Religious Inclinations of heroes

18-Till-I-Die · Post by **18-Till-I-Die** » 2005-03-02 12:11pm

Maybe there is a defined difference in Gods. X'Hal and God being two seperate creatures, shouldnt be really comperable just cause they inhabit the same environment. A shark and a sea turtle inhabit the same environment but who would argue they're the same, the shark simply developed far more power.

speaker-to-trolls · Post by **speaker-to-trolls** » 2005-03-02 12:47pm

I haven't read any of the comics which feature gods blowing up moons and shit, but I got the impression from Sandman that gods (like the Greek gods, Egyptian gods, etc) need people to worship them and believe in them, but God (as in Yahweh) didn't, since He was the creator of the universe. I decided this after reading Fables and Reflections where Eve tells a story about her and Adam, and Abel says that 'this wasn't on Earth'. I don't know how closely Vertigo is connected to the other DC comics, though.

Loner · Post by **Loner** » 2005-03-02 01:57pm

NeoGoomba wrote:The Punisher definately knows that angels and demons exist.

*shudders at Demon Hunter Punisher*

He also made a deal with the grim reaper in the Born miniseries.

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2005-03-02 02:40pm

18-Till-I-Die wrote:Maybe there is a defined difference in Gods. X'Hal and God being two seperate creatures, shouldnt be really comperable just cause they inhabit the same environment. A shark and a sea turtle inhabit the same environment but who would argue they're the same, the shark simply developed far more power.

And?

You do understand that the whole silliness was that God could not have more power by what was defined. Literally he has less worshippers and thus by the extension does not have the level of what X'Hal did.

This isn't "Well maybe his worshipers are stronger...", it that the issues brought up a ridiculous thought and forgot something in their own universe, thus causing a intersting flub that'll never be addressed.

Shortie · Post by **Shortie** » 2005-03-02 02:43pm

Battlehymn Republic wrote:Perhaps I should make a thread only about the comic or religious comics in general, but has anyone read Astro City: Confession? The main character is Altar Boy, the sidekick of the Confessor, who's Catholic. There's also a born-again bunch named the Crossbreed.

Just read it actually. Very cool.

Winged Victory appears to be less than a fan of Catholicism, and I'd assume that as a Wonder Woman analogue she's either linked to another pantheon or a variant on Christianity. Shadow Hill appears to be influenced by older, darker religions (was that Cthulu the Hanged Man was wrestling?)

lgot · Post by **lgot** » 2005-03-03 02:49am

I remembered also the Graphic of Silver Sufer that tells about Galactus coming to earth and getting worshipers (he was still bound to the promess to not devour us, so that was his "vengeance")...of course that was Moebius's art...

About Gaiman and the not this earth, you have probally relate more to Gaiman's literary influence than a desire to be sided with a DCU cronology - He clears wants to show that there is many stories, thefefore many worlds (The series about the End World tavern shows it), that is probally Gaiman influence from Moderm fantasy to such people as Italo Calvino or Jorge Luiz Borges (if not them, people from their "area")

Post by **The Yosemite Bear** » 2005-03-03 02:51am

And let's not get into all father, darkseid and that lot shall we....

speaker-to-trolls · Post by **speaker-to-trolls** » 2005-03-05 07:55am

lgot wrote:
About Gaiman and the not this earth, you have probally relate more to Gaiman's literary influence than a desire to be sided with a DCU cronology - He clears wants to show that there is many stories, thefefore many worlds (The series about the End World tavern shows it), that is probally Gaiman influence from Moderm fantasy to such people as Italo Calvino or Jorge Luiz Borges (if not them, people from their "area")

He didn't say it wasn't on this Earth, he said it wasn't on Earth. I at least took that to mean that the judaeo-christian stories were humans putting human faces on the real story, while ordinary gods are just human stories given flesh. Also, ther's the fact that Dream doesn't seem to have much respect for gods, e.g "I am no little Roman God"
"The gods of the Underworld respect him, sometimes I think they even fear him", but was pissing himself at the prospect of going one-on-one with Lucifer, who he said might well be the most powerful being there is "besides his creator".
Also, in Lucifer, then Lucifer says he remembers when The Voiceless were created, and that they were created before the other gods.

Rye · Post by **Rye** » 2005-03-05 08:28am

Elheru Aran wrote:One presumes that most authors would rather avoid religious references in order to prevent offense to any parties; early PC, so to speak.

That said, there's Azrael, guy who replaced Batman during the 'Knightfall' story arc, IIRC-- a monk of the Order of St. Dumas. That would make him distinctly Catholic. Not sure about any others, though...

Well, IIRC, the order of St. Dumas was a section of the knights templar, (which were deemed heretics for various interesting reasons) and he took the form of an avenging angel, and lots of things about that sect seemed away from the catholic norm.

Plus it's not like he showed he still believed it beyond subliminal conditioning, AFAIK. He harboured a bit of a grudge against them, and that might make him disbelieve (godless knows there's lots of ex catholics like that).

I'd guess that "atheist" as much as it can be applied to knowledgable characters like Batman would apply something like an atheist jaffa in stargate, there's all these characters from mythology with magical powers that definately exist, but they're not really anything more than other people with more power than you. They're still technically godless, I guess, because they don't follow them though they know they exist. Maybe "nontheist" would be a better term.

Post by **The Yosemite Bear** » 2005-03-05 04:08pm

lol

George Carlin: Wait you do beleive there's a man in the sky, who watches everything you do?

Batman: Yeah, but Jonn only watches what I do in my bedroom when Cinemax after dark's not on, and Clark's no where near as anal.

Batman · Post by **Batman** » 2005-03-05 04:13pm

The Yosemite Bear wrote:lol
George Carlin: Wait you do beleive there's a man in the sky, who watches everything you do?
Batman: Yeah, but Jonn only watches what I do in my bedroom when Cinemax after dark's not on, and Clark's no where near as anal.

You know, that's a take on the 'man in the sky watching you' idea most people wouldn't have thought of.

Post by **The Yosemite Bear** » 2005-03-05 04:31pm

What ever made anyone think I might be "Most People"?

Post by **The Yosemite Bear** » 2005-03-05 04:33pm

Which knowing you means you've found some way to keep the Watchtower constantly supplied with Oreos, microwave Popcorn, and fresh porn....

Batman · Post by **Batman** » 2005-03-05 04:35pm

Extraterrestrials are so easily distracted...

lgot · Post by **lgot** » 2005-03-05 10:17pm

He didn't say it wasn't on this Earth, he said it wasn't on Earth.

That is because Eden is not on earth, but regardless, That have nothing to do with what I was saying and this comment does not change anything about the probally view of Gaiman...

I at least took that to mean that the judaeo-christian stories were humans putting human faces on the real story, while ordinary gods are just human stories given flesh.

Everything are stories to Sandman, some became real and some not. The other god are "real" without doubt, as much as the jew god (you must notice that just the existense of the Endless already overlaps the jew myth to have "People" interpretations also), if they are just stories they would residents of the Dreaming, not of their own "realm".
(Have you not noticed that Abel,Eve and Cain are storytellers in the old sense, the reality, space, time irrelevant. They will tell many stories, will do the iniciation of those who visit them with those stories but all is methaphorical mythological stuff, that would not happen in earth ? )

Also, ther's the fact that Dream doesn't seem to have much respect for gods,

He does show a lot of respect for Gods, You see that by his reception of the guests during the Seasons of the Mist. He is however more powerful than then and he is aware of such thing. If anything, He was always a strict respectful dude.

"The gods of the Underworld respect him, sometimes I think they even fear him", but was pissing himself at the prospect of going one-on-one with Lucifer, who he said might well be the most powerful being there is "besides his creator".

Indeed, and how this shows lack of respect to Gods ? Saying something true ?

Also, in Lucifer, then Lucifer says he remembers when The Voiceless were created, and that they were created before the other gods.

And Death will survive after them and after the universe. So ?

The Dark · Post by **The Dark** » 2005-03-19 11:01pm

IIRC, Stryker was sort of a Christian, and Captain America (Ultimate one) goes to church weekly, so he's a Christian by standard definition also. Huntress is Catholic. Falcon was raised as a Baptist. The Rayner Green Lantern is Catholic, and Spider-Man often "thinks" to God, so he's some sort of monotheist (could be Christian, Jewish, Muslim, or Zoroastrian...possibly even Brahmanic Hindu). Firebird is also a Christian. Nightwing has DC Talk CDs and an NIV Bible in his room; circumstantial but significant evidence that he may be Christian. The old Superboy (1960s) may be Christian, as he "memorized both Testaments of the Holy Bible," according to an editor's letter.

I'm not sure about the Watcher. He makes a comment about there only being one all-powerful being, "and His only weapon...is love." The Watcher is definitely spiritual if not religious in some way.

Jewish characters include Shaloman and Sabraman, the Hayoth, Ragman, Sabra, and Rose (from Punisher). Moon Knight, Sandman, and Nuklon are all Jewish by heritage though (IIRC) non-practicing. Of course, the Thing is now well-known to be Jewish. Ruben Flagg (American Flagg) is also Jewish.

Patrick Degan · Post by **Patrick Degan** » 2005-03-20 12:18am

Kurt Wagner a.k.a. Nightcrawler of the X-Men is definitely Roman Catholic.

Post by **The Yosemite Bear** » 2005-03-20 12:44am

Gotham's "Ragman" is deffinatly Jewish, mind you since he's only seen by the very poor and sticks to one Ghetto, even Bat's thinks that one's just an "Urban Legend", however Jason Blood knows the truth...

The Dark · Post by **The Dark** » 2005-03-20 01:31am

The Yosemite Bear wrote:Gotham's "Ragman" is deffinatly Jewish, mind you since he's only seen by the very poor and sticks to one Ghetto, even Bat's thinks that one's just an "Urban Legend", however Jason Blood knows the truth...

Well, given that Ragman is one of a number of characters based on the legend of the Golem, it's normal that he stick to one neighborhood.

ali-sama · Post by **ali-sama** » 2005-03-21 12:39pm

daredevil is definatly catolic

Post by **The Yosemite Bear** » 2005-03-22 04:03am

what religion would Jason Blood be considered now?

We knew he was a traitor and a pagan knight during the time of King Arthur, whom Merlin cursed to be bonded with his own daemonic half brother.....

Vendetta · Post by **Vendetta** » 2005-03-22 05:51am

Well his alter-ego is an occasional inhabitant of Hell, so he probably knows enough to make an informed decision.

Oh, and I'm not sure how things stand right now, but cf. Lucifer book 6, Yahweh has gone. No-one knows where.