons raised by 40,000,000 degrees K? I haven't done this since high school. Of course, temperature change may only be the tip of the iceberg; the explosive force could be considerably greater. Oh well, I better quit while I'm... uh... well, I better quit.[/quote] Luck to you.

[Currald]

They can also be placed in the heart of stars.

Yow! Do you have a quote on that? That's hot stuff! It could be very instructive, since the interior conditions of a star are fairly well-known.

pg 22 in Grey Lensman. During the explostion of Helmuths planet.

Its detonation pressure and temputure have never been measured sace indirectly, since nothing will hold it except a Q-type helix of pure force. And even those helices, which must be practillay open at both ends, have to be designed and powered to withstand pressures and temperatures obtaining only in the cores of suns.

[/quote]

It says that it can survive the temperature and pressure of the interior of Sirius B! That give us a pressure number (assuming I can determine the pressure of the interior of Sirius B, which will require a bit of research and culculation, I assume!).

QX, ace.

Whats QX stand for?

Your guess is as good as mine.

They don't even have to be that powerful. With the given ratio a effect simaler to the dinosaur killer would wiegt thousands in not millions of tons. Prob the loosest defination of killing a planet I've ever heard since it wouldn't kill the planet. And this is in reference to a single bomb. And missles and bombs were both said to be able to wreak, dirupt, kill. All of which would be far bigger bombs than they were ever suggested being in size. (They are carriable.

The asteroid that caused the K/T extinction was a purely kinetic kill effect. Though I suppose that at that level of energy explosives would be redundant.

The thing is, how can you do a "true calc of lensman" when Doc didn't give us enough numbers to play with?

Playing with numbers with Traveler... explicet numbers stated in a true crossover system that prides itself that everything is compatible.... I would get some oof the suckest real-life weapons you have ever seen.

[/i]GURPS Lensman[/i] was approved by the Smith estate. GURPS Traveller was not, and was written after GURPS Lensman. Plus I didn't see and reference to "Firepower" in the Traveller book, just MJ or MW or something.

And these atomics have already shown well past that in strength.

When were they shown at all?

Cuased an earthquake that sunk alatis and the Nevain city incident.

That was the "Special" bomb, which used the new allotropic iron technology, not a regular fission bomb.

True, but they have shown considerable advances in such many feilds also. Expecaly weapons. Atomics themselves were called superatomic bombs so we have no idea truly if they were plain old atomic bombs or not.

I think that "superatomic" refers to 100% matter to energy conversion.

Luck to you.

Thanks.

I'll try to get more quotes up soon. I'm been reading the books and putting bookmarks in, but I've spent a lot of computer time starting up my Lensman website, "Z9M9Z": http://www20.brinkster.com/pariahpress/ ... ensman.htm. It's just in the starting phases, but it should be of interest to, well, anyone reading this thread probably!

[Currald]

Sirius B stats:
Effective Temperature: (K) 24,790
Density: (kg/m3) 2,467,598,176

Pressure= density * temperature

pressure=61,171,758,783,040 N/m^2

Derrrrrrr... That gives me a force measure. Um, if I assume that the force is applied for 0.60 seconds, can I determine an energy measure? Is it possible that newtons are merely joules/second?

One more time: "Damned liberal arts education!" My ignorance is starting to apall me. This is grade 9 stuff, and I've forgotten it all!

[Currald]

Okay, based on our discussion here: http://www.trekbbs.com/threads/showflat ... o=&fpart=1 we figured out the energy from pressure (considerable) and heat (negligible) within Sirius B, per m^2 of Q-type helix. I took conservative measurements from the illustration on Gray Lensman page 53 to get a beam area of 25.652 m^2. So that gives us a lower limit of APPROXIMATELY 2.49 E19 tons TNT yield for primary beams. Thats 24.9 exotons!

[Hotfoot]

Okay, based on our discussion here: http://www.trekbbs.com/threads/showflat ... o=&fpart=1 we figured out the energy from pressure (considerable) and heat (negligible) within Sirius B, per m^2 of Q-type helix. I took conservative measurements from the illustration on Gray Lensman page 53 to get a beam area of 25.652 m^2. So that gives us a lower limit of APPROXIMATELY 2.49 E19 tons TNT yield for primary beams. Thats 24.9 exotons!

Gut reaction is that has to be wrong, or we're talking about Lensmen potentially surpassing Skylark weapons tech (well, Skylark Three, anyway...) in terms of raw firepower.

[Darth_Shinji]

Okay, based on our discussion here: http://www.trekbbs.com/threads/showflat ... o=&fpart=1 we figured out the energy from pressure (considerable) and heat (negligible) within Sirius B, per m^2 of Q-type helix. I took conservative measurements from the illustration on Gray Lensman page 53 to get a beam area of 25.652 m^2. So that gives us a lower limit of APPROXIMATELY 2.49 E19 tons TNT yield for primary beams. Thats 24.9 exotons!

Gut reaction is that has to be wrong, or we're talking about Lensmen potentially surpassing Skylark weapons tech (well, Skylark Three, anyway...) in terms of raw firepower.

Well, skylark three weapons and the zone of firepower from first lensman was described simarler (Lighting is a deadzone thing). Its possible. Just remember that most sheilds will not impend skylark weapons anyway.


And skylark three is so far behind the curve in tech by the end of that series it isn't funny.

[Hotfoot]

Gut reaction is that has to be wrong, or we're talking about Lensmen potentially surpassing Skylark weapons tech (well, Skylark Three, anyway...) in terms of raw firepower.

Well, skylark three weapons and the zone of firepower from first lensman was described simarler (Lighting is a deadzone thing). Its possible. Just remember that most sheilds will not impend skylark weapons anyway.


And skylark three is so far behind the curve in tech by the end of that series it isn't funny.

Well, by the end they were throwing around stars for ammo, granted, but there was little description as to the various projectors beyond those of the Skylark Three. Granted, the Skylark Three probably has Lensmen beat on range and effectiveness (5th Order would probably bypass the shields in Lensmen, though 6th Order is questionable because it's similiar to the power of the Lens) by several orders of magnitude, but still...

[Darth_Shinji]

Gut reaction is that has to be wrong, or we're talking about Lensmen potentially surpassing Skylark weapons tech (well, Skylark Three, anyway...) in terms of raw firepower.

Well, skylark three weapons and the zone of firepower from first lensman was described simarler (Lighting is a deadzone thing). Its possible. Just remember that most sheilds will not impend skylark weapons anyway.


And skylark three is so far behind the curve in tech by the end of that series it isn't funny.

Well, by the end they were throwing around stars for ammo, granted, but there was little description as to the various projectors beyond those of the Skylark Three. Granted, the Skylark Three probably has Lensmen beat on range and effectiveness (5th Order would probably bypass the shields in Lensmen, though 6th Order is questionable because it's similiar to the power of the Lens) by several orders of magnitude, but still...

True he never specifies how much stronger and father range they get but its implid. Look at the fenchrone/lurdis battle.

And I don't think 6th is very questionable. Remember thouth is one band of the 6th, Not all. And I guess that depends also if lens powers are 6th order stuff or no order stuff like the end of DQ.

[Currald]

Okay, based on our discussion here: http://www.trekbbs.com/threads/showflat ... o=&fpart=1 we figured out the energy from pressure (considerable) and heat (negligible) within Sirius B, per m^2 of Q-type helix. I took conservative measurements from the illustration on Gray Lensman page 53 to get a beam area of 25.652 m^2. So that gives us a lower limit of APPROXIMATELY 2.49 E19 tons TNT yield for primary beams. Thats 24.9 exotons!

Gut reaction is that has to be wrong, or we're talking about Lensmen potentially surpassing Skylark weapons tech (well, Skylark Three, anyway...) in terms of raw firepower.

Well, skylark three weapons and the zone of firepower from first lensman was described simarler (Lighting is a deadzone thing). Its possible. Just remember that most sheilds will not impend skylark weapons anyway.


And skylark three is so far behind the curve in tech by the end of that series it isn't funny.

Evidence points towards centuries passing between First Lensman and Galactic Patrol, so they may have had a considerable level of technological advancement in some areas.
I don't really have a problem with Lensman tech surpassing Skylark tech, but I think that may only be because I have only read the first Skylark book. Things certainly seem to leap ahead with each book, don't they? I'll have to read the others, especially S. Duquesne. I'm in the middle of Z-Lensman, Return of the King and Alan Moore's Supreme all at once, so Doc will have to wait a while.
Anyway, I was just gratified to find something quantifiable in the Q-type helix in the core of Sirius B thing, and then to find someone who knew the math involved. I was getting nervous using secondary sources to find the power levels, so to actually get something usable from Doc... well, I'm a happy man today, let me tell you. Finally some numbers that seem to justify Doc's colorful adjectives!

[Hotfoot]

Heh...here, I'll post the data I got from Skylark a while back, if you don't mind getting a few spoilers.

[consequences]

Just as a note, the primary described as being able to slice a q-type helix in half was only explicitly stated to be deployed on the supermaulers used by Civilisation to attack Boskonian dirigible planets in Second-Stage Lensmen. This beam was at least 30 times more focused than a standard Galactic Patrol Primary on a superdreadnought.

[Currald]

Kinnison is in the Dauntless in Gray Lensman page 57:

...eight of those indescribable primary beams lashed out; stillettoes of irresistibly pentrant energy which not even a Q-type helix could withstand.

Re: the "supermaulers" in Second Stage Lensmen page 28:

its dreadful primary was the first weapon ever developed capable of cutting a Q-type helix squarely in two.

Maybe cutting squarely in two is a bigger feat than merely penetrating.

[consequences]

Okay, definite point, however that means that the Galactic Patrol is capable of producing beams much more powerful than the simple penetrate a Q-type helix calcs would indicate. And thirty times the power was a conservative estimate, I think the actual line was to the effect of a fraction of a second.

[Darth_Shinji]

Almost undoubtly are maulers primaries more powerful than a superdreadnoughts. It is after all thier purpose to be mobile cannons, and that quote of the dauntless was also before medon generators were installed. In which the power system of the galatic patrol was supposed to be dramatically increased.

[Currald]

While Medonian power and conductivity technology may have improved some aspects of the ships' operations, limits in Civilization's other materials may have limited the effects of Medonian tech on primary beams. I seem to recall something about how a beam weapon can only be as "hot" as the emitting material is capable of handling. The scientists of the Patrol got around this to a certain extent by having the primary's emitter actually explode and vaporize within 0.60 seconds of firing. I don't know if Medonian tech could do anything to improve this.

[Currald]

I totally agree with y'all that the supermaulers are far more powerful than the Dauntless. I did some calculating based on the David Kyle trilogy (which I just finished slogging through) and I came up with a LOW END mass figure for the supermauler 727 times the mass of the Dauntless. Now I see why it takes so long to build those suckas! We know that they're very slow and unmaneuverable, so all of that mass must be devoted to power for weapons and screens.