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Patroklos wrote:Are you saying he came out of hyperspace under the shield already?

Absolutely. If I remember properly, he was well into the atmosphere when he came out. This is no seat of the pants maneuver either, it obviously has to be precisely timed, and you have to have an engine and for the love of god inertial dampeners sufficient to the task of not being a fly on the cosmic windshield when you do it.

Galvatron wrote:Boy, that Senate never ceases to be a pain in the ass, does it? It doesn't matter who's in power, the Senate eventually turns on them.

Something tells me the post Hosnian senate will be an even bigger pain in the arse.

Pelranius wrote:

Galvatron wrote:Boy, that Senate never ceases to be a pain in the ass, does it? It doesn't matter who's in power, the Senate eventually turns on them.

Something tells me the post Hosnian senate will be an even bigger pain in the arse.

I just read an interesting article about that very problem with this continuation of Star Wars.

When fantasy sagas never end, we see the cycles of brutality and totalitarianism that fuel them don't, either

Kill him, a voice inside her head said. It was amorphous, unidentifiable, raw. Pure vengeful emotion. So easy, she told herself. So quick.

She recoiled from it. From the dark side.

Hmm. From the Dark Side itself, or from a user of the Dark Side, i.e., Snoke, trying to turn her?

Galvatron wrote:

Pelranius wrote:

Galvatron wrote:Boy, that Senate never ceases to be a pain in the ass, does it? It doesn't matter who's in power, the Senate eventually turns on them.

Something tells me the post Hosnian senate will be an even bigger pain in the arse.

I just read an interesting article about that very problem with this continuation of Star Wars.

When fantasy sagas never end, we see the cycles of brutality and totalitarianism that fuel them don't, either

You mean just like the real world, where winning World War II didn't stop the next wave of genocidal bigots and dictators from rising?

Seems rather plausible to me, if a bit depressing. Even the greatest triumphs don't make history stop.

The Romulan Republic wrote:

Galvatron wrote:

Pelranius wrote: Something tells me the post Hosnian senate will be an even bigger pain in the arse.

I just read an interesting article about that very problem with this continuation of Star Wars.

When fantasy sagas never end, we see the cycles of brutality and totalitarianism that fuel them don't, either

You mean just like the real world, where winning World War II didn't stop the next wave of genocidal bigots and dictators from rising?

Seems rather plausible to me, if a bit depressing. Even the greatest triumphs don't make history stop.

That seems to be the point the article was trying to make, yes - there can't be a happily ever after if you step into the " ever after " part.

At the same time, it doesn't help to completely wipe away previous accomplishments in earlier films. It's not like the world went back to the pre-WW2 status quo after the Axis powers were defeated. In fact, the world changed radically. And so, it's a bit annoying that the setting in Ep 7 seems so much like the setting in Ep 4, with barely any attention paid to this New Galatic Republic that everyone fought so hard to establish. I wouldn't expect the ending of ROTJ to magically wipe away all conflict from the Galaxy, but I would at least expect the New Republic to be a serious player in Galactic affairs. But Ep 7 pretty much ignores it, except to show its fleet get blown away as some kind of after-thought, so we can get back to some X-Wing vs. TIE fighter action with the Rebel Alliance Resitance.

I think focusing on smaller scale stuff was a good decision, I just wish the movie made more of an effort to set the stage for a conflict between the Resistance and the First Order, in a way that doesn't just completely ignore the existence of the New Republic.

But my worst fear is that Ep 8 and 9 will basically just reset to the OT status quo, with the First Order standing in for the Galatic Empire. Let's hope Rian Johnson doesn't do that.

I think a better idea would be to copy from Tolkien a bit - in LOTR we hear of Gondor, and we know it's this pretty powerful (if somewhat corrupt/waning) "good-guy" polity, able to at least stand up to Mordor to a certain extent. But in the first movie, the action focuses on smaller scale stuff in remote areas far away from the Gondor capital. I think Ep 7 should have been more like that. If Sauron somehow nuked Gondor in the first movie, the whole saga would feel a lot smaller, I think. In that sense, I think a better writing strategy would have been to acknowledge that a significant portion of the Galaxy is under the control of the New Republic, and they're an important super-state, but most of the action in Ep 7 is out of their reach/control. That way we still get an OT feel, with some under-dog vs. evil bad guy action, but without shitting all over ROTJ.

Channel72 wrote:At the same time, it doesn't help to completely wipe away previous accomplishments in earlier films. It's not like the world went back to the pre-WW2 status quo after the Axis powers were defeated. In fact, the world changed radically. And so, it's a bit annoying that the setting in Ep 7 seems so much like the setting in Ep 4, with barely any attention paid to this New Galatic Republic that everyone fought so hard to establish. I wouldn't expect the ending of ROTJ to magically wipe away all conflict from the Galaxy, but I would at least expect the New Republic to be a serious player in Galactic affairs. But Ep 7 pretty much ignores it, except to show its fleet get blown away as some kind of after-thought, so we can get back to some X-Wing vs. TIE fighter action with the Rebel Alliance Resitance.

I get the impression the NR is a major player. Its just not where we focus our attention because they figured it wasn't what people wanted to see. Remember all the whining about showing Senate politics in the Prequels?

Far more painful, for me, was seeing the utter ruin wreaked on the lives of Han, Luke, and Leia, and the rest of their family. But I'm not sure how much of that is that it was a creatively poor decision and how much that is just personal dislike for seeing the old heroes have such unhappy futures.

I think focusing on smaller scale stuff was a good decision, I just wish the movie made more of an effort to set the stage for a conflict between the Resistance and the First Order, in a way that doesn't just completely ignore the existence of the New Republic.

The world-building needed more work, agreed.

But my worst fear is that Ep 8 and 9 will basically just reset to the OT status quo, with the First Order standing in for the Galatic Empire. Let's hope Rian Johnson doesn't do that.

Well, if they want it to make an ounce of sense, the Republic has to be still around after Episode VII, and taking a more active role. They were hit badly, but unless they were limited to one system, they weren't wiped out. They'd be insane not to throw everything they had left behind the Resistance that just saved their sorry asses at that point.

I think a better idea would be to copy from Tolkien a bit - in LOTR we hear of Gondor, and we know it's this pretty powerful (if somewhat corrupt/waning) "good-guy" polity, able to at least stand up to Mordor to a certain extent. But in the first movie, the action focuses on smaller scale stuff in remote areas far away from the Gondor capital. I think Ep 7 should have been more like that.

That is basically what we got. It just wasn't elaborated on much.

If Sauron somehow nuked Gondor in the first movie, the whole saga would feel a lot smaller, I think. In that sense, I think a better writing strategy would have been to acknowledge that a significant portion of the Galaxy is under the control of the New Republic, and they're an important super-state, but most of the action in Ep 7 is out of their reach/control. That way we still get an OT feel, with some under-dog vs. evil bad guy action, but without shitting all over ROTJ.

See above.

Finished it it today. Here's something that may be of interest to users here. I have the Kindle version, so I can't quote the exact page. It's chapter 7, the scene where Rey and Finn got the Falcon captured and think they're about to be boarded by the First Order (they get boarded by Han and Chewie instead):

She refused to accept it. "There have to be other options besides dying!"

He sighed heavily. "Sure. We could run--if the engines could be powered up. We could try and fight--if the blasters would function. We could step into the matter transporter--if such a thing existed." He shook his head dolefully.

Hmm. Why would Finn bring that up if its something that doesn't exist? Maybe he was just joking, but it doesn't really sound like it in the context of the scene.

Here's a thought- what if the First Order has been trying to build matter transporters, but hasn't figured out how to make one that works yet, and Finn knows about the project?

Perhaps they have TV in the SW universe, and a popular show has transporters?

Another small technical note,

Hitting the controls neccesary to alter course within a lightspeed run, Poe addressed the rest of the flight

I'm not sure if this previously showed up in the EU but within the movies we've never seen mid-jump course changes nor communication during the jump.

Ace Pace wrote:Another small technical note,

Hitting the controls neccesary to alter course within a lightspeed run, Poe addressed the rest of the flight

I'm not sure if this previously showed up in the EU but within the movies we've never seen mid-jump course changes nor communication during the jump.

Depending on your POV, the implication behind Han saying "I think I lost them" or whatever in ANH could indicate that he was doing mid-jump course changes. Otherwise the Legends EU treated it as something that typically doesn't happen, with ships that can (Bossk's being an example) as being unusual.

Assuming that the Starkiller Bases' shields were top of the line and that planetary shields are not designed to deal with hyperspace, that could be another reason why the Starkiller Base was built. We don't know how powerful planetary shields are in Episode 7, but it's possible that in the 40+ years since the original Death Star came out someone finally developed shield tech strong enough to block a hit. It could help explain why they went that route over simply rebuilding the Death Star 2, which would have been quicker to build while still unstoppable via conventional fleets. in addition to removing the exhaust port weakness the DS2 presumably would have had a much "tighter defence" than the original in order to handle star fighters, Dodonna pointed out that the original Death Star could have been much more difficult to attack if they had viewed starfighters as a threat.

EDIT: Actually that's a good question: what do you think took more time / materials / manpower to build, the Death Star 2 or the Star Killer Base? I would place my bets on the Star Killer Base due to its sheer size, new tech, and the fact the First Order was much smaller than the Empire, though it was carved out of a planet rather than being entirely artifical. I wonder how much more quickly the DS2 could have been built if the Emperor had decided not to make a super secret project and just built it near a major industrial world the Rebels had no chance of successfully attacking?

Finished it it today. Here's something that may be of interest to users here. I have the Kindle version, so I can't quote the exact page. It's chapter 7, the scene where Rey and Finn got the Falcon captured and think they're about to be boarded by the First Order (they get boarded by Han and Chewie instead):

She refused to accept it. "There have to be other options besides dying!"

He sighed heavily. "Sure. We could run--if the engines could be powered up. We could try and fight--if the blasters would function. We could step into the matter transporter--if such a thing existed." He shook his head dolefully.

Well, that could imply a few things:

Finn's just being sarcastic, and the transporter idea is little more than fiction in the Star Wars universe. There's a few times where I've wished I transporter myself, doesn't mean I'm likely to get one for my birthday.

The Star Wars universe has attempted at various to make a working theory as to how to operate a matter transporter, but has so far not succeeded.

The Star Wars universe has the theoretical knowledge on how a matter transporter works, but does not have the practical knowledge or tech necessary to build such a thing. Kind of like how the Federation has been unable to build a working trans warp drive even though they've been trying for nearly a century, the tech base just isn't there yet. Or like our difficulties in developing fusion power.

The Star Wars universe does in fact have matter transporters, but they are rare and/or experimental enough that most people aren't aware of them. IMO this seems the least likely scenario, but it's a big galaxy out there and I suppose that someone out there may be close / have developed a working model. After all, nobody outside of the New Order was aware of the StarKiller base or it's capabilities until it suddenly blew up the New Republic's capital planets.

Tribble wrote: The Star Wars universe does in fact have matter transporters, but they are rare and/or experimental enough that most people aren't aware of them. IMO this seems the least likely scenario, but it's a big galaxy out there and I suppose that someone out there may be close / have developed a working model. After all, nobody outside of the New Order was aware of the StarKiller base or it's capabilities until it suddenly blew up the New Republic's capital planets.

If you want to take old Legends EU... there was one comic-book story with Boba Fett that used a matter transporter of some sort. It's, as far as I know, the only example in the entire SW canon other than some weird Force-based Rakata or Precursor tech from KOTOR/TOR. I can run with the 'it's possible but nobody that we know of has actually done it' line of thought, though.