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Eleas wrote:It's surprisingly doable to make a seemingly invincible character work with "lesser" characters. My own fantasy char, Thizara, is for example untouchable in most cases. How do you kill someone who can jump bodies?

Yet my GM and I have been able to make it work. My character has this awesome killing power, but she's learned the most difficult lesson of all: to not use it unless she absolutely must. I think the key here is to give the Jedi characters challenges different from that of the mundanes. That may be different from what most groups seem to do, but it's borne out by what happens in most of the movies. And, I think, for good reason.

The yellow is interesting: how did she learn that important lesson?

As for what you said in the rest of the post: do you mean that if you throw a Dark Jedi at the party, it is really only a challenge the party's Jedi can handle? While everyone else goes about doing something crucial, the Jedi has to handle this thing alone? Or were you thinking of something more than that example? (which I based off of ANH)

Stofsk wrote: The yellow is interesting: how did she learn that important lesson?

Well, that's the part you won't be able to use unmodified on a Jedi, not as-is. Thizara's friend Eithene had been captured by a slimy marklord in the city of Marek Pomian. She entered the body of an animal to scout things out there. The first thing she saw was another of her friends, Dergan, being beaten into a pulp, his cranium burst open by a kick, etc. Basically, my little teen shamaness went slightly insane at that point. She entered the spirit plane again, descended upon one of the guards dragging Eithene down to the dungeon, and ripped his soul from his body.

Then she entered the vacant body, killed the other guard (I don't recall exactly how, I think she stabbed him), and tried to escape the castle. Problem is, she was cut off by guards. Then her friends came for Eithene, including some very skilled warriors. Basically, a general melee. And Thizara walked around in a daze, still wearing the guard's body, stabbing and being stabbed, always coming back, and dying a half-dozen times.

After that experience, she was pretty far gone. She'd retreated deep into her own mind, and soon after, IIRC, she fled the group.

Stofsk wrote:As for what you said in the rest of the post: do you mean that if you throw a Dark Jedi at the party, it is really only a challenge the party's Jedi can handle? While everyone else goes about doing something crucial, the Jedi has to handle this thing alone? Or were you thinking of something more than that example? (which I based off of ANH)

I mean that if you throw a Dark Jedi at the party, either the Jedi is given the task of defeating said Dark Jedi, or another will have to step up to the plate. Fighting a Dark Jedi in close combat with a non-Jedi character is not advisable, but who says you have to play to the Darksider's strengths?

To put it another way, I'd love to see a fight in which a random darksider played cat and mouse with Han Solo on an abandoned space station. And I wouldn't put my money on the darksider.

I find it irritating when people think that jedi always successfully parries a blaster bolt, because they do so in the movies that have character shields coming in throught the windows.
So I prefer systems that are bit on the lethal side. It forces players to think twice about getting into a fight, and makes running away from a bad situation a good option. There's of course no need to waste characters on a regular basis, maiming them and having their money spent on medical bills is usually enough.

Do you favor highly specific force powers or fewer and let creativity rule the day?
I prefer the latter. When forcing players to describe what they are trying to achieve, it makes them more active and encourages good roleplaying instead of rollplaying.

-Gunhead

Eleas:

To put it another way, I'd love to see a fight in which a random darksider played cat and mouse with Han Solo on an abandoned space station. And I wouldn't put my money on the darksider.

The bounty hunter in my group is by far the most dangerous character by the same reason.

Gunhead wrote:When forcing players to describe what they are trying to achieve, it makes them more active and encourages good roleplaying instead of rollplaying.

Here, here.

Imperial Overlord wrote: The bounty hunter in my group is by far the most dangerous character by the same reason.

Mmm. The sad fact of Ep 2 was that pure lightsaber battles do in fact grow boring when taken to an extreme. While a little ingenuity (and lots of explosives) never get old.

I concure.

Imperial Overlord wrote:I concure.

Just out of curiosity (and possibly derailing the thread), what would you say was the most difficult enemy that bounty hunter had to deal with?

Gunhead wrote:I find it irritating when people think that jedi always successfully parries a blaster bolt, because they do so in the movies that have character shields coming in throught the windows.

Balance aside, they will always do so barring exceptional circumstances such as being blindsided. It's not their skill that parries, it's done by giving one's self to the force. A good jedi would automatically pass any test to block blaster fire.

Incidentally, I'm happy to announce that I just got the core book for this for £10. It's the pre-AotC version though, and I couldn't find the Dark Side Sourcebook.

Well somebody insist to über powerfull jedi character, you can always use the method that was told in KOTOR2 "no blasters, no getting close. Attack those they care instead"

Wasting a character is really not a problem. I'm the GM. The thing is I don't want my players going down that road. I don't kill characters on a whim, and even give them a chance if they roll badly like the nth time in a row. Players who try to go on power trips because the rules allow them, get taken down a notch. Hard.
But GM power trips get real old real fast, so I rather prevent these kind of situations from ever happening.

I'd say most problems with force using characters happen when the ideas between the player and the GM what the character is capable off, don't meet.
All GMs I know enforce their view, which may cause aggravation even if it's not intended.

-Gunhead

I suppose I should have mentioned I turn the power up on my Jedi a notch, closer to the canon, where the only way to get a pesky Knight and his meddling Padawan out of your battleship is specialized shielded droids. Clone Wars only emphasized the feeling I was, so to speak, 'right' in this choice.

But ultimately, your game. I just think it's better thematically if your party is unified in goals, if not necessarily methods..

I usually have a jedi or two in the party. I briefly had a party of all jedi, but most of them were stupid, and so died or were exiled.

that took about 3 days.

Ive found taking hostages works really well against jedi. the main boss was fleeing, and they chased after him. his flunkies stood in the waywith 10 prisoners, and told the jedi they'd let him through in 2 hrs - no one would have to die . I nearly stole the party's ship that way, but they ended up throwing grenades at the hostages.

my favorite villian, who hasnt been introduced yet, is an absolute animal. jedi guardian 4, dark side maruader 3, emperors hand 2, sith warrior 1. he gets like +50 on his resource gather, so will be using a first run acclamator to hunt the party.

SirNitram wrote:I suppose I should have mentioned I turn the power up on my Jedi a notch, closer to the canon, where the only way to get a pesky Knight and his meddling Padawan out of your battleship is specialized shielded droids. Clone Wars only emphasized the feeling I was, so to speak, 'right' in this choice.

If you want to be nasty, you really don't have to go to those extremes. Just open an airlock and then play around with the gravity settings of that section of corridor. That should create a challenge interesting enough, even for a pair of Jedi.

SirNitram wrote:But ultimately, your game. I just think it's better thematically if your party is unified in goals, if not necessarily methods..

I actually prefer it when they're united in goals, divided in position, and both divided and united in methods. Makes for a great dynamic.

I tend to house rule or wing things so force users are a little more powerful. D20 Force powers are a little nerfed IMO.

Eleas wrote:

Imperial Overlord wrote:I concure.

Just out of curiosity (and possibly derailing the thread), what would you say was the most difficult enemy that bounty hunter had to deal with?

Well, he (the player) comes up with most of the good plans. He's good at exploiting the groups skills to their fullest (unlike my Sith, who are just doing a uncharacteristically crappy job of Rping). But she's dropped a Sith Warrior using dual blaster pistols Jango style (that was an ambush, not her perfered way of doing things) and beaten three crime lords of varying power. The Sith was a little luck, but the most impressive victory in direct combat. Bombs and ambushes better examples of her style.

NecronLord wrote:

Gunhead wrote:I find it irritating when people think that jedi always successfully parries a blaster bolt, because they do so in the movies that have character shields coming in throught the windows.

Balance aside, they will always do so barring exceptional circumstances such as being blindsided. It's not their skill that parries, it's done by giving one's self to the force. A good jedi would automatically pass any test to block blaster fire.

Incidentally, I'm happy to announce that I just got the core book for this for £10. It's the pre-AotC version though, and I couldn't find the Dark Side Sourcebook.

I have both the post-AotC core book and the DSS, as well as the NJOSS and the Spaceships of the Galaxy. If there's anything specific you're interested in, I'd be willing to e-mail or PM you individual things, though obviously not the whole book (as that'd be illegal ). I don't have them with me at the moment, but I will have access to them as of 4/27.

And D20 Force powers are in some cases nerfed and in others beefed. Some of the things Dark Side Alchemy can do are just wrong, IIRC. A master Alchemist can make a kitten into a killing machine that would make a Wookie look weak.

The Dark wrote: And D20 Force powers are in some cases nerfed and in others beefed. Some of the things Dark Side Alchemy can do are just wrong, IIRC. A master Alchemist can make a kitten into a killing machine that would make a Wookie look weak.

In many cases it's just weird. Like the mechanism for Dark Side corruption, which cripples any high-level Sith character.