StarDestroyer.Net BBS

I have a problem:

See the "spinal cord" I've added? I made it with the intention of putting a laser cannon in each notch, like the Abaddon has on the sides, but I'm worried about how firing arcs in Eve work.

If you made a ship like that in game, would your laser beam PASS THROUGH your own wing, or is EVE's firing arc system more intelligent than that, as in, if something flies behind that wing, it can't be fired at with those guns?

Anyone know? It occurs to me that there may be a reason that there aren't any ships with giant, oddly shaped protrusions between their weapons and their target.

I'm worried that they may like the design, but decide against it because it can't be properly implemented, in which case I should scrap the spinal cord idea, or not do laser cannons in those sockets, in which case it's odd that they correspond so closely to the shapes on the Abaddon, which I might be copying too closely already...

EVE mirrors turrets so to simulate a ship having 360 degree arc of fire, at some point a separate turret will engage the enemy. Basically every time you put a weapon on a ship, you put two turrets somewhere, even in random asymmetrical positions (Like the freaking Harbinger's awkward as hell left nostril turret)

You can compensate by having a shadowed turret be opposite of the shield, and have a different turret covering the blind spots that'll fire when the first turret is out of arc.

Finishing up the Armor. Next the innards...


I'm abandoning the spinal cord in favor of turrets on each wing.

Oh wow. Could you post a bigger picture of that? That thing is sweeeeeet, even in this unfinished state.

Bigger version of the last image.
http://crossovercomic.com/media/extras/ ... p01_16.jpg
Also there is a bit of a red haze that I'm going to increase to try to add a sense of depth and scale.

Thanks for the words of encouragement
I want to do a bit more work on the color of the armor, but I think the hull plate bump map is done, though I'm gonna tone down the heavy border a bit and save it for the orthos.

Update:

Much Bigger:
http://crossovercomic.com/media/extras/ ... p01_19.jpg

Wow. That... That looks elegant, even magical. The big, big, big plus is how it manages to be asymmetrical without actually looking unbalanced - like the engines are actually going to be pushing it balancedly along it's axis of flight, instead of the bizzare and irregular clusters of engines on the Gallente and other ships in EvE. I always thought that made them look very wrong.

I, for one, hope that this design makes it. You put a lot of effort into it and it's very beautiful. I'd fly it, if I flew Amarr. Begs the question just what it's for, though. It doesn't look much bigger than a cruiser.

It may be a bit too yellow yet, but I'm about done with the armor.



Bigger:http://crossovercomic.com/media/extras/ ... 1_r_23.jpg

I have 6 sockets for large turrets. How many small turrets should I have?

Holy wow.

That's just, um... Wow. That would be absolutely at home in some kind of Exalted in Space RPG. Hell, the symbol on the front of it kind of looks like a Dawn-Caste symbol.

It's heart-rendingly beautiful. And, once the guns fire up, I imagine body-, hull- and quite possibly soul-rendingly beautiful, too.

You better watch out when you put the turrets and details on, ShadowDragons head will probably explode.

I imagine you just fill in the slots you left on the wings for turrets, and then a smattering around the body to cover likely firing angles. If it did get picked, they'd have to go over it and set it up to suit the game and normal stats for this size of ship, so it wouldn't make a vast difference what you pick now.

Ha-Ha, K-10-B. Ha-ha.

I'm wondering where he's planning on putting the turrets - on the wings seems probable, as thanks to having rotational symmetry, either bank of turrets would have line of sight at any given time under most conditions, which is 'good enough' for EvE, a game in which plowing headfirst through an asteroid or space station does no damage whatsoever.

It's not a game I ever got into, it was just too convoluted and slow. As you say it's also something of a moot point when you worry over weapons placement and firing arcs, but the game engine allows you to fly through solid stuff when it needs to.

Fuzzy_Modem -

I don't know how familiar you are with the universe, but EVE ships don't have "sized" turret slots, exactly. Any turret slot can fit a turret depending on the ship size and power grid and CPU available. Frigate/destroyer type ships can only fit small turrets, cruisers/battlecruisers can fit small or medium turrets (generally will only fit mediums), battleships can fit small/medium/large turrets (generally only fit large). Six turrets is reasonable number for a cruiser that's a pure gunboat. You might even go as high as seven on a cruiser hull but most cruisers wouldn't have the powergrid or CPU to mount seven decent-sized medium turrets. Fewer guns if the ship also has missile launchers or a significant drone capability.

Mixing size and ranges of guns is generally considered sub-optimal in EVE. You won't see many cruiser fits that have a mix of different medium turrets, much less medium and small turrets.

I like the design, but damnit, the Amarr already have plenty of cool-looking ships. Gallente need a good-looking drone/gunship in my completely and unabashedly biased opinion.

*EDIT* Realized some of my statements don't make sense. To clarify, turrets have a range in each category. "Lighter" medium turrets will have a shorter range, lower power/CPU requirements, and faster tracking speed than "heavier" medium turrets. The heavier turrets will hit harder and at longer range but fire less often and usually won't track close-in targets as well. Probably more information than you needed for your project, though.

Thanks for the info

Upon further consideration, I will do something else with the big round sockets I created (any suggestions?) and place 8 turrets here:


That's two more turrets than this command ship: http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Damnation

So my command ship will be a little beefier, but then, I think it's a bit longer too, not sure. Can't find a length on that^ ship...


[edit] I may reduce the turrets to 6 (removing 1 from the longer side of each wing.) The Abaddon: http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Abaddon has 8, as do most of the other battleships (which are 25% to 50% longer than the max) and I wanted this to be a command ship instead...

[edit]
I'm now thinking I'll model more of the greebles and noonies and rely on a bump map less. I can then re-use those bits for the second submission I'm still hoping to finish before the deadline.
[edit]
Now considering this configuration.


Note that the turrets have all rotated 90 degrees. I believe this will provide better coverage, as you can see here:

Fuzzy_Modem wrote:That's two more turrets than this command ship: http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Damnation

Each turret hardpoint takes up two external turrets. Each pair of external turrets should be placed to give full coverage (only one of the pair will fire at a time, even if both have line of sight), though I have seen CCP designed ships with turrets firing through the ship.

So with the 8 visible turret points, you only have 4 turret hardpoints.

I'd suggest designing the ship so that it will look good no matter how many (or few) turrets CCP gives it.

But this one has a HUGE turret for some reason:
http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr26 ... nation.jpg

That's what happens when someone sticks an XL (Dreadnought sized) weapon on a battleship.

It's also a shop, since that red stripe isn't on the actual Abbadon and even if you have enough grid, the game won't let you fit an XL on a sub-capital.

On-topic, however, fantastic look, that really goes out of its way to demonstrate to CCP how to make asymmetry look good.

bilateralrope wrote:

Fuzzy_Modem wrote:That's two more turrets than this command ship: http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Damnation

Each turret hardpoint takes up two external turrets. Each pair of external turrets should be placed to give full coverage (only one of the pair will fire at a time, even if both have line of sight), though I have seen CCP designed ships with turrets firing through the ship.

So with the 8 visible turret points, you only have 4 turret hardpoints.

I'd suggest designing the ship so that it will look good no matter how many (or few) turrets CCP gives it.

But this one has a HUGE turret for some reason:
http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr26 ... nation.jpg

That's what happens when someone sticks an XL (Dreadnought sized) weapon on a battleship.

Ahhh! Cool. Thanks

I'll double the number of turrets you see above.

[edit]
Questions, thoughts and clarifications:

My ship will be 980 meters long. It's function will be very similar to that of this ship:
http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Absolution
But it's three times the size, and will have two additional turrets for a total of 16 visible, 8 hard point slots.

Is there any precedent for a command ship that big and powerful? Keep in mind, the only thing I'm putting on the submission is the length, I don't even think I'll add any other text. It occurs to me that the more I let the judges fill in the blanks for themselves, the more they may like it, but at the same time I'm trying to keep a purpose in mind while designing to achieve a sense of logic and cohesion.

I may mount rocket launchers below the nose and above the neck.

I'm considering adding giant airlock shapes in the big sockets. Is this cannon? Is there any point in the game where smaller ships might dock with me? Or move behind the shield of my wings? Say, for repair? Or is it done more as a tractor beam style "healing" effect?

I ask because I'm about to start modeling the detail along the wings and in the... armpit, and I'm wondering if I should add mooring clamps and umbilicals and such.

I'll be reducing the yellow-gold color to more of a beige-gold, and the darker under texture is meant to be quite dark as it is merely the cracks between detail that I've decided to model rather than texture. The lights will also come up a bit once I turn my fake GI rig back on. It's off now for quick rendering purposes, and I have a simple shadow-less ambient in it's place, which gives my nooks and crannies that low contrast ugliness.

Windows.


bigger: http://crossovercomic.com/media/extras/ ... 1_r_24.jpg

Are the windows modeled or image mapped?

Kenny_10_Bellys wrote:Are the windows modeled or image mapped?

They are ten polys each with a texture, I've made a variety of sizes, then I have "floors" which are 20-40 polys and have a row of windows, and then I have "double floors", which are the largest windows you see at the nose.

The windows make it look a bit smaller than 1 k don't they?... and if I want it to be a command ship, and they use cruiser hulls, and I'm trying to remain cannon... it should be smaller anyway...

Maybe it's more like 300-400 meters?

I have "double floors" on the struts that connect the wings to the body too. If i replace them with singles, it should look at least a little larger.

[edit]
Y'know if it were smaller, it would move more nimbly too wouldn't it? It seems like it ought to... swoop.

If you're wanting this to be a command ship, I can sort of imagine the wings being used as pylons for the gang links these ships are designed to fit. I mean, there would need to be space for all the advanced computation and broadcasting equipment necessary to upgrade all the fleet members' defences and firepower.

I'm curious to know how you envision the functionality of the wings. I know that it's largely aesthetics at this point, but I'm genuinely curious.

"Healing" on EVE is done through beams, either shield transporters or armor repairers. No need for airlocks or umbilicals to connect ships to each other.

As for the firepower, 8 (16) turrets + 2 rocket launchers is way too much. No sub-capital (and as far as I'm aware no capital) ship has more than 8 "high-power" slots, which includes turrets and missile bays. You may also want to check the EVE items database to see if gang-link modules require a high-power slot; off the top of my head I want to say that they do, and if so, you wouldn't be able to fit 8 (16) turrets + a gang-link module on the ship.

Command ships are based off of battlecruiser hulls, so if you're looking at something significantly larger than that you may want to change the role -- I can't see one faction getting a command ship significantly bigger and tougher than everyone else's equivalent.

Honestly, I agree the ship would look more appropriate as a smaller vessel -- I'd even say a cruiser hull rather than a battlecruiser, but then it wouldn't be a command ship.

Prannon wrote:
I'm curious to know how you envision the functionality of the wings. I know that it's largely aesthetics at this point, but I'm genuinely curious.

Well, with all the blisters and pointys I have planned, I think all the electronic warfare devices, shields, and sensors, are housed in the wings. Generally the Amarr pointys face backwards, but I think I'm gonna break the mold in that respect.

I'll also put 4 large airlocks at the tips of the wings, with some inward pointing "pier" structures in the armpit.

Jaevric wrote: Honestly, I agree the ship would look more appropriate as a smaller vessel -- I'd even say a cruiser hull rather than a battlecruiser, but then it wouldn't be a command ship.

I think I'm going smaller. Maybe 550 meters.

Done modeling. On to photoshop.

Much, much bigger:
http://crossovercomic.com/media/extras/ ... FD_01f.jpg

Anyone see anything that isn't in compliance with contest specifications?

Final suggestions in terms of color and layout?

Thanks for the help thus far