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Purple wrote:

Thanas wrote:a) Why would you want to?

It sounds like a challenge. And besides, if I do win I can than proceed to try and return slavery to the world in a grand crusade or something. And that's just nifty.

BTW. Can you like instate slavery in your country in this game and have like black african slaves building railroads in Europe and stuff?

b) No, it is quite hard. Expect a lot of saves. and reloads aka exploiting the AI.

I see. I can live with that. I always fund it silly that people think reloading is somehow cheating.

No, I don't think you can.

So what, you want to be the Draka or something? To be EVIL because it's fun?

Steve wrote:No, I don't think you can.

So what, you want to be the Draka or something? To be EVIL because it's fun?

I have no idea who this Draka guy is. But yea, basically.

The Draka are SM Stirling's slaver society from Hell, he wrote a series of novels about them. Basically Boers, Loyalists from a timeline where the US took Canada in the Revolution, French slave-owners from Haiti, and Icelanders escaping a natural calamity create a super-toxic mix in South America, which names itself Drakia (supposedly after Sir Francis Drake), finds the diamond wealth ahistorically early, buys out the EIC, and begins conquering Africa and then THE WORLD.

Centuries after they've successfully enslaved the entire planet, the Draka not only genetically engineer themselves into ubermenschen and turn the rest of Humanity into genetically-engineered docile slaves, they start tinkering with wormholes and interdimensional travel. And one of their number ends up on a modern day Earth. Or something. Never read it myself.

There was once a major collaborative work on SDN called "Drakafic" which basically took every author fiat advantage the Draka got in their history and twisted it in a new direction. MKSheppard was one of the lead writers, so naturally it ended with American B-36s dropping atomic bombs on Archona (Cape Town) in 1947.

That sounds cool.

Are you sure about the CSA Thanas? Because I often see them gaining independence in my PDM games, just because the AI can only rarely pull off an attack.

One of the fun bits of this game is that due to economic factors, the CSA often winds up more liberal/socialist than the North, and outlaws slavery shortly after independence.

Unfortunately the CSA isn't very useful for the goal of dividing and weakening America, in fact none of the potential states are because none of them cut off the New York-the foundry area. Except the Manhattan Comune if it is still in, and that only covers NYC proper.

After the goal of uniting all of the German peoples under one banner is achieved, we must cut down on the flow of people to the new world, and America. To this end, I petition that you support the reactionaries in order to pass the "nobody gets out" emigration law. For our people are like children, and like a carring parent, we know what is best for them.

Titan Uranus wrote:Are you sure about the CSA Thanas? Because I often see them gaining independence in my PDM games, just because the AI can only rarely pull off an attack.

One of the fun bits of this game is that due to economic factors, the CSA often winds up more liberal/socialist than the North, and outlaws slavery shortly after independence.

The CSA sometimes gets independence but then gets overrun a few years later.

After the goal of uniting all of the German peoples under one banner is achieved, we must cut down on the flow of people to the new world, and America. To this end, I petition that you support the reactionaries in order to pass the "nobody gets out" emigration law. For our people are like children, and like a carring parent, we know what is best for them.

No. That will wreck the state.

Steve wrote:
There was once a major collaborative work on SDN called "Drakafic" which basically took every author fiat advantage the Draka got in their history and twisted it in a new direction. MKSheppard was one of the lead writers, so naturally it ended with American B-36s dropping atomic bombs on Archona (Cape Town) in 1947.

I read that back in the day good times.

Titan Uranus wrote:After the goal of uniting all of the German peoples under one banner is achieved, we must cut down on the flow of people to the new world, and America. To this end, I petition that you support the reactionaries in order to pass the "nobody gets out" emigration law. For our people are like children, and like a carring parent, we know what is best for them.

Keep in mind that the pops most likely to look to emigrate are the ones that are the most unhappy with their current situation. Keeping them there means that they'll continue to grow more and more upset until you start having serious rebellion issues.

I am an idiot. I meant South Africa, not South America, for where the Draka originated. I must have been thinking of all those Confederate diehards who emigrated to Brazil, although it turned out they lacked the financial means to buy slaves again.

Flameblade wrote:

Titan Uranus wrote:After the goal of uniting all of the German peoples under one banner is achieved, we must cut down on the flow of people to the new world, and America. To this end, I petition that you support the reactionaries in order to pass the "nobody gets out" emigration law. For our people are like children, and like a carring parent, we know what is best for them.

Keep in mind that the pops most likely to look to emigrate are the ones that are the most unhappy with their current situation. Keeping them there means that they'll continue to grow more and more upset until you start having serious rebellion issues.

They will emigrate no mater what you do, militant helps, but a united Germany will always lose several thousand to slightly over ten thousand citizens a month to the USA/the Americas, but especially the USA. In the game there is no downside to "nobody gets out" for any nation that is not in the Americas, Oceania, or South Africa.

Although I didn't really expect Thanas to do that because reactionaries are one of the worst parties in the game to have in power besides some anarco-liberal and communist parties. Most of my "advice" will be the kind that will screw him in the long run, because if you are competent at the game, that is the only way to have a real challenge.

Oh, by the way Thanas, in PDM in order the incorporate the Austrian lands you must have them in your sphere of influence when you fire the "Three Hurrahs", typically this is accomplished by occupying Austria until it falls out of great power status.

Titan Uranus wrote:Oh, by the way Thanas, in PDM in order the incorporate the Austrian lands you must have them in your sphere of influence when you fire the "Three Hurrahs", typically this is accomplished by occupying Austria until it falls out of great power status.

It can also fire later on when Austria is much reduced in power, but yeah. Though just occupying Austria is not enough in Divide by Zero.

Forcing it to release Hungary is also a good way to make it fall out of great power status.

Dominus Atheos wrote:Forcing it to release Hungary is also a good way to make it fall out of great power status.

Not in PDM, not strong enough of a hit.

Thanas wrote:

Titan Uranus wrote:Oh, by the way Thanas, in PDM in order the incorporate the Austrian lands you must have them in your sphere of influence when you fire the "Three Hurrahs", typically this is accomplished by occupying Austria until it falls out of great power status.

It can also fire later on when Austria is much reduced in power, but yeah. Though just occupying Austria is not enough in Divide by Zero.

Really? I approve of that change, there used to be a lot of arguments over it back in the day.
Wait, are you talking about that event that only fires if Austria loses all non-core territory? Because then you'll leave a lot of Germans stranded in Hungry/Italy/a bunch of petty Balkan states.

Thanas wrote:

Dominus Atheos wrote:Forcing it to release Hungary is also a good way to make it fall out of great power status.

Not in PDM, not strong enough of a hit.

Yeah, Austrian core territories down to the coast are more than enough even without Bohemia, Poland, and Hungary. Especially since you are going to take BAV, ITA, and probably NET out of the running in the natural course of aiming for Großdeutschland.

Why you should not put your faith in the Turks

To the declaration of war by both the Austrian and Ottoman Empires, the Prussian army reacted quickly.

A series of swift strikes into the south was ordered to catch and eliminate as much of the Austrian Army as possible before the Turkish hordes piled up.



An Austrian corps marching north was caught, encircled and surrendered en masse.

In the west, we followed the same strategy as last time. Quickly strike at the enemy capitals before they can mobilize, then push into Bavaria.


The strategy was successful again. Even more important, we now had Hannover on our side, which meant that Bavaria had to face an allied army twice as strong as the last time.

The presence of the Turks did more harm than good in the propaganda department, as the Prussian ministry quickly dug up the Türkenlieder again.
„Was ermord’t nicht ist und todt,/ Schleppen sie hinweg in Ketten/ […] Diese Räuber schänden Weiber,/ schneiden ihnen auf die Leiber,/ […] Eilet, eilet, nehmt das Schwert,/ Auf den Bluthund einzuhauen!"
(Whoever has not been murdered or killed will be dragged away in chains by the Turks[...]these robbers rape women and cut open their bellies[...]Quick, quick, take up the sword to trash the blood hound).

[Historical note: These songs were sung about the Turks during the Ottoman invasions of Austria to mobilize the German population after the Turks had committed atrocities and sold their victims off into slavery during their conquests, even from cities who had surrendered.]

Meanwhile, our trashing off the Austrian armies continued, with them being unable to check our advance into Bavaria.



Another Austrian corps was ordered to attack our army to delay the advance towards Vienna. This was a suicide mission and resulted in too many deaths for the Austrians to sustain. Of particularly hard to sustain were the casualties of the artillery, which suffered tremendously when our Hussars cut through their lines.

Meanwhile, in light of the contribution by the citizens class a debate was raging in the House:


We quickly moved towards further voting reform, extending the franchise to the middle class.


Why is the main story in the time of war about the rising price of coffee, especially considering we do not produce any of it?

And finally, the Austrians breathed a sigh of relief as the Ottoman Armies started arriving, led by Mustafa Bey, a rising commander.
68k Ottomans poured into Moravia.

However, the well-drilled Prussian infantry, the envy of all of Europe, proved more than a match for the Turkish Army.
Mustafa Bey lost nearly twice the number of soldiers as his lines disintegrated under the fire of the infantry.

Even when the Ottomans enjoyed local superiority at first, like in Silesia...

..the rapid marching pace of the Prusisan Army, assisted by rudimentary railroads, allowed for quick reinforcements...

...and thus resulted in Turkish defeats.


Bavaria sued for a white peace after those Silesian disasters....


...while our Saxon clients friends and allies petitioned for annexation.

of course, the newspapers were more focused on the British and the Dutch expanding their holdings.

On October 30, 1845, barely a year after war had been declared on us, the Prussian and allied armies were advancing on all fronts.

Vienna would soon fall.


As the first state of continental Europe, we allowed equal rights to our Jewish minorities.
[Historical note: The Prussian state (and later the Empire) being this progressive is why Germany had the largest percentage of Jews in high offices or powerful places in the economy, society and culture of all continental states. This is also why people found it so hard to believe Hitler would commit the holocaust, because at this time you had over two centuries of the Prussian state encouraging Jewish life in Germany]


Clearly frightened by our new Jewish soldiers, Austria sued for peace.

All of Silesia and the coal and iron mines of Slowakia would now serve the Prussian Crown.

Austria had gambled on the Turk and lost heavily.

(to be continued below)

(continued from above)


Jews have duties. What a novel concept. Meanwhile, the UK expanded and Denmark insulted us. Yeah, that might not be very smart, Denmark.


We researched economic theory.


With our newest expansions, we reached a population of 25 million citizens.


But as a consequence of all the male deaths in the war, our birth rate decreased to 1.5 children. Hopefully it will get back up again.


We added Luxembourg to our Sphere of influence.


"To make in Prussia a second Greece"? Bad Wolfgang. No hitting the students. Stop it.


The newspapers caught on that we had discovered Neptune. Great. Meanwhile, the Bavarian king had to abdicate after having an affair with an Irish "actress").


We arranged a good, German curriculum for all our schools.


Hahahaha. Good one. We know just the right way to treat the Poles...

Polish nationalists quickly got a boot to the face, which somehow decreased their fervour considerably.



Meanwhile, Hannover petitioned for Annexation.


This added another large landmass to Prussia.


Nothing new here...some fires, some nationalists, the British annex another province...just another day in Europe.


To assuage the Liberals, we reformed even further and now allowed each of our States to send two delegates to the Upper House. Can one imagine the idiocy of small Cottbus with 80k male voters being allowed the same pull as glorious Berlin with five times that many? Whatever nation would be dumb enough to continue with this inefficient system?


No doubt an enraged Polish nationalist. Well, he missed.


PILLS FOR EVERYONE. No way this will ever get abused...


Oh hey, an international crisis.

[Rant: This is a great mechanic in theory and a bad one in practice. Crisis will start for seemingly no reason and be really stupid in the way the AI uses them. For example, you will have things like France and Britain waging war over the Ottomans releasing a one-province nation. Ugh.]

The way a crisis works is that the nations/rebels involved will ask the Great powers for their backing.

Once there is at least one power backing each side, the crisis will start. This will lead to the powers trying to get other Great powers on their side.

Why should we care? No interest.

More often than not the crisis will just fizzle out and the status quo will be maintained. Hooray.


More tech for us.

We further pushed for more economical technology. For industry shall be our salvation.


The UK expands again...what else is new? Hey, a vampire hysteria.

Meanwhile, Austria was taking steps to recover the lost prestige by adding Schleswig-Holstein to their sphere of influence (and kicking our "advisors" out)...

..as well as trying to annex Krakow. When the city of Krakow refused, the Austrians declared war on it.


This was a stomp.

No crisis in our time. Great. And monocle sales are plateauing. Well, I guess there are only so many British colonials in the world....


Oh crap.

Oh shit.

As usual, the French were the first victims of the revolutionary spell.


"Yes, Liberals. We of course will make reforms to appease you. Now you are allowed to create your own parties. Ignore the people with canes on the way to the polling station."
We enacted "Harassment", aka the Putin way to ensure a fair referendum.


How are the other nations doing in this time of Upheaval?

Britain started releasing the dominion that would eventually become Canada.


A choice the USA will obviously never regret. After all, only good things come out from Texas.

The USA will obviously honour the Mexican territorial integri- BWAHAHA, who am I kidding?

Nothing much changed in the Caribbean...

"Do you have a flag" was well-known in Africa nowadays....

...as well as in India, where Britain put more and more principalities under their direct control.

The Netherlands expanded more and more in Indonesia, but at a much slower pace.

Let's check the war tab...

Ah, the US is restoring Order to the Mexican provinces.....but wait, what is up with Austria?

Hungary strong. Remove Schnitzel.
To prevent further rebellions, Austria granted local autonomy to their part of Moldawia and Galicia-Lodomeria.


Pink: Galicia. Orange: (formerly Austrian part of) Moldawia.

God help the Hungarians.

(end of this update).

Give them war subsidies?

Well, we now have quite a bit of German land in our possession. Good.

Steve wrote:Give them war subsidies?

Sadly, war subsidies are too low by two or three orders of magnitude to be relevant unless you mod them.

Also, we want Austria as intact as possible for the eventual annexation.

To that end, and in the interest of defeating the Jacobin scum, I motion we aid our little Austrian brothers.

Annexing Austria by event can only be done with Hungary detached IIRC.

The USA will obviously honour the Mexican territorial integri- BWAHAHA, who am I kidding?

What? It could happen. I mean we didn't deliberately provoke ALL our foreign wars...

Look at the bottom of the LP, specifically this picture:

Immediately after annexing Texas the USA started the Mexican-American war.

Sorry, my cynicism didn't carry through very well. I'm hard-pressed to think of more than a handful of wars where we actually were fighting to defend ourselves (or an ally) against an aggressor nation. Offhand I count the Civil War, World War 1 (maybe...we didn't really NEED to get involved), definitely World War 2 and Korea, possibly Vietnam...maybe a couple others I missed. We clearly started the the war for Independence, the war of 1812, the Mexican, Spanish, and Philippine wars, the various Indian wars (our track record with treaties sucks pretty badly too), and of course the Iraqi wars.

So, par the course for every major country in the 19th century.

Thanas wrote:So, par the course for every major country in the 19th century.

One could argue that the US is still stuck in the 19th century in some ways.

Edit - don't want to take this thread on a tangent, but it might be an interesting discussion to see how the US, as a relatively young country, might have some growing up to do yet.