The Empire in WH40k

Post by **NecronLord** » 2005-01-25 05:29pm

DocHorror wrote: <Snip Spoiler>

No. Not only is Palpy not that smart ("I'll use myself as bait in the trap"), the Chaos Gods aren't going to fall for something like that.

Post by **NecronLord** » 2005-01-25 05:32pm

Guardsman Bass wrote:Since the Empire will get torn apart by Chaos, perhaps it would be better to posit a scenario in which only the rare force-users can get targeted by chaos, or where humanity is completely sealed from warp influence on human minds. Psychic power wouldn't harm them, but it wouldn't help them, either. They'd be sort of like a gigantic equivalent to the Tau.

No need. Physical distance will protect them. The Chaos Gods are effectively limited to the Milky Way.

Brother-Captain Gaius · Post by **Brother-Captain Gaius** » 2005-01-25 05:35pm

NecronLord wrote:No need. Physical distance will protect them. The Chaos Gods are effectively limited to the Milky Way.

Not true. In Dead Sky Black Sun, Khorne is described as revelling in the slaughter of entire galaxies.

Post by **NecronLord** » 2005-01-25 05:38pm

JediNeophyte wrote:Not true. In Dead Sky Black Sun, Khorne is described as revelling in the slaughter of entire galaxies.

Out of character, or character thoughts? I'm calling more chaos worshipper bullshit on this one.

Also, galaxies could mean the magenellic clouds. Hell, there's a galaxy hitting this one in the (relatively) near future.

Post by **fgalkin** » 2005-01-25 05:40pm

NecronLord wrote:
Guardsman Bass wrote:Since the Empire will get torn apart by Chaos, perhaps it would be better to posit a scenario in which only the rare force-users can get targeted by chaos, or where humanity is completely sealed from warp influence on human minds. Psychic power wouldn't harm them, but it wouldn't help them, either. They'd be sort of like a gigantic equivalent to the Tau.
No need. Physical distance will protect them. The Chaos Gods are effectively limited to the Milky Way.

Umm..did you read the OP? The Empire replaces the IoM worlds. It is now in the Milky Way galaxy.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

Post by **NecronLord** » 2005-01-25 05:42pm

fgalkin wrote:Umm..did you read the OP? The Empire replaces the IoM worlds. It is now in the Milky Way galaxy.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

Meh. No I didn't. I'm skimming. That one doesn't work. The Empire has at least fifty times the worlds the IoM does.

Brother-Captain Gaius · Post by **Brother-Captain Gaius** » 2005-01-25 05:45pm

Awful knowledge flooded Uriel as he stared into the portal opened in the fabric of the universe. He saw galaxies of billions upon billions of souls harvested and fed to the Lord of Skulls, the Blood God.

Post by **fgalkin** » 2005-01-25 05:45pm

NecronLord wrote:
fgalkin wrote:Umm..did you read the OP? The Empire replaces the IoM worlds. It is now in the Milky Way galaxy.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin
Meh. That one doesn't work. The Empire has at least fifty times the worlds the IoM does.

That is why I mentioned that only 1 million or so worlds of the empire get transported. The IoM worlds get replaced by their Imperial equivalents (hive worlds with city planets, Terra with Coruscant, etc). But they do get their entire military.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

Post by **NecronLord** » 2005-01-25 05:46pm

Hallucination. Premonition. Other hyperbole.

Post by **fgalkin** » 2005-01-25 05:47pm

NecronLord wrote:Hallucination. Premonition. Other hyperbole.

Eh?

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

Post by **NecronLord** » 2005-01-25 05:48pm

The quote above, "he saw galaxies being slaughtered"

Post by **fgalkin** » 2005-01-25 05:49pm

NecronLord wrote:The quote above, "he saw galaxies being slaughtered"

Ah, ok. I didn't even see that one.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

Falkenhayn · Post by **Falkenhayn** » 2005-01-25 05:58pm

Wasn't Gharagatuloth of Nurgle a planet sized Demon Prince? What weapons short of the Death Star does the GE have to deal with that? And even if you BDZ him, at most you will have a thousand years and a day before you have to deal with him again.

What experience does the GE have against demonic plots involving dozens of systems and unfolding over the course of decades?

Seeing as Tzeentch finds a way to snatch STC constructs and otherwise fuck the IoM out of any dangerous technological advancement for the past ten millenia, then it stands to reason he could corrupt a ISD crew, or riddle a Death Star or SSD with Chaos Covens by dint of the shear size of their compliments.

Post by **NecronLord** » 2005-01-25 06:01pm

Falkenhayn wrote:Wasn't Gharagatuloth of Nurgle a planet sized Demon Prince? What weapons short of the Death Star does the GE have to deal with that? And even if you BDZ him, at most you will have a thousand years and a day before you have to deal with him again.

He wasn't planet sized in realspace AFAIK. In the warp or warp infested space, perhaps yes, but generally no.

What experience does the GE have against demonic plots involving dozens of systems and unfolding over the course of decades?

None.

Seeing as Tzeentch finds a way to snatch STC constructs and otherwise fuck the IoM out of any dangerous technological advancement for the past ten millenia, then it stands to reason he could corrupt a ISD crew, or riddle a Death Star or SSD with Chaos Covens by dint of the shear size of their compliments.

Such has happened to IoM ships in 40k.

Rye · Post by **Rye** » 2005-01-25 06:08pm

NecronLord wrote:
JediNeophyte wrote:Not true. In Dead Sky Black Sun, Khorne is described as revelling in the slaughter of entire galaxies.
Out of character, or character thoughts? I'm calling more chaos worshipper bullshit on this one.

Also, galaxies could mean the magenellic clouds. Hell, there's a galaxy hitting this one in the (relatively) near future.

It'd make sense for Khorne at least to have either some of his essence or the presence of another being just like him in the appropriate warpsapce of other galaxies, since war and violence are fairly inherent to all life.

Post by **NecronLord** » 2005-01-25 06:10pm

Rye wrote:It'd make sense for Khorne at least to have either some of his essence or the presence of another being just like him in the appropriate warpsapce of other galaxies, since war and violence are fairly inherent to all life.

Only the Old Ones weapons unleashed the warp turmoil on the Milky Way, due to the sheer number of super warp sensatives they created. It's possible, indeed, likely they went to some other galaxies, but by no means all.

Rye · Post by **Rye** » 2005-01-25 06:12pm

What the hell were the old ones, I've heard lots about the other players in wh40k, but I've only heard about these old ones at the edges of paragraphs about other beings. Like "they used some old one tech to fight horus" or whatever.

Lost Soal · Post by **Lost Soal** » 2005-01-25 08:08pm

Palpy may be the better target, though by the time of the GE his ego may be too large to truly accept any form of subservience. But they'll both be targeted for conversion, likely by multiple chaos entities, and if they both toss over the chaos, they could even end up in direct conflict as a result.

He becomes more deluded and while Palpy may believe he is using the Chaos Gods he will simply be serving their purpose. In the end Horus described himself as "Master of Chaos". A deluded impossibility

NecronLord wrote:
Guardsman Bass wrote:Since the Empire will get torn apart by Chaos, perhaps it would be better to posit a scenario in which only the rare force-users can get targeted by chaos, or where humanity is completely sealed from warp influence on human minds. Psychic power wouldn't harm them, but it wouldn't help them, either. They'd be sort of like a gigantic equivalent to the Tau.
No need. Physical distance will protect them. The Chaos Gods are effectively limited to the Milky Way.

It doesn't matter whether force is comparable to psykers or not. It doesn't matter wheather you can willfully access the warp or not.
EVERY living being has a prescence (soul) in the warp except for Pariah's like the Culexus Assassin. Therefore when someone dies there soul drifts and is consumed by the Chaos God must associated with their manner of life and death. The more destruction the GE causes the more they will feed the Chaos Gods. The only reason that it appears that they are limited to the Milky Way is because of the setting of the IoM and because the Eldar gave them their greatest entrence and power base in this galaxy.

Falkenhayn · Post by **Falkenhayn** » 2005-01-25 08:58pm

Rye wrote:What the hell were the old ones, I've heard lots about the other players in wh40k, but I've only heard about these old ones at the edges of paragraphs about other beings. Like "they used some old one tech to fight horus" or whatever.

The Old Ones were the initial species of the Milky Way Galaxy. They created pretty much every other race, but in the end were beaten to hell by the C'Tan after a long war that involved gods, demigods and weapons that make IoM Geonukes look like firecrackers. The Gods of the Eldar, namely Khaela Mensha Kain and the Harlequin, fought on their side, along with the Eldar themselves, before the Fall.

The Old Ones were crippled and the C'Tan reduced to the four that are left now, after they began consuming eachother in their hunger. The Eldar then reached the height of their power.

Connor MacLeod · Post by **Connor MacLeod** » 2005-01-26 02:20am

fgalkin wrote:
NecronLord wrote:
fgalkin wrote:Umm..did you read the OP? The Empire replaces the IoM worlds. It is now in the Milky Way galaxy.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin
Meh. That one doesn't work. The Empire has at least fifty times the worlds the IoM does.
That is why I mentioned that only 1 million or so worlds of the empire get transported. The IoM worlds get replaced by their Imperial equivalents (hive worlds with city planets, Terra with Coruscant, etc). But they do get their entire military.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

That's rather silly, since it deliberately cripples the Empire by reducing them to a fraction of their industrial/resource capability. Moreover, its probelmatical in that it does nothing to dilute the actual fleet size, which puts an even GREATER burden on the planets still remaining.. which is only another disadvantage the Empire has to face.

And this still leaves them open to the hypothetical dangers of the Chaos Gods and/or Warp (which is still up for debate.)

Connor MacLeod · Post by **Connor MacLeod** » 2005-01-26 02:29am

Imperial Overlord wrote:The whole psyker/force thing needs to be sorted out. Psychic powers can have signifigant effects on the battlefield, so this isn't a trivial concern. And the dangers of the warp isn't insignifigant either.

What needs to be done is some clarification if not outright comparison/analysis of this "corruption" and whatnot. All I've been seeing so far is some vague and seemingly arbitrary comparisons. How long does the corruption take? Is it mind control, bribery, demonic possession or what? What sorts of limitations does it offer? Are there beings it doesnt work on? Does willpower have any factor on it?

Someone also mentioned something about fanaticism/loyalty..

Black Admiral · Post by **Black Admiral** » 2005-01-26 04:50am

Connor MacLeod wrote:What needs to be done is some clarification if not outright comparison/analysis of this "corruption" and whatnot. All I've been seeing so far is some vague and seemingly arbitrary comparisons. How long does the corruption take?

It varies. It can take anywhere from a few seconds to decades, depending on the person, and how direct the Chaos beastie doing the corrupting is willing to be.

Is it mind control, bribery, demonic possession or what?

All of the above.

What sorts of limitations does it offer?

Depends on which of the four Chaos Gods you're aligned to really.

Are there beings it doesnt work on? Does willpower have any factor on it?

It doesn't work on Tyranids, mainly thanks to the psychic strength of the hivemind (and the shadow in the Warp). Aside from that, humans with massive amounts warding, psychic training and faith tend to do well.

Someone also mentioned something about fanaticism/loyalty..

That would be me. The regular soldiers of the Imperium are loyal to the GEoM, and that serves them well on the battlefield. Barring excess stupidity like fooling around with Chaos tainted materials and so on anyway.

The problem is, Tzeentch is an utter fething bastard for manipulating anyone, regardless of loyalties, and he's suckered the Imperium into fighting itself at least once before (Grey Knights).

Lost Soal · Post by **Lost Soal** » 2005-01-26 06:21am

Quote:
Are there beings it doesnt work on? Does willpower have any factor on it?

It doesn't work on Tyranids, mainly thanks to the psychic strength of the hivemind (and the shadow in the Warp). Aside from that, humans with massive amounts warding, psychic training and faith tend to do well.

I don't bevieve Tyranids are completely immune to the effects of chaos. In Gray Hunter the tyranids on the space hulk appear to have been mutaited to some degree effecting their speed and reflexes.
I'm not saying they follow chaos but their deffinately vulnerable to the physical curruption aspects.

white_rabbit · Post by **white_rabbit** » 2005-01-26 06:38am

Lost Soal wrote:
Quote:
Are there beings it doesnt work on? Does willpower have any factor on it?

It doesn't work on Tyranids, mainly thanks to the psychic strength of the hivemind (and the shadow in the Warp). Aside from that, humans with massive amounts warding, psychic training and faith tend to do well.
I don't bevieve Tyranids are completely immune to the effects of chaos. In Gray Hunter the tyranids on the space hulk appear to have been mutaited to some degree effecting their speed and reflexes.
I'm not saying they follow chaos but their deffinately vulnerable to the physical curruption aspects.

An isolated bunch on Nids on a space hulk, that literally incorporated the Eldar warp lock into a Hive node beast.

A pity it was connected to Daemon of Nurgles prison, but *shrug*

Lost Soal · Post by **Lost Soal** » 2005-01-26 08:17am

It still shows they can be affected, all be it under extream circumstances.