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Crown wrote:

Colonel Olrik wrote:And you can also remind her that energy doesn't come in Watts.

Takes hat off to Pedro. You sir are an Engineer and a Gentleman.

Why thank you Stefanos

Seeing people butcher equations makes me sad.

Sad.

That's pretty much all I have to say about it right now.

Traviss wrote:Passion about fiction is great when it's fun and lighthearted, or when it provides respite or sheds light on real issues.

Hold up. The latter is true. We are now shedding light on how certain companies and their employees can betray their customers by sending them shit. We are being cheated. The only guys who are not complaining are those in ignorance. Understand that? Fradulent companies are a real issue!

But whatever you do, remember what's real and get het up about that.

Oh, let's not forget however much useful time we have wasted, all of it has one real culprit - you. If you had bothered to do your work correctly, we won't be wasting time and breath on this. So whatever blood there is is on your hands.

Ghost Rider wrote: Literally in fandom there are two two types when critizied. Those who fess up and say sorry and this. These make my cold, cold heart brighten with joy because they are so much a loser and whiny bitch they must insure that no one dislikes their work.

These folks make my cold, cold heart burn with rage, as they have to fuck with something I love to start going on like that.

This line from her blog deserves more scrutiny:

Traviss wrote:Passion about fiction is great when it's fun and lighthearted, or when it provides respite or sheds light on real issues.

Indeed, her preposterously sloppy work has revealed that she is obviously and malignantly ignorant of military troop strengths, logistics, and strategies in real life. She is promoting grossly false impressions of the way military organizations work, and hence she is helping to spread brainbugs among the general populace about how "elite" special-forces units can overcome enormous numerical disparities.

This is not a harmless brainbug. Its wide dissemination in fiction can plant the seeds of thought in people which end up being subconsciously applied in real-life. This widespread "uber-special-forces" meme may have been a contributor to the disastrous decision to try and pacify Somalia with a small group of a hundred elite US Army Rangers with Delta Force support in 1991. It may also have contributed to the disastrous Bush Administration belief that they could attempt a full-scale invasion and occupation of Iraq with a third of the recommended number of troops.

That is where Karen Traviss went wrong: not by failing to rigorously analyze Star Wars but by failing to pay attention to real-life, even with respect to important current events. Far from validating her position, a greater emphasis on real-life over fiction actually disproves it.

In the end, the difference between someone like Curtis Saxton and someone like Karen Traviss is not that Dr. Saxton is a hardcore "Star Wars geek", as some would put it, but that he is much more knowledgeable about real-life things like science and history than she is. I've communicated with the man on many issues and he is nothing if not well-informed about all manner of subjects, not just Star Wars.

Why do only Saxonites have to suffer this crap?

I've never seen such vitriol directed at someone who analyzed non-technical aspects of SW. I could argue forever that Luke should have married Callista, and I don't think Zahn or Denning would call me "the inquisition" over that.

Any idea why?

General_Soontir_Fel wrote:Why do only Saxonites have to suffer this crap?

I've never seen such vitriol directed at someone who analyzed non-technical aspects of SW. I could argue forever that Luke should have married Callista, and I don't think Zahn or Denning would call me "the inquisition" over that.

Any idea why?

Anti-intellectualism. Dr. Saxton is smarter, better-educated, and more well-informed than his critics, and this drives them crazy for the same reason that right-wing radio talk-show hosts rail against universities and intellectuals: brain envy. They take pride in being ignorant and doing sloppy work, because they view it as a protest against elitism.

The ironic thing is that people like this will rail against intellectuals all day long, but the moment you call them "stupid" or "ignorant", they will go "nucular" on you. Don't "misunderestimate" them.

Darth Wong wrote:This line from her blog deserves more scrutiny:

Traviss wrote:Passion about fiction is great when it's fun and lighthearted, or when it provides respite or sheds light on real issues.

Indeed, her preposterously sloppy work has revealed that she is obviously and malignantly ignorant of military troop strengths, logistics, and strategies in real life. She is promoting grossly false impressions of the way military organizations work, and hence she is helping to spread brainbugs among the general populace about how "elite" special-forces units can overcome enormous numerical disparities.

This is not a harmless brainbug. Its wide dissemination in fiction can plant the seeds of thought in people which end up being subconsciously applied in real-life. This widespread "uber-special-forces" meme may have been a contributor to the disastrous decision to try and pacify Somalia with a small group of a hundred elite US Army Rangers with Delta Force support in 1991. It may also have contributed to the disastrous Bush Administration belief that they could attempt a full-scale invasion and occupation of Iraq with a third of the recommended number of troops.

That is where Karen Traviss went wrong: not by failing to rigorously analyze Star Wars but by failing to pay attention to real-life, even with respect to important current events. Far from validating her position, a greater emphasis on real-life over fiction actually disproves it.

Oh, but Mike, she's a "real-life military expert," as I am consistently reminded when discussing her "work."

Master of Ossus wrote:Oh, but Mike, she's a "real-life military expert," as I am consistently reminded when discussing her "work."

Having a fetish for men in uniform does not make her a military expert.

Now I've been blacklisted by Traviss!! For what, I cannot say. I made few comments on her blog and deigned to have a private correspondence through E-mail (more consideration than most fan-boys give) and was extremely cordial and non-belligerent. Matbe she just wants to surround herself with yes-men, and block everyone with a different viewpoint from her.

If you've been blacklisted, care to post the email exchange that led up to it?

My response

More to the point; did my equations balance? You know what my maths is like...

Science as well, energy is measured in joules, not watts.

Now to the meat of it:

I'm one of the techie fans you complain about above. However, I didn't get all worked up. the numbers in your article didn't mesh, but so what? It put you in the same league as Tim Zahn: Numbers are all wrong, but the writing was so good it didn't matter, we just spackle the stuff later.

This blog changes that perception. This may not occur to you Karen, but a lot of us have been and are in those situations. I've just returned from a middle east deployment. Some of the folks who you talk with here and at TFN are struggling to make ends meet with the recession. I'm still waiting to hear word on a techie from Katrina, and another 3 from Rita.

Yet we still do this. Because it is a displacement activity. Focusing on and getting a bit of joy out of fandom can be the only thing that keeps you from breaking down in a really stressful situation. As a military expert, you should know that because its well known that that is how troops deal with things - displacement.

And now your response is to compare us to a bunch of blood thirsty psychotics (Inquisition), and Ryan's is to state we are shallow and fear introspection.

Well, you've lost my support for ignoring it, my respect as a professional, and me as a customer now. Which is too bad because I was looking forward to 000. I don’t expect you will loose any sleep over that, but I think the statement needs to be made – insult the customer, and some of them won’t buy your product.

I don't care if DM throws a fit, or I get blacklisted or whatever. I'm not an active poster over there or anything.

I already posted it here

I haven't replied to her yet, there's nothing in my or her tones which is hostile, and I don't believe I posted in her blog since that correspondance. She's just being a bitch. I'll be sure to inquire about that in my reply to her; that is, if she hasn't spammed me too. . .

The Original Nex wrote:I already posted it here

I haven't replied to her yet, there's nothing in my or her tones which is hostile, and I don't believe I posted in her blog since that correspondance. She's just being a bitch. I'll be sure to inquire about that in my reply to her; that is, if she hasn't spammed me too. . .

You mean she blacklisted you after her reply ... man that's cold.

Ender wrote:My response
<snip>

Wow. You know that bitch slap you just gave her is gonna leave a mark.

Crown wrote:

Ender wrote:My response
<snip>

Wow. You know that bitch slap you just gave her is gonna leave a mark.

I know, I'm relly proud of it: Polite, yet completely cold and dispassionate. Didn't bother to argue the point and sink to her level, just said that she was flat out wrong. And the fact that my work schedule has prevented me from being involved beyond a few snipes here adds to it all the more.

We should keep a stop time to see how long it's gonna be before Dark Moron deletes your entry though.

Crown wrote:We should keep a stop time to see how long it's gonna be before Dark Moron deletes your entry though.

Don't matter, authors still get the message emailed to them and making her listen and see exactly what she was doing is my goal.

DM can't stop the signal...

Indeed. Bravo Ender.

How the hell do the Star Wars boards keep operating, anyway? I couldn't stand the place in my short stint, and I wasn't even threatened with banning. I just left because the board format sucks, the place is filled with idiotic fanboys, and Dark Moose is way too fond of his power. The environment isn't one that I could see anyone wanting to stay in, yet people do.

The Original Nex wrote:Indeed. Bravo Ender.

Others are joining you Ender. Some one called Xessmithia just posted

...
I too will likely join Enderwastaken in boycotting Tripple Zero.

You might just start a trend well properly not but anyway.

PS sorry if Xessmithia is some on this board or you all new already,

DM wrote:Alright - this ends here and now. If someone makes a general concept about a TOPIC, or a CONCEPT, fine. But Karen Traviss is not attacking PEOPLE, she is commenting on a concept. One person has already been banned by an admin over this. Folks need to reel it in, and fast.

Because someone says something about a generality does NOT mean they are talking about YOU in particular. However, it's so easy to bring the fight back not to the generality, but to the person when it comes to us fans. George might say "I don't like milk". Does that mean that every milk producer should come to his doorstep and say "I think you're insulting me, and everyone I know." No. It's an opinion.


Admins are watching for this, and so am I. You're going to see an ugly e-rampage of moosery and locked accounts if I see any more in blogspace. Go to Blog Feedback if you want to comment like this about other people - be they VIP or no. Don't test me on this.

Huh, I figured the comment would get deleted. Of course, it still might.

One person has already been banned by an admin over this. Folks need to reel it in, and fast.

I just discovered that that person was me.
At the moment, I have few words to voice my feeling on the matter, but for now, this shall suffice:

That's so lame. Traviss says 'SW fans need to think about x and have a life'. You reply with 'Well, actually I'm a military professional and I think about x all the time.' So... DM says 'DON'T GET PERSONAL FREAKS'. Packed with bad analogies and all.

The best part is ... Traviss WAS using a generalisation. She WAS tarring all tech-minded fans with the same brush. DM's hypocrisy is starting to damage my calm.

Glimmervoid wrote:You might just start a trend well properly not but anyway.

PS sorry if Xessmithia is some on this board or you all new already,

I am Xessmithia, I'll probably get 000 from a library.

EDIT: Ender and mine's posts have been deleted. I'm guessing by DarkMoosehole.

EDIT 2: And I've been blocked from the blogs, Ender too if I read DM's post right.