SD.Net in The Sea Of Time

[open_sketchbook]

Because these scenarios always go over the same friggin' ground over and over again,(The teenagers will suck! We'll all die within a week of disease! Lets make guns!) I propose that once we get our shit together so we won't just die, we take all the Navy types and everyone willing to not suck, pile onto the Eagle, and sail over to the Mediterranean so we can start fucking with people and be pirates in our futureship. Sure, it's not necessary or smart and there isn't much to steal, but fuck it, we have an opportunity to lord our technology over stupid people from the past. I say we boat our shit around looking high and mighty, and claim we are atheist envoys of the Gods and make everyone worship us and our mighty logic.

[KrauserKrauser]

Ok, this seems like a more survivable setting for a RAR lets get some facts on the selected teleported location:

Nantucket Island

About 47.8 square miles of land with two adjoining islands of Tuckernuck and Muskeget.

Fresh water supplies:

Hummock Pond which should be bigger than it currently is now, a blizzard in 1978 reduced its size.

Miacomet Pond is 28 feet at the deepest point but sometimes opens to the sea which may spoil it as fresh drinking water

Housing:

According to the last census there are 9210 housing units on the island which would be more than enough for every resident of the board and then some.

The island also has several schools that would also contain valuable materials in any science labs as well as general construction materials (2 private, 1 elementary, 1 middle, 1 high school, 1 community "college")

There is also a three runway airport on the island as it is the busiest in the state, there should be plenty of aircraft either in storage or stuck there during the 'port. Alot of these planes will be either private business jets or 10 seat Cessnas.

The island is serviced by the Nantucket Regional Transit Authority so there will be busses available as well as I assume a service yard and fuel dump for these busses. More tools and fuel.

While it is unclear how much line still exists on the island there was at one point a railway operating on the island.

There are three commercial ferries that service the island but the OP does not specify whether or not they are coming with us.

Three lighthouses operate on the island which should help us on any fishing or exploration expeditions.

Farms are found on the island, just some cursory googling found some relatively sizeable commercial farming operations with modern equipment. Unknown about the fuel status but there should be enough to sustain us.

Some relevant facts about the area during that time period.

Cod will literally be leaping out the water to be caught. There were so many cod in the Grand Banks that it took hundreds of years of constant heavy fishing in the area by basically everyone in Europe that could get a boat out there to exhaust the supply. With the number of boats available to us by porting Nantucket island with us everyone person could have their own boat and fish enough to feed everyone and then some. Hopefully there exists a modern salt plant on the island, doubtful, so that we can jump start the salt cod industry by a couple hundred years.

If Cod isn't your the number and size of the Oysters that are available to us in the New York harbor will blow your mind. Not only that but the New York island area would be a great expanision point. Shielded from the weather and basically amazing if the tales are true, New York is my vote for settling site #2.

All in all I think this is one of the more survivable and enjoyable RARs. I don't see any evidence of a nuke plant on island but that would be a nice addition to help longeivty of power generation. Maybe make Q install the proposed 23 square mile Wind power plant they are trying to build.

[Havok]

Do we get all the vehicles and fuel and such that would be on Nantucket? If so, there has to be a Harley somewhere, or better yet, on of those sport off roading tourers from BMW. (although, I can't work on one of those)

I grab one, as much fuel as I can carry, some guns and ammo set off on a ferry to the mainland and see who wants to go ride around a completely unspoiled north America. The more the merrier. If someone wants to go but follow in a chase vehicle with extra fuel and parts that would be even better.

[KrauserKrauser]

Well since roads don't exist outside of the island and most of the Northeast along the coast is going to be woodlands, I hope you like picking splinters out of your teeth because you'll be running into a lot of trees.

More google mapping reveals 4 golf courses that could supply electric carts, 2 main harbors with some very large luxury yachts some of which hopefully are of the sailing variety, 2 main farming areas and something labeled as a Navy base that looks like it consists of 2 baseball field and a tennis court.

Overall the amount of resources that could be salvaged from gutting some of the mansions on the island would probably be quite significant and the sheer number of boats that are available to us is a great boon to our survivability.

There is a brewery, distillery and vineyard on the island so that is already covered. There are also at least 2 hospitals, 1 library, 2 vet hospitals, 1 radio station, 1 storage yard and a plethora of building companies.

I could not find any listings for a gun store other than a proposed gun range that may or may not actually exist now. Police stations should provide a nice amount of fire power in addition to whatever can be found in the residences. This is not the South however so reloading equipment may be a bit scarce. The Coast Guard cutter should provide ample defense but I don't see us mounting any major offensives any time soon.

I could also not find any evidence of a foundry other than a listing for an Art Foundry so who knows what smelting capabilites the island will have. My guess is we will be lucky to find any blacksmithing facilities whatsoever and any that we will find will be for touristy randomness and not ready to be scaled into anything more industrial.

[Coyote]

The Coast Guard Cutter Eagle is actually an officer's training ship, so I don't believe it is armed. It's a three-masted tall ship built in the 1930's. At most it'll have a small arms locker for a handful of pistols, rifles and shotguns.

IIRC the naval base at Nantucket was from WW2, and used for U-boat patrols, so I think it is long gone. There might be a small Naval Reserve or Coast Guard Reserve post, but there'd be slim pickings for weapons. Mostly useful for the electronics there.

You're right about the availability of boats, and as for the aircraft we have at least two pilots on board I can think of right now, one civilian and one military. So we'll get some use out of the aircraft, even.

As for a cross-country motorcycle trip, I'd be up for it but we'd need dirt bikes. There's got to be at least a few of them on the island, that or ATVs. I hope someone has a Ural, heheh! But it'd be a good way to scout the mainland area.

I wonder if we could make a ethanol fuel from fermented plant mash and experiment with some of the engines to get them to run off of stills, like in that game Twilight2000...

Our biggest goal would be getting some wimminfolk from the locals. Peaceful trade can go a long way for this, and we'd have a lot to trade. We'd have to establish a steady relationship with a coastal tribe and stay on good terms with them. A side effect might be interesting-- if they pick up our diseases (just like the first European explorers spread in unaltered history) they'd have time for pandemics to ripple through their society, and then spring back and develop immunities, so that when the REAL Europeans arrive a millennia later they'll find a Indian population that isn't so easily decimated with a few sneezes and coughs.

Also, I assume we'd have time for telling the locals where all the nifty ores and minerals are buried, and train them in some early tech. If Nantucket has any horses on it, we're way ahead of the game.

[Darth Wong]

Whoa, the island still has all of the modern technology and infrastructure on it? I thought the idea was that the island would be completely reverted to its natural state, except for the ship sitting off-shore.

[Nieztchean Uber-Amoeba]

Modern island, complete with all the tools, motorbikes, and industrial lathes to be found.

[Alferd Packer]

Whoa, the island still has all of the modern technology and infrastructure on it? I thought the idea was that the island would be completely reverted to its natural state, except for the ship sitting off-shore.

I had had the same idea. In light of this, however, with the availability of food in grocery stores, restaurant freezers, and private homes, as well, as the ease of fishing, we should have enough food and water to get us through at least one winter. the first priority we would have is clear: use what fuel is available to build a means of generating electricity. Nantucket gets its electricity (and presumably its municipal gas) from the mainland, so I'd imagine if we dredged up the line, we'd find it neatly severed.

With that in mind, first major decision the community would have to make is what to build. Unfortunately, the wind farm they're proposing for Nantucket isn't anywhere near built yet, so we'd probably have to start from scratch. Initially, the scale would have to be small--modifying portable generators with scavenged components to run off of woodgas, for example. This would at least give us the electrical energy we need to power initial industrial ventures, as well as the distillery to create liquid fuel(ethanol/methanol) for agricultural vehicles. From there, it should be possible to build a larger power generation facility, assuming the precision tools and metals are available to build a steam turbine. Once we have a decent surplus of energy, we can start expanding in just about any way we want.

[KrauserKrauser]

Well there are basics that we are going to need.

Fresh water - Solved through the ponds on the island and possibly desalinzation of the surrounding ocean. I'm not aware of any desalinization plants on the island but if present that should provide ample water.

Salt - Well ideally we would be able to scrounge up schematics for modern salt production processes. Simply being able to trade endless quantities of salt makes us king of the world tradegood wise. Kingdoms have been made based on the ability to create salt and using modern processes we can make huge amounts of salt on demand. I don't know if the library would have any schematics for a salt making machine but our plethora of engineers should be able to cobble something together and then scale up as necessary.

Food - Well fish is so plentiful we could feed the entire world with salted codfish for a while so we could get as much fish based protien as necessary. We should also have seed and plants for all of the modern food staples.

Probably no tropical fruit trees to grow from but hopefully some Sugar Beets, Potatoes, Cabbage, Corn, Sweet Potatoes, Beets, Radishes, Melons, Squahes, Apples and others for days but I don't see us having Pineapples, Bananas, Oranges, Sugar Cane, Lemons, Limes and other such from down south will not be able to be grown. While there is a chance that these have been cultivated by the indigenous populations we should have more than enough variety for sustainability and hopefully a stockpile of seed.

Grain is somewhat questionable as I would think Nantucket is not the best place to grow it. We can always make do with potatoes. The lack of citrus may be a problem to combat scurvy but I'm sure there are other ways to get around it.

Further googling reveals multiple horse stables as well as the Nantucket SPCA that has a farm wing that should make Dogs, Cats, Rabbits, Guinea pigs, Donkeys, Mules, Goats, Sheep, Pigs, Chicken, Geese and Ducks available to us. There is also mention of Cow milking available in the area so Dairy cows as well as Beef cattle should be available.

Shelter - We not only have huge houses to live but a ton of them as well. More than likely the largest houses should be canabalized with most of the population living in the outskirts of the city of Nantucket proper.

Protection from Invasion - Well small arms should be enough to ward off any native incursions but for anything major we will need to consult with Marina/Shep/Mess for the easiest defensive options as the mainland is most decidedly not going to be tame.

Also the natives are going to die horribly from our modern diseases unless we innoculate and even then we are only going to be able to effect the surrounding tribes. More than likely the rest of the continent will experience the same die off as in OTL. I view it as inevitbale and we can gain the support of the local tribes by having them see everyone that doesn't accept our help die off in droves. We definitely don't want to do anything to increase the rate of infection but we can only do so much with what we have.

I am enjoying this RAR more and more and the idea of settling on a pristine New York sounds like tons of fun.

Also even if we are all dead at the time we can send a team of scientists to Bethlehem in 1250 years to check things out.

[Darth Wong]

I would expect the early period to be dominated by reckless looting and tomfoolery, as a group of people, largely teenagers, fan out into an area full of luxury homes and shopping systems with no law. Those of us calling for order and responsibility would probably be ignored for quite a while, until considerable damage is done and resources are wasted. Young men would probably get boats and canoes from local sporting goods stores to grant mobility to the mainland where they can get women, since there will be a shortage of women. Some of the more stupid assholes on the forum will probably loot liquor and beer, and get falling-down drunk all the time. I suppose that if we were lucky, we'd be able to get the people on the forum who happen to be cops and quickly form up some kind of law and order, but for all we know, some of the assholes would be determined enough to take up arms and cause violence if anyone tries to limit their freedom.

[PeZook]

I would expect the early period to be dominated by reckless looting and tomfoolery, as a group of people, largely teenagers, fan out into an area full of luxury homes and shopping systems with no law. Those of us calling for order and responsibility would probably be ignored for quite a while, until considerable damage is done and resources are wasted. Young men would probably get boats and canoes from local sporting goods stores to grant mobility to the mainland where they can get women, since there will be a shortage of women. Some of the more stupid assholes on the forum will probably loot liquor and beer, and get falling-down drunk all the time. I suppose that if we were lucky, we'd be able to get the people on the forum who happen to be cops and quickly form up some kind of law and order, but for all we know, some of the assholes would be determined enough to take up arms and cause violence if anyone tries to limit their freedom.

That, I think, is the single biggest problem we face: getting things under control, without unnecessary bloodshed. The situation would probably develop along the lines described above: I, personally, think that the core of people who care for long-term survival should simply form a government of some sort and band together immediately. Those who are willing to work with society will fall into line then, and all the troublemakers can be dealt with as the situation permits, once we have secured supplies and shelter to last us the first winter.

The worst thing is, of course, the disturbing American tendency to keep weapons at home: this means that any stupid asshole who wants to cause trouble could have access to firearms, and thus could conceivably threaten the more ordered groups as they forage for canned goods and such. Thus, the initial, orderly core group would need to find a safe spot of some sorts, like a police station or similar easily fortified building. We'd store supplies there, make plans and ascertain the situation (how many people are there? Which areas are safe, which are not? Any groups forming?)

Then we'd need to secure cooperation from everyone who can be persuaded to join without violence, then eventually bring the hardcore troublemakers in line.

When we finally bring order to the island, we'll start running into problems of dumbasses who ran off into the mainland in order to get themselves some wimmin, possibly pissing the natives off in the process. Women won't actually be much of a problem if we can get on the good side of some tribe or another: those who want a wife can then woo them as we would any other gal. Except by local standards, we'd be the equivalent of filthy stinking rich millionairres.

That's after a horrible wave of disease sweeps over the mainland, though. We may not exactly be welcomed after that, and we shouldn't underestimate the natives: a rifle won't protect you from getting stabbed in the dark or shot from the brush when on patrol, and there's only 4000 of us (well, there will be less because of the initial chaos).

[Coyote]

The first order of business would obviously to go door-to-door and round up any weapons that can be found as soon as possible; I think a lot of us (the more responsible ones) would do it without waiting for any sort of government to form. A number of the military and police-trained types would probably do such a thing out of instinct; teaming up with responsible civilians can greatly increase coverage.

Oddly enough, I doubt we'd get too many people who want to play with guns-- I think most of the wildness would be the liquor store looting first and foremost. I'm actually willing to let that pass in order to round up weapons quickly: let the troublemakers drink themselves into a stupor. When they wake up, most of the weapons will be secured in the police station (or a National Guard armory if there is one).

[Crayz9000]

A Stirling cycle engine should be a lot more reliable than a steam boiler, plus it can run on practically any heat source (wood, coal, bigass mirror, etc). All we have to do is gear the output appropriately to run an alternator from a traditional generator, and we have temporary power that'll last long enough to get more permanent power stations built.

Also, given the relative non-existance of tropical fruits, including citrus fruit, we would need to use some of our cabbage harvest to turn into sauerkraut for the vitamin C to prevent scurvy during the winter. I'd imagine that cabbage, pickles, and other preserved foods should be a high priority anyway for storage, at least until we can get the local power grid back up and running for the refrigerators on the island.

Oh, yeah... while we're going house to house... empty out the refrigerators, otherwise they'll become unusable within a week or two from all the moldy food. Burying trash and spoiled food should also be somewhat of a priority to prevent wild animals from running amok.

[PeZook]

Thing is, manpower is limited. Scouring even a small town to the point of painstakingly securing every house, clearing the fridge, assembling and burying the trash, etc. will take a lot of time and manpower. It may be more economical to just secure the guns (so that less people actually die from infighting) as fast as possible, then get on the more complicated stuff.

The small size of the island is both a benefit and a problem. A benefit because we can actually control the place decently well with a small amount of people, a problem because we'll start running into assholes much quicker than we would otherwise.

To introduce some maths: There's about 10 000 permanent residents on the island at this time. With an average household size of 2.59, that's 3860 homes and apartments to search and secure. With a firearm ownership rate of 38%, that's at least 1467 guns to physically remove from these homes and secure. A National Guard armory would be really, really useful here. I doubt we could stock this many guns at a police station

Let's assume that the initial group is about a hundred posters who agree to work in concert and take orders. We could expect most of this group to include the MESS - whatever you say about them, they're the most used to giving and taking orders, know a thing or two about military tactics (I hope they do ), so even without any sort of due process, they'd take to leading the group naturally.

So we'd need a few people to keep our chosen building secure, and then form groups to scavenge the guns. One person can carry, what...ten rifles? I'm not sure, but let's assume ten.

So, 3860 homes (at least). If the average time to search a home and move to the next one is 20 minutes, and we send 80 people out, they can search 1800 homes during one 10-hour excursion.

So, accounting for other factors like unexpected trouble, we should have most of the dangerous stuff secured in two to three days or so, if we commit all possible manpower to do so. Realistically, though, we'll need to gather some supplies, and there's the need to make trips back and forth with the loot, and the occasional fight which is always a possibility, so it could take as much as a week.

Now think about the kind of problems extending the stay at each house of group of houses will take, especially if you want to bury all the trash. Which means digging holes.

That's just the first part, of course. The easy one.

[Coyote]

Send out search teams with a pickup truck for each block-- a quick entry by about four people per house-- two secure weapons, two turn off unused appliances to reduce the risk of fires, etc. We can come back for food later, maybe use a refrigerated truck from a grocery store.

Trash can wait, too, and we should separate burnables to provide fuel for a potential generator of some sort. Also metals-- we may reach a point of doing some smelting, who knows?

I don't believe military style defense is going to be too high on the list of priorities. Any natives will probably be more curious than combative; and would they have the ability to go that far out, anyway? The biggest thing we may have to bear in mind is to make sure that some of our few females are with any group that meets them, otherwise an entire tribe of men might make them really wary.

[PeZook]

Send out search teams with a pickup truck for each block-- a quick entry by about four people per house-- two secure weapons, two turn off unused appliances to reduce the risk of fires, etc. We can come back for food later, maybe use a refrigerated truck from a grocery store.

Ah, right - we get cars, too!

We can probably ignore the more remote locations as well, and of course the pickup can be absolutely loaded with weapons. For some reason, I thought of the scenario in a more Fallouty way

Trash can wait, too, and we should separate burnables to provide fuel for a potential generator of some sort. Also metals-- we may reach a point of doing some smelting, who knows?

Separate the metals and burnables, use organic refuse for a compost heap, store plastics for later use. We have a very limited amount of resources, all things considered, we should try to use them as efficiently as possible.

I don't believe military style defense is going to be too high on the list of priorities.Any natives will probably be more curious than combative;

That depends on who makes initial contact and why. If an idiot goes out to the mainland and tries to rule over a tribe thinking his magic boomstick makes him invincible, we may as well find ourselves at war from day 1. And Indian wars were cruel, nasty and tended to create generation long blood feuds that couldn't seem to cease even when white men invaded.

and would they have the ability to go that far out, anyway?

You'd be surprised. Indian tribes had no trouble crossing Lake Michigan in their boats, 30 miles is nothing - after all, the island had some native population before the English displaced them. They had to get there somehow.

The biggest thing we may have to bear in mind is to make sure that some of our few females are with any group that meets them, otherwise an entire tribe of men might make them really wary.

Why? Women in Indian tribes weren't necessarily part of the welcoming comittees. Or politics, for that matter. We could always make up a story later about how a terrible disease struck our once far more numerous tribe (hey, there's an entire island full of strange things, and few people on it. It'd look plausible)

If they weren't antagonized right at the start, we should be able to make friends fast enough. We have enough cool gifts to last us a long time, and just wait untill we start teaching them some awesome stuff.

Or breeding horses. it'd be very easy to get anything they could provide in exchange for horses. In fact, we'd probably make ourselves a target for quite a few tribes who'd want horses, too - again necessitating a military-style defence.

Then there's other stuff, too: every Indian man was a warrior, and their culture was a martial one (with variation, obviously. There were a lot of tribes and cultures). There may come a time when they'll want us to prove our commitment and join them in war against some other, hated tribe. What do we do then?

[Alferd Packer]

If we grant that the the most impetuous amongst the population are going to be teenagers/guys in their early twenties, then we have to also remember that these young men are products of an incredibly coddled and privileged upbringing (compared to, of course, their present situation). Let's say a bunch of them decide to hop in a boat with a case of Jack Daniels and some guns to go get themselves some native women. What then? Are any among them remotely competent in operating a boat in the open ocean? What about firearms? Can they even shoot worth a damn?

Honestly, I think the brashest and dumbest amongst the population will kill themselves in short order. Their boat'll get swamped and they'll drown, they'll crash their car/ATV/motorbike and die of their injuries. Or the natives will enslave or kill them. I'd consider them a non-factor. They can waste resources, certainly, but they lack the foresight to do anything important.

With regards to forming a government, it's probably going to be he who moves quickest. Everyone's going to be cold, scared, and hungry, and the first person or group of people who say(s), "I have a plan, and if we stick to it, we can survive the winter!" will ride a wave of popular acclaim to power.

[Zwinmar]

The Eagle is a sailing ship primarily, the only reason they can use it is because the crew aboard is being trained to use it. So unless one of you actually know how to sail it will take a long time to learn how, not to mention the problem with navigation, etc.

[Crayz9000]

By the way, I'm sure that Nantucket has a few garbage trucks. Not that I'd recommend we empty every single house out, but we should at the very least do so for the ones we want to use and nearby houses. Raccoons, opossums, and rats could wind up being a big problem otherwise.

That got me thinking -- it might actually be more useful to clean out restaurants. Commercial equipment is built much tougher than the consumer stuff and also the walk-in refrigerators and freezers would come in handy once we get power back up.

[MKSheppard]

Oh my god, contribute, what is this spam, lol? IRONY.

I'm sorry, but I can't take seriously a universe in which the distortion event that results in Nantucket being sent back in time to an alternate stone age time also results in the rest of the world that's left behind suddenly finds that gunpowder doesn't work, electricity doesn't work, etc.

If such a profound change of the physical laws of the universe occured, everyone would die horribly; and I don't mean this in the "lol die horribly" sense, but the "we all die horribly with blood running out of every bodily orifice as everything our bodies relied on to work no longer works".

[PeZook]

The Eagle is a sailing ship primarily, the only reason they can use it is because the crew aboard is being trained to use it. So unless one of you actually know how to sail it will take a long time to learn how, not to mention the problem with navigation, etc.

I know how to sail. It will take time and effort, but we could train up a crew for the Eagle in a couple of years based on manuals and some baby steps practical knowledge. Navigation of the immediate area shouldn't be a problem as well: the ship will have basic navigational charts of the immediate area, Of course, the place will be quite different with regards to sand banks, shallows etc, but the shore line woud remain basically the same.

Trying to use the Eagle form the start is stupid, though. Nantucket has a marina: There's gonna be hundreds of small yachts there, so we won't actually have to move the Eagle anywhere untill we get a crew trained and organized. We'll have enough small boats, charts and supplies for them to easily move about the area with little trouble, and means to update the charts with local hazards, so that when we need to take the Eagle out for a stroll, we won't run it aground. Teaching indians the principles of sailing would be another great asset in making friends.

[Darth Wong]

Oh my god, contribute, what is this spam, lol? IRONY.

I'm sorry, but I can't take seriously a universe in which the distortion event that results in Nantucket being sent back in time to an alternate stone age time also results in the rest of the world that's left behind suddenly finds that gunpowder doesn't work, electricity doesn't work, etc.

If such a profound change of the physical laws of the universe occured, everyone would die horribly; and I don't mean this in the "lol die horribly" sense, but the "we all die horribly with blood running out of every bodily orifice as everything our bodies relied on to work no longer works".

Where did anyone say that gunpowder and electricity don't work in the rest of the world in this scenario?

[Morilore]

Where did anyone say that gunpowder and electricity don't work in the rest of the world in this scenario?

It doesn't. He's referring to the inspiration for this thread, the "Islanded in the Sea of Time" universe; the same author wrote a companion series in which a mysterious disturbance centered on Nantucket signals all present-day gunpowder and electrical technology to stop working forever, effectively hurling the world back to eleventh-century technology levels. I believe that in one of the later books it was revealed that this was the work of Wiccan gods or something.

[Coyote]

I don't believe military style defense is going to be too high on the list of priorities.Any natives will probably be more curious than combative;

That depends on who makes initial contact and why. If an idiot goes out to the mainland and tries to rule over a tribe thinking his magic boomstick makes him invincible, we may as well find ourselves at war from day 1. And Indian wars were cruel, nasty and tended to create generation long blood feuds that couldn't seem to cease even when white men invaded.

Hmm, maybe posting a guard shift on the docks would be wise, too.

The biggest thing we may have to bear in mind is to make sure that some of our few females are with any group that meets them, otherwise an entire tribe of men might make them really wary.

Why? Women in Indian tribes weren't necessarily part of the welcoming comittees. Or politics, for that matter. We could always make up a story later about how a terrible disease struck our once far more numerous tribe (hey, there's an entire island full of strange things, and few people on it. It'd look plausible)

That's a good cover story, really. My comment about females was reflected from the writings of Lewis & Clark, who credited Sacajawea's prescence as disarming among various tribes. But while that may be the case for Midwest & Rocky Mountain societies, it may not hold true for Seaboard communities. And Lewis & Clark may have misread the reasons behind her ability to get along.

Or breeding horses. it'd be very easy to get anything they could provide in exchange for horses. In fact, we'd probably make ourselves a target for quite a few tribes who'd want horses, too - again necessitating a military-style defence.

Then there's other stuff, too: every Indian man was a warrior, and their culture was a martial one (with variation, obviously. There were a lot of tribes and cultures). There may come a time when they'll want us to prove our commitment and join them in war against some other, hated tribe. What do we do then?

The thing about safeguarding horses holds true, yes... a coastal watch eventually will have to be posted once we have made contact with the natives and they are aware ofour presence.

As for getting involved in local wars, well, that will have to be considered based on the situation at the time. It may actually benefit us, in some way, to make a display of "don't fuck with us". Like it or not, it can also be an accepted way (for the time) to obtain females.

[KrauserKrauser]

Ok more idle googling results...

Sadly we are a few months too late for the Solar Eclipse in 2051 so cannot use that too our advantage with the natives. I would think some basic astronomy knowledge would be present in our knowledge base and the next eclipse could be calculated, heck it might even be in a log somewhere in the library.

Reading up a bit on Pre-Columbian North America it might actually be a bit less wooded than as it was when the Euros arrived in OTL. While the continent will potentially experience the same depopulation, the area we will be looking at will more than likely not coincide perfectly with the visions of the unspoiled forest that many share. By this time the natives have been using fire clearing for hundreds of years and much of the savannah that was overgrown after the depopulation will be present on our arrival.

As far as weapons technology there is a good chance that they will not have adopted Bow and Arrow as historians begin seeing it 250 years from our entry point but that may or may not be accurate. Spear chuckers will probably be the weapon of choice which should greatly reduce the range of any assaulting natives.

According to wiki we are 2250 years away from the Mississipians and 1250 years from the Swift Creek culture so there won't be much in the way of organized tribes if the historians are correct. At 1250 BC they are still in the process of adopting pottery so we're dealing with a fairly low technological base. Also this would indicate that gathering resources will be a bit hader than if we were popped in around South America as there will be nothing approaching "industry" in the area.

Since we are pre-die off there also may be a larger number of settlements and permanent dellings of tribes in the area as massive die offs lend themselves towards adopting hunter gathering and away from the more resource intensive agriculture, though I am unsure if this will be a benefit for us.

In Central and South America we do have Olmecs, Aztecs, Toltec and Mayan among other societies in their hey day. Technology wise they are not too much behind the Bronze Age that Europe is currently going through but in all honesty we would be better served not dealing with them and leave them to our children to deal with. We are going to have many lifetimes of work ahead of us to reach some semblance of modernity and the more we expose ourselves to the natives, the higher the potential rate of die off.

We are coming in around the time that Maize is first starting to take hold in South America, though long before it reaches North America so it is an invaluable resource for trade, etc. and should be treated accordingly.

Going through the other Americas origined fruit/veggies, I have found the following:

Chili peppers - Should be available in Mexico/SA as they have been seen as long as 6k years ago. If we don't have specimens from our island, we should be able to get some variety of pepper but maybe not the varieties we are used to now.

Quinoa - Also available for the last 6k years in OTL so should not be a problem in this scenario

Chocolate - IE the important one - Sadly this one is up to debate. Historians say that it starts showing up around 1100 BC so we are borderline on this being available. Needless to say we can blow South America's mind with the variety of wonders that can be performed with pulverised roasted Cocoa beans. This might be the only reason we should venture southwards elsewise the remaining chocolate on the island becomes like diamonds and gold, more valuable probably

Onion - We probably have on the island, if not we may have to head off to Europe for some specimens.

Peanuts - Well I highly doubt anyone is growing peanuts on the island so this is another item that should be available in Mexico/SA. Sadly since we will more than likely not have the modern strains available all the historic work to create the varieties may need to be done again. If nothing else we know what else they can be used for once we get them.

Strawberries - I'm guessing that Nantucket climate supports Strawberries so we may have these waiting for us. If not, we're pretty much screwed on these as the modern strawberry didn't come into existence until the 17th century.

Raspberries - Again, probably on the island, but if not then we would be able to find the original plants somewhere in the Americas or in Greece/Turkey

Avacado - Well according to wiki we have a long wait for this wonderful green fruit as the first indication they have listed is an Incan jar from 900AD. Sorry guys, no Gaucamole in our future.

Next I'll look into our prospects of European based items as for the most part that is not going to be much more developed than North America.