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Soontir C'boath wrote:I cannot seem to find anything about it, but if it is anything like shoplifting detainment, they will just be charged with vandalism and theft of services.

I was more thinking that if you locked people in your cab for non-payment that they may sue your company for kidnapping or some such nonsense. I figured the charges against the people not paying and/or damaging your cab would be obvious.

All this talk about a digital payment system and we are leaving out the basic form. Cash. Not everyone has a credit card or even a bank account.

Just install a vending machine style bill read and change slot and that problem is solved.

Jub wrote:Just install a vending machine style bill read and change slot and that problem is solved.

While adding another problem: People robbing the G-cabs for the cash they carry because they don't have drivers in them who will resist.

bilateralrope wrote:

Jub wrote:Just install a vending machine style bill read and change slot and that problem is solved.

While adding another problem: People robbing the G-cabs for the cash they carry because they don't have drivers in them who will resist.

If you make it as hard to rob as a vending machine or an atm then you can make it unlikely they'd get very far with that before the police could arrive. Plus, unlike in the case where the cab held somebody within itself for an unpaid fare, I think you could make escaping with the cash pretty hard if you just had the cab keep driving until police could pull it over and arrest the crook.

Well, since google has no problem charging me for the apps I buy for my phone, I doubt it will have problems charging me for the fare I ordered with my phone (You'll probably need an App to call the cab).

Are you really thinking that there will be any form of payment happening inside the cab? Why should they. There will be no flagging down the cab on the sidewalk - they will be pre-ordered (probably pre-paid, as well) and won't stop for random people.

Indeed, including any means of cash payment is a waste of time. Cash at the consumer level is overdue for obsolescence.

I think you could make escaping with the cash pretty hard if you just had the cab keep driving until police could pull it over and arrest the crook.

Or just have the cab drive straight to the police station?

What do regular cab drives do to ensure payment for their services? Legally and not the obvious physically stopping the person?

If Tesco can use a computer that allows people to pay in cash, I don't see why a computerized taxi couldn't do the same. At best, it will just ask for money up front and won't open the door (to let you in) until you pay.

LaCroix wrote:Are you really thinking that there will be any form of payment happening inside the cab? Why should they. There will be no flagging down the cab on the sidewalk - they will be pre-ordered (probably pre-paid, as well) and won't stop for random people.

If Google's overall goal is to only have driver-less cars on the road and it looks like they want to do so by 2030, getting rid of taxis would be a good part of it. (Sorry, Rawshark) It looks like their cars can recognize when a bicyclist use turn signals. It probably wouldn't be farfetch for it to recognize when someone gestures to hail a cab. Competing with Uber frankly sounds like it is just one of the easier parts of what they plan to do as a whole.

Lagmonster wrote:Indeed, including any means of cash payment is a waste of time. Cash at the consumer level is overdue for obsolescence.

Sadly the infrastructure just doesn't seem to be there yet. The card-swipe attachment for a smartphone is convenient, but I know the vendors at cons I go to prefer cash because the credit card companies take a bite out of their earnings for the privileged.

Jub wrote:

bilateralrope wrote:

Jub wrote:Just install a vending machine style bill read and change slot and that problem is solved.

While adding another problem: People robbing the G-cabs for the cash they carry because they don't have drivers in them who will resist.

If you make it as hard to rob as a vending machine or an atm then you can make it unlikely they'd get very far with that before the police could arrive.

Part of what keeps the cash in a vending machine secure is in the area around the vending machine. Things that aren't an option when the crook calls the cab to his chosen location. With a stolen phone.

Plus, unlike in the case where the cab held somebody within itself for an unpaid fare, I think you could make escaping with the cash pretty hard if you just had the cab keep driving until police could pull it over and arrest the crook.

Unless the crook decides to slash the tires, or do something else to imobolise the cab before getting in. Probably damage that will be expensive to repair.

Darmalus wrote:

Lagmonster wrote:Indeed, including any means of cash payment is a waste of time. Cash at the consumer level is overdue for obsolescence.

Sadly the infrastructure just doesn't seem to be there yet. The card-swipe attachment for a smartphone is convenient, but I know the vendors at cons I go to prefer cash because the credit card companies take a bite out of their earnings for the privileged.

Why do I need a card swipe attachment?

If I have an Android, I am registered for android market - or else I wouldn't be able tto download the app - so they already have my card data to deduct payments.
If I have an IPhone, I'm probably registered for App Store.

They already have your data - using the app to pay the cab will work the same as an in-app buy. No extra card swipe needed.

LaCroix wrote:

Darmalus wrote:

Lagmonster wrote:Indeed, including any means of cash payment is a waste of time. Cash at the consumer level is overdue for obsolescence.

Sadly the infrastructure just doesn't seem to be there yet. The card-swipe attachment for a smartphone is convenient, but I know the vendors at cons I go to prefer cash because the credit card companies take a bite out of their earnings for the privileged.

Why do I need a card swipe attachment?

If I have an Android, I am registered for android market - or else I wouldn't be able tto download the app - so they already have my card data to deduct payments.
If I have an IPhone, I'm probably registered for App Store.

They already have your data - using the app to pay the cab will work the same as an in-app buy. No extra card swipe needed.

I wasn't speaking about the g-cab specifically, since I think that would be paid in advance via app. I was talking more as a general case about cash.

One problem with trying to pay with cash is that the machine might not recognize the bill. How many times has someone tried to put a dollar bill into a vending machine only for it to spit it back out? Not everyone has pristine, crisp bank notes.

Also, do the g-cabs recognize sudden changes on the road and avoid it? Would it be able to detect large potholes, sinkholes, a bridge that suddenly washed out? The last thing a passenger needs is to have a panic attack as the cab drives off a washed out bridge.

RogueIce wrote:

andrewgpaul wrote:Do taxis in your areas charge by time? The black cabs here (and in London, I think), charge mainly by distance, with an additional time-based component when the taxi is stationary.

The NYC Taxis are not the only ones, of course, but they are the most famous so I'll use them as an example.

http://www.nyc.gov/html/tlc/html/passen ... rate.shtml

And it would appear that they charge mostly by distance, only using time when the cab is stationary or in "slow traffic" whatever that means.

That's how it works here, too. It switches over from distance to time if the vehicle moves at less than 15mph for longer than a minute, specifically.

Zixinus wrote:What do regular cab drives do to ensure payment for their services? Legally and not the obvious physically stopping the person?

Depending on how much money is involved, I usually don't do anything to ensure payment. Sometimes I'll demand money up front if the trip is unusually long or the customer seems sketchy, but that usually kills my tips because people find it insulting, and the amount I gain from tips far exceeds the amount I lose to thieves in the long run.

That's how it works here, too. It switches over from distance to time if the vehicle moves at less than 15mph for longer than a minute, specifically.

Meter does that automatically?

Borgholio wrote:

That's how it works here, too. It switches over from distance to time if the vehicle moves at less than 15mph for longer than a minute, specifically.

Meter does that automatically?

Yep. Most red lights won't trigger it, but if I get stuck in traffic that resembles a parking lot or have to wait for some dumbass to go shopping or run into their house to get my money or something it gives me $0.25/minute.

Well, it makes sense to have something like that. Especially in urban areas known for congestion. You run into some dickhead who thinks he can save himself a few blocks' walk for a buck or two, you don't need to get screwed when it takes 20 minutes to drive 2 km....

Raw Shark wrote:Yep. Most red lights won't trigger it, but if I get stuck in traffic that resembles a parking lot or have to wait for some dumbass to go shopping or run into their house to get my money or something it gives me $0.25/minute.

So you are making almost double minimum wage, just sitting around? Waiting for somebody seems to be the most profitable part of your job.

LaCroix wrote:

Raw Shark wrote:Yep. Most red lights won't trigger it, but if I get stuck in traffic that resembles a parking lot or have to wait for some dumbass to go shopping or run into their house to get my money or something it gives me $0.25/minute.

So you are making almost double minimum wage, just sitting around? Waiting for somebody seems to be the most profitable part of your job.

To the contrary, the most profitable part of my job is when I am moving quickly. At maximum legal highway speeds I make about 9x as much as I do while I'm waiting, and even driving at 20mph triples it. Cab drivers don't like waiting. $15/hour only sounds like a lot until you factor in my ridiculous overhead; I need to gross better than that, on average, to have a net profit that is in excess of minimum wage.

Yeah, if nothing else you're burning a a respectable chunk of a gallon of gas an hour, even idling. I'm not sure what else is involved in your overhead. You'd need to get your car maintained and serviced very often because you could easily be driving scores (I'd actually guess 100 to 200 or more) miles a day.

Simon_Jester wrote:Yeah, if nothing else you're burning a a respectable chunk of a gallon of gas an hour, even idling. I'm not sure what else is involved in your overhead. You'd need to get your car maintained and serviced very often because you could easily be driving scores (I'd actually guess 100 to 200 or more) miles a day.

Most cab drivers at my company pay about $100/day to the management (hybrids, vans, and cars with the airport tags cost $10-25/day more; some of us who've been there a long time and have a good record have a slightly better deal), which covers the rent and insurance on the vehicle, routine maintenance, and mechanical break-downs. I don't pay for any damage that can verifiably be blamed on and billed to somebody else, but if I damage it myself or don't catch the culprit that costs me extra. Gas runs me anywhere from $10-40/day, depending on how much I drive and current prices. I also try to set aside something for the IRS every day so I'm not caught with my pants down in April, and there are yearly payments to the Department of Excise & License, the City Tax Treasury, the DOT Doctor, etc, and incidentals like cleaning supplies, but not counting all that, that's about $125/day on average to be a cab driver in this town. Assuming that I don't work more than 12 hours/day, the legal limit, that means I have to clear at least $10.41/hour to make a profit, so if I spend a full hour sitting around with the meter running for some clown and they don't tip me, I just made $4.59 before taxes.

Thank you. That was quite informative.

No worries. I've never actually done the math on this before because I'm lazy, but that means that a typical full-time driver who is in possession of the vehicle 24/7 would have to consistently gross over $21.87/hour at work, which is highly unlikely if he's not doing anything illegal, to be profitable while living a semi-normal life where he works for 8 hours/day 5 days/week.

One wonders if any of the Uber drivers have figured this out then...

Uber's on an entirely different pricing model. I don't have personal experience, but from what I hear they bill you for the distance (multiplied by whatever they want based on current demand because fuck regulations and consumers in the ear, right?) before you get in. I'd imagine that their guys hate waiting even more than I do.