"PotC IV: On Stranger Tides" Slated for 2011...

[Thanas]

I'd prefer a Master and Commander-sequel to another PotC.

A little off topic, but I seem to recall one being announced. Not a direct sequel, but rather an adaptation of another book in the same series.

No official announcement, just Crowe shooting off his mouth as usual.

[Brother-Captain Gaius]

Ah. My mistake then.

[Bluewolf]

Another cash cow milking sequel. The series still has a chance to save itself from permanently sucking imo but I am not someone who is gushing with confidence over the idea of PotC doing such a thing really. Sadly if it does suck, it will probably make enough money anyway to do another film which will also in turn, suck.

[Oskuro]

I know who I'm rooting for*.

*The monkey.

Tia Dalma: You know I demand payment.
Jack Sparrow: I brought payment. Look.
[brings out the monkey in a cage, shoots him]
Jack Sparrow: An undead monkey! Top that!


Pure win.

[JME2]

Jack Sparrow: An undead monkey![/i]

Probably my favorite Jack line in the entire series.

[Simon_Jester]

Maybe we can beat on the "Piracy as a Metaphor for Freedom*" idea that the PotC movies go with some more.

*The freedom to rob, murder, and terrorize people, of course. I suppose that isn't romantic adventure though.

In the English-speaking world, the romanticization of pirates is as old as the Spanish Main, I'm afraid. England was almost as irrelevant to the politics of its era as Somalia is today until it started building up naval experience through piracy in the late 1500s. Then they upgraded to trade wars, assimilated the rest of the British Isles, and went to town.

[Darth Hoth]

Maybe we can beat on the "Piracy as a Metaphor for Freedom*" idea that the PotC movies go with some more.

*The freedom to rob, murder, and terrorize people, of course. I suppose that isn't romantic adventure though.

You forgot the freedom to rape.

My guess is that they somehow made the connection by the third film, which is why they decided to make the villains more cartoonish to "balance it out". Really, the absurd lengths they went to in order to make the East India Company (nobody seems to ask what they are doing in the West Indies) look more evil than the pirates by At World's End were just hilarious. Not only do we need to make Becket pointlessly sadistic, we will also retcon Davy Jones from Flying Dutchman to Charon equivalent so the Company can be even more EVIL for upsetting the natural order of things and making life (er, death) Hell for the dead when they keep him away from his duties!

[Tiriol]

Maybe we can beat on the "Piracy as a Metaphor for Freedom*" idea that the PotC movies go with some more.

*The freedom to rob, murder, and terrorize people, of course. I suppose that isn't romantic adventure though.

You forgot the freedom to rape.

My guess is that they somehow made the connection by the third film, which is why they decided to make the villains more cartoonish to "balance it out". Really, the absurd lengths they went to in order to make the East India Company (nobody seems to ask what they are doing in the West Indies) look more evil than the pirates by At World's End were just hilarious. Not only do we need to make Becket pointlessly sadistic, we will also retcon Davy Jones from Flying Dutchman to Charon equivalent so the Company can be even more EVIL for upsetting the natural order of things and making life (er, death) Hell for the dead when they keep him away from his duties!

That wasn't because of the Company, though: it was made clear that Davy Jones had abandoned his duties long ago, hence his monstrous appearance. All the Company did was to direct his anger and frusfration to a direction they found satisfactory.

[Darth Yan]

Beckett was definately a villian even before the third movie. In these tie in books Beckett and his companies involvement in the slave trade is what causes Jack to become a pirate (he disobeyed an order and freed the slaves he was supposed to transport, which caused Beckett to torch his ship and scar Jack with the mark as punishment)

[Darth Hoth]

That wasn't because of the Company, though: it was made clear that Davy Jones had abandoned his duties long ago, hence his monstrous appearance. All the Company did was to direct his anger and frusfration to a direction they found satisfactory.

Conceded then, since I only saw the film once and might have misremembered the details. I still maintain that the retconning of Jones from ghost pirate to Charon for basically no reason was forced and idiotic.

Beckett was definately a villian even before the third movie. In these tie in books Beckett and his companies involvement in the slave trade is what causes Jack to become a pirate (he disobeyed an order and freed the slaves he was supposed to transport, which caused Beckett to torch his ship and scar Jack with the mark as punishment)

There are crappy EU books for PotC as well?

I never disputed that Beckett was supposed to be the villain. I merely objected to them elevating him from profit-hungry desk villain (with style, mind) to sadistic evil overlord.

[Tiriol]

That wasn't because of the Company, though: it was made clear that Davy Jones had abandoned his duties long ago, hence his monstrous appearance. All the Company did was to direct his anger and frusfration to a direction they found satisfactory.

Conceded then, since I only saw the film once and might have misremembered the details. I still maintain that the retconning of Jones from ghost pirate to Charon for basically no reason was forced and idiotic.

That I do not contest. There was some nice ambiguity in Davy Jones's backstory, especially concerning the reason why he cut out his heart, during the second movie; the third movie removed that ambiguity and while an idea of a Charon type character isn't bad, it was handled in a very strange and downright silly way (although I did like the idea that once a decade this "Charon" would have a moment of freedom to spend with his love). I merely wished to point out that Jones wasn't what he was because of the Company; the Company merely enslaved him.

One reason why I liked Beckett in the second movie more than in the third, although he was at the peak of his power in it, was that the second movie didn't try to force the idea of pirates being good and merry little rascals down the viewers' throats; in fact, Beckett could have had legitimate grievances with the pirates, aside his personal enmity with Jack (which he was willing to overcome, since he was offering him a letter of the marque). Yes, Governor Swann didn't trust him (for one reason or another, although we are given some ample evidence that the good Governor was basically right, despite Beckett staying true to his word - albeit often forcing others into accepting his offers) but he, while being clearly hungry for power, influence and money (and order), wasn't, as Darth Hoth said, particularly sadistic (there was a clear element of malice, though - the murder of Governor's friend, the captain, for example). And I loved that eerie theme music of his.

The third movie turned the pirates into a symbol of freedom, honest-to-God freedom fighters (Shao Feng was just about the only one who even acted like a real pirate - even Barbossa was reduced from his glorious blackhearted yet tongue-in-the-cheek villainy into a more or less "decent" freedom fighter) and while Jones became a Charon to Calypso's Persefone, Beckett became a sadistic, backstabbing villain with no redeeming qualities (or at least none which the audience was supposed to identify with). Although Tom Hollander's performance was superb and the character wasn't stupid or coward, Beckett lost much of his Dead Man's Chest -era allure of ambiguity.

However, I must confess my sin: I do like the Pirates of the Caribbean trilogy, even with all of its faults. But a lot of that goes to good villain actors and music. And of course, I like the costumes they used.

[Gandalf]

Beckett was definitely a villain even before the third movie. In these tie in books Beckett and his companies involvement in the slave trade is what causes Jack to become a pirate (he disobeyed an order and freed the slaves he was supposed to transport, which caused Beckett to torch his ship and scar Jack with the mark as punishment)

That's one of the most pissweak back stories I've ever heard. I guess they felt like they had to work hard to make a pirate a (relatively) good guy.

[Anguirus]

^ Isn't that a repackaged version of Han Solo's backstory? Which at least that had the benefit of 1) semi-originality and 2) explaining his close relationship with Chewbacca.

[Darth Yan]

It gets better; he's made into an errand boy by Cortes's ghost, and Cortes and Montezuma face off beyond the grave, like Montezuma's revenge.

[Thanas]

It gets better; he's made into an errand boy by Cortes's ghost, and Cortes and Montezuma face off beyond the grave, like Montezuma's revenge.

Just when I thought Traviss was the worst writer there is....

[Darth Yan]

to be fair these are young readers stories, and the idea of montezuma getting revenge on cortes is strangely awesome.

[Big Orange]

I actually enjoyed Dead Man's Chest as much as I did the recent Star Trek and The Revenge of the Sith, an acceptable 7/10, even though like Back to the Future Part II it falls into the trap of having too many plot strands that demand to be tied up in a more forgettable second sequel. Although actors like Geoffrey Rush, Johnny Depp, and Tom Hollander are appreciated, I also personally liked Bill Nighy, David Schofield, and Kevin McNally. Keira Knightley was better than Orlando Bland, I like her as an actress, but her trouble was that her character (Swann) went through increasingly overblown, contrived character development as the PotC story progressed. More things certainly went wrong with At World's End (which I give a 5/10 score), but then again it's hardly a unique phenomena with X-Men III: The Last Stand and Spider Man 3 (which came out the same year) being widely perceived as relatively weak movies that were lukewarmly received.

An article of Johnny Depp having doubts about a fourth PotC movie, stemming from change in management at Disney:

Hollywood was shocked Friday afternoon by the sudden dismissal/resignation (take your pick) of Walt Disney Studios chairman Dick Cook, but no one may have taken it harder than Johnny Depp.

Speaking to The Los Angeles Times late at night in London, Depp said Cook's departure had created "a fissure, a crack in my enthusiasm at the moment" for the project.

Depp, who recently appeared at the first official Disney convention, D23 Expo, to support both his role as the Mad Hatter in Tim Burton's "Alice in Wonderland" and the new "Pirates" movie, credited Cook with standing by his interpretation of the character Captain Jack Sparrow when others at the studio were questioning his un-Disney like direction.

Depp told the Times, "He's instantly trustworthy. And you generally don't meet people at the studios you trust. He's a rare beast."

The actor also said he currently has a potential deal in place for "Pirates 4" and whether he moves forward or not will depend on how good the script is, but was presently "shocked and sad" over the day's events.

A lifelong employee at Disney, Cook began his career with the company in 1971 when he started as a monorail operator. By 2002, then CEO Michael Eisner made him chairman of the studio, one of the most senior positions in the company. Unfortunately, the studio side of the operation -- his responsibility -- lost $12 million in the third quarter due to financial disappointments such as "Bedtime Stories" and "Confessions of a Shopaholic." Current CEO Bob Iger blamed the losses on the quality of the overall slate in a conference call with Wall Street investors, but no one in the industry truly believed Cook could lose his job. Clearly, having hits such as "The Proposal" and "Up" over the summer didn't restore Iger's confidence in the well liked studio chief.

Who will take over Cook's position as studio chairman now and convince stars like Depp to stay in the fold is the $100 million dollar question that will have the town buzzing over the weekend. Will Pixar head and Disney Animation Chief John Lasseter take the top spot? Could Kevin Feige, president of production at newly acquired Marvel Studios, really ascend to a position of that stature so quickly? Could Stacey Snider somehow get out of her DreamWorks deal to run the studio? Or will it be an unknown who will have an even harder time proving himself to the likes of Jerry Bruckheimer, Robert Zemeckis and Burton? All are major players with projects or longtime deals at the studio who will be wary of someone without a strong track record.

Needless to say, Cook's replacement and possibly Iger, will have a call to Depp on the top of their list of things to do.

HITFIX