The Culture

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2003-01-16 10:38am

Shrike wrote:Of course, the Xeelee's power comes from their sheer logistics base - they have, more or less, the entire universe to draw upon. 14 billion years of growth gets you a pretty damn big population. In any kind of stand up fight though, the Xeelee would get worked and then some, their ships simply have not demonstrated the ability to stand up to Culture warships in reaction speeds, ranges or in 'nifty shit' (effectors).

Aye, it proves that simple strength in numbers can still overwhelm somewhat technologically advanced races still.

Even the 4th and 5th Imperium could give Xeelee ships a run for their money, but ultimately when you can simply throw ships at a problem even with less than 1% success rate and win, it seems futile to oppose them. Not even counting time-travel.

Mr. Mister · Post by **Mr. Mister** » 2003-01-16 09:58pm

Forgive me for asking, but, what's supposed to be entertaining about the Culture? I haven't read any of the Culture books, but just the descriptions I've read here make the author sound like a hack and the books the wanking of the gullibly techno-philiac.

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2003-01-17 08:15am

Mr. Mister wrote:Forgive me for asking, but, what's supposed to be entertaining about the Culture? I haven't read any of the Culture books, but just the descriptions I've read here make the author sound like a hack and the books the wanking of the gullibly techno-philiac.

As usual someone reckons that because a single Culture craft can wipe the floor with the GE using an engine fart it must be a crap books series.

The books are excellent since they don't "wank" over whether their equivalent of Boba Fett can take on a droid or an ISD take on a Mon Cal. The stories are a little more inspired and deal with the people, the tech is just there as a background much like the aliens were in Signs.

Of course the Culture is more of a moderator of Vs. Debates being that not much can take it on other than supremely higher races. The fact that the Culture equivalent of the Enterprise has defence lasers with at east 300GT/s output makes debates kinda moot.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2003-01-17 09:14am

Mr. Mister wrote:Forgive me for asking, but, what's supposed to be entertaining about the Culture? I haven't read any of the Culture books, but just the descriptions I've read here make the author sound like a hack and the books the wanking of the gullibly techno-philiac.

To that all I can tell you is that you should read the books. I had that same reaction at first but after reading the books I was blown away. I'd reccommend Look to Windward, personally.

The books are well written character peices with some decent action scenes. The technology is simply incidentally uber, it's not some techowank. They're better than 90% of science fiction out there.

Shadowhawk · Post by **Shadowhawk** » 2003-01-17 02:23pm

As the Culture FAQ says (paraphrased): "Stories set in a sci-fi utopia are bound to be boring, so Culture novels are centered around Contact, the branch that deals with new species, and Special Circumstances, the intelligence/counter-intelligence group."

Pcm979 · Post by **Pcm979** » 2003-01-17 09:40pm

For those that think the Cultureverse is überwank listen to this:
The Star Wars universe could easily defeat most other sci-fi universes. An ISD (Imperiator-class Star Destroyer) has the ability to render a planet completely uninhabitable in an hour, and has light turbolasers in the 200 Gigaton range. They are easily capable of building and fully crewing a moon-sized battlestation (with the ability to destroy planets) in six months! Spacecraft capable of destroying stars with a single missile and surviving indefinately in the core of gas giants can-and have- been created, even in the Maw research station that was cut off from the rest of the universe for more then a decade. Even more amazing, a large number of individuals in this galaxy have "force powers", allowing them TK, precognition and the ability to read/take over other beings minds. These individuals have been known to compress multiple stars into black holes at will.

What was that about überwank tech?

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2003-01-17 09:50pm

Pcm979 wrote:For those that think the Cultureverse is überwank listen to this:
The Star Wars universe could easily defeat most other sci-fi universes. An ISD (Imperiator-class Star Destroyer) has the ability to render a planet completely uninhabitable in an hour, and has light turbolasers in the 200 Gigaton range. They are easily capable of building and fully crewing a moon-sized battlestation (with the ability to destroy planets) in six months! Spacecraft capable of destroying stars with a single missile and surviving indefinately in the core of gas giants can-and have- been created, even in the Maw research station that was cut off from the rest of the universe for more then a decade. Even more amazing, a large number of individuals in this galaxy have "force powers", allowing them TK, precognition and the ability to read/take over other beings minds. These individuals have been known to compress multiple stars into black holes at will.

What was that about überwank tech?

Heh, it's all relative.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2003-01-19 02:03am

This thread is for informative discussions of the Culture.

Pcm979 · Post by **Pcm979** » 2003-01-19 02:30am

Stormbringer wrote:This thread is for informative discussions of the Culture.

I was getting sick of every Culture thread having a "sounds überwank" post, and since this is a stickied thread, it saved me the trouble of posting it in allof the threads.

The Nomad · Post by **The Nomad** » 2003-01-19 06:56am

Pcm979 wrote:For those that think the Cultureverse is überwank listen to this:

I listen and answer.

The Star Wars universe could easily defeat most other sci-fi universes.

The Culture would ass-rape it.

An ISD (Imperiator-class Star Destroyer) has the ability to render a planet completely uninhabitable in an hour, and has light turbolasers in the 200 Gigaton range.

Using the sheer controlled power of its engines, a Culture GCU or ROU could as well. Using the Grid and Hyperespace, it could blast a world into oblivion ( Use of Weapons, Consider Phlebas ).

They are easily capable of building and fully crewing a moon-sized battlestation (with the ability to destroy planets) in six months!

The Culture can build Orbitals and perhaps even Spheres ( Dyson, of course - mentionned in Excession ). An Orbital is 3 million km in diameter at least, and has more surface than 20 planets ( A few notes about the Culture ). 14 000 Orbitals were lost during the Idiran-Culture war ( Consider Phlebas ). Many have populations in the tens of billions or more ( Look to Windward ) . System-class GSVs are 200 km in length and have a crew of 6 billion ( Consider Phlebas ).
53 planets were destroyed or rendered uninhabitable during the Idiran-Culture war ( Consider Phlebas ).

Spacecraft capable of destroying stars with a single missile and surviving indefinately in the core of gas giants can-and have- been created, even in the Maw research station that was cut off from the rest of the universe for more then a decade.

Surprisingly, a Culture module ( easily one the weakest "ships" capable of interstellar travel built by the Culture since the Idiran war ) can survive indefinitely within a gas giant as well ( Use of weapons ). 6 suns were destroyed during the Idiran-Culture war, including two, nearly instantaneously, in a single battle, the Twin Novae Battle. And that was standard equipment on Idiran battleships ( Look to Windward, Consider Phlebas )
Tell me what happened to the Suncrusher

? And who in the Galaxy could build them now, at will ?

Even more amazing, a large number of individuals in this galaxy have "force powers", allowing them TK, precognition and the ability to read/take over other beings minds. These individuals have been known to compress multiple stars into black holes at will.

What ? 20 000 Jedi, few of them nearly as powerful as Exar Kun or Yoda, and at best some hundreds of Sith ? A large number ?
Drones can use "TK" with their forcefields ( and Yoda could take lessons from them ) , have < millisec action/reaction times ( precog, what good is it when your ennemy's so much faster than you ), and since they're machines, they can't be mindtricked. OTOH they can perfectly effectorize a Jedi ( see Use of Weapons, for example ). The Guri/Luke incident seems to involve that a Jedi must know at least partially how a machine/droid does work to Force-disable it, thus no drone disabled ( even if I conceded that point, they wouldn't have the time to do it ).
And that's not tech eitherway.

What was that about überwank tech?

Pitiful

.
Don't fuck with the Culture

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2003-01-19 10:24am

The Nomad: You misunderstood Pcm979's post, he was not being derogatory to the Culture and Culture Vultures, he was actually helping us by making a point that SW is just as überwank in many places as the Culture and that anyone who says otherwise is obviously smoking the good shit and being a hypocrite.

Hell, even ST has a lot of stuff that is otherwise impossible for us to do anytime in the future if ever.

But you did bring up some other good points on Culture tech which cancels out the negativity.

The Nomad · Post by **The Nomad** » 2003-01-19 01:05pm

Admiral Valdemar wrote:The Nomad: You misunderstood Pcm979's post, he was not being derogatory to the Culture and Culture Vultures, he was actually helping us by making a point that SW is just as überwank in many places as the Culture and that anyone who says otherwise is obviously smoking the good shit and being a hypocrite.

Yups...

should stop smoking

then my apologies

Pcm979 · Post by **Pcm979** » 2003-01-19 08:18pm

The Nomad wrote:
Admiral Valdemar wrote:The Nomad: You misunderstood Pcm979's post, he was not being derogatory to the Culture and Culture Vultures, he was actually helping us by making a point that SW is just as überwank in many places as the Culture and that anyone who says otherwise is obviously smoking the good shit and being a hypocrite.
Yups... should stop smoking then my apologies

S'okay.

DocMoriartty · Post by **DocMoriartty** » 2003-01-22 09:53am

The Nomad wrote:
Pcm979 wrote:For those that think the Cultureverse is überwank listen to this:
I listen and answer.

The Star Wars universe could easily defeat most other sci-fi universes.
The Culture would ass-rape it.

An ISD (Imperiator-class Star Destroyer) has the ability to render a planet completely uninhabitable in an hour, and has light turbolasers in the 200 Gigaton range.
Using the sheer controlled power of its engines, a Culture GCU or ROU could as well. Using the Grid and Hyperespace, it could blast a world into oblivion ( Use of Weapons, Consider Phlebas ).

They are easily capable of building and fully crewing a moon-sized battlestation (with the ability to destroy planets) in six months!
The Culture can build Orbitals and perhaps even Spheres ( Dyson, of course - mentionned in Excession ). An Orbital is 3 million km in diameter at least, and has more surface than 20 planets ( A few notes about the Culture ). 14 000 Orbitals were lost during the Idiran-Culture war ( Consider Phlebas ). Many have populations in the tens of billions or more ( Look to Windward ) . System-class GSVs are 200 km in length and have a crew of 6 billion ( Consider Phlebas ).
53 planets were destroyed or rendered uninhabitable during the Idiran-Culture war ( Consider Phlebas ).

Spacecraft capable of destroying stars with a single missile and surviving indefinately in the core of gas giants can-and have- been created, even in the Maw research station that was cut off from the rest of the universe for more then a decade.

Surprisingly, a Culture module ( easily one the weakest "ships" capable of interstellar travel built by the Culture since the Idiran war ) can survive indefinitely within a gas giant as well ( Use of weapons ). 6 suns were destroyed during the Idiran-Culture war, including two, nearly instantaneously, in a single battle, the Twin Novae Battle. And that was standard equipment on Idiran battleships ( Look to Windward, Consider Phlebas )
Tell me what happened to the Suncrusher ? And who in the Galaxy could build them now, at will ?

Even more amazing, a large number of individuals in this galaxy have "force powers", allowing them TK, precognition and the ability to read/take over other beings minds. These individuals have been known to compress multiple stars into black holes at will.
What ? 20 000 Jedi, few of them nearly as powerful as Exar Kun or Yoda, and at best some hundreds of Sith ? A large number ?
Drones can use "TK" with their forcefields ( and Yoda could take lessons from them ) , have < millisec action/reaction times ( precog, what good is it when your ennemy's so much faster than you ), and since they're machines, they can't be mindtricked. OTOH they can perfectly effectorize a Jedi ( see Use of Weapons, for example ). The Guri/Luke incident seems to involve that a Jedi must know at least partially how a machine/droid does work to Force-disable it, thus no drone disabled ( even if I conceded that point, they wouldn't have the time to do it ).
And that's not tech eitherway.

What was that about überwank tech?
Pitiful .
Don't fuck with the Culture

Were you masturbating during that whole orgasmic type fest of yours?

Post by **NecronLord** » 2003-01-22 11:27am

*looks at rant*

Oh by the way. The culture has ringworlds as well.

Pcm979 · Post by **Pcm979** » 2003-01-22 08:59pm

Pcm979 wrote:
The Nomad wrote:
Admiral Valdemar wrote:The Nomad: You misunderstood Pcm979's post, he was not being derogatory to the Culture and Culture Vultures, he was actually helping us by making a point that SW is just as überwank in many places as the Culture and that anyone who says otherwise is obviously smoking the good shit and being a hypocrite.
Yups... should stop smoking then my apologies
S'okay.

P.S. Good job on scuppering my point.

kojikun · Post by **kojikun** » 2003-01-24 05:16pm

Oh by the way. The culture has ringworlds as well.

The entire culture would fit on a single orbital with a population density similar atleast to suburban US and at most to New York City or Tokyo.

CORUSCANT has a larger population the the culture. Theres no reason to have ringworlds, its fucking insane. A single ringworld has a surface area of roughly 2.92e14 square miles. Every person in the culture (assuming a total culture population of 0.5 Quadrillion) would have over half a square mile of open land to himself. Thats an INSANE amount of empty space.

And I'm fairly certain my number for population is good. In Excession there was mention of a few trillion as the culture population so 500 Trillion is a good estimate.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2003-01-24 05:21pm

kojikun wrote:
Oh by the way. The culture has ringworlds as well.
The entire culture would fit on a single orbital with a population density similar atleast to suburban US and at most to New York City or Tokyo.

CORUSCANT has a larger population the the culture. Theres no reason to have ringworlds, its fucking insane. A single ringworld has a surface area of roughly 2.92e14 square miles. Every person in the culture (assuming a total culture population of 0.5 Quadrillion) would have over half a square mile of open land to himself. Thats an INSANE amount of empty space.

And I'm fairly certain my number for population is good. In Excession there was mention of a few trillion as the culture population so 500 Trillion is a good estimate.

I'm not sure how accurate your population numbers are but the thing is The Culture can afford to build all those ringworlds, orbital, and ships simply because they want to. You have too realize just how massive their infastructure is. They can afford that kind of consturction easily and do it for no better than they want to.

XaLEv · Post by **XaLEv** » 2003-01-24 10:23pm

The population of the Culture, at it's highest, is only thirty trillion.

Vast though the Culture may be - thirty trillion people, scattered fairly evenly through the galaxy - it is thinly spread, exists for now solely in this one galaxy, and has only been around for an eyeblink, compared to the life of the universe.

http://www.cs.bris.ac.uk/~stefan/culture.html

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2003-01-25 01:44pm

The Culture is not called the ultimate sci-fi utopia for nothing, the sheer scale of their mobile empire is enormous. To have just half a mile to yourself would seem pitifully cramped in the Culture.

Besides, new members join all the time so best to have the space.

The Nomad · Post by **The Nomad** » 2003-01-25 05:04pm

Lol, in fact the largest part of an Orbital is occupied by natural constructs, oceans, forests... Culture's only cities are its GSVs.
Imagine that Culture's Rings and Spheres might be pure natural reserves... gives you a hint about their resources.

Companion Cube · Post by **Companion Cube** » 2003-02-03 02:16am

How long would it take the Culture to overwhelm the Imperium (Warhammer 40k)? I know the Culture would kick ass, but the sheer size and population base of the imperium might allow them to hold out for at least a few months.
Obviously, in combat, there's no question of who would win...

1. An Imperial Mars class battlecruiser is a few dozen kilometres long, and is fitted with incredibly anachronistic weaponry and technology (the ship's torpedos are reloaded using winches, for fucks sake.

2. A culture ROU can fight a battle at over a trillion times the speed of light.

3. A Imperial vessel's tracking systems are mainly optical (maybe psychic as well)

....I don't think it's necessary for me to go on...

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2003-02-03 05:49am

3rd Impact wrote:How long would it take the Culture to overwhelm the Imperium (Warhammer 40k)? I know the Culture would kick ass, but the sheer size and population base of the imperium might allow them to hold out for at least a few months.
Obviously, in combat, there's no question of who would win...

1. An Imperial Mars class battlecruiser is a few dozen kilometres long, and is fitted with incredibly anachronistic weaponry and technology (the ship's torpedos are reloaded using winches, for fucks sake.

2. A culture ROU can fight a battle at over a trillion times the speed of light.

3. A Imperial vessel's tracking systems are mainly optical (maybe psychic as well)

....I don't think it's necessary for me to go on...

It would take a while, but bar the size of the foe and the psychic and Chaos gods, I don't see too much problem should the Culture need to take action.

It would probably be subterfuge anyway from Special Circumstances.

Dahak · Post by **Dahak** » 2003-02-03 06:33am

Shrike wrote:Of course, the Xeelee's power comes from their sheer logistics base - they have, more or less, the entire universe to draw upon. 14 billion years of growth gets you a pretty damn big population. In any kind of stand up fight though, the Xeelee would get worked and then some, their ships simply have not demonstrated the ability to stand up to Culture warships in reaction speeds, ranges or in 'nifty shit' (effectors).

Well, for one, we have never seen a real fight in the whole universe. So we don't know what they can ultimately do if pressed.

As for nifty shit, I'd say the Xeelee, with their insane control of space-time itself and "disregard" for the natural laws we take for granted, have quite some of their own.

And given that they could just wipe out whole galaxies, why bother with ships at all?

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2003-02-03 03:41pm

Dahak wrote:
Shrike wrote:Of course, the Xeelee's power comes from their sheer logistics base - they have, more or less, the entire universe to draw upon. 14 billion years of growth gets you a pretty damn big population. In any kind of stand up fight though, the Xeelee would get worked and then some, their ships simply have not demonstrated the ability to stand up to Culture warships in reaction speeds, ranges or in 'nifty shit' (effectors).
Well, for one, we have never seen a real fight in the whole universe. So we don't know what they can ultimately do if pressed.

As for nifty shit, I'd say the Xeelee, with their insane control of space-time itself and "disregard" for the natural laws we take for granted, have quite some of their own.

And given that they could just wipe out whole galaxies, why bother with ships at all?

Be sure to wipe your dick after that lot.

*Goes back to wanking over Culture tech*