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ray245 wrote:Mulan is rather 'dark' In the sense that we get to see plenty of death in an animated film.

"How many people does it take to deliver a message?"

"One."

/shoots second soldier

That line would've fit right into a Die Hard film or something akin to it.

If we're going by death counts instead of disturbing, then Atlantis: The Lost Empire, aside form being almost exactly like Stargate, has a colossal death toll.

When I was a kid all those movies I enjoyed due to their "scare" factor and creepiness.

Though honestly my favorite disney movie of all time will forever be The Little Mermaid.

Why?

Now I am the ruler of ALL the oceans. The waves obey my every whim. The sea and all it's spoils BOW TO MY POWER!!!

What, no mention of Bambi's momma getting smoked?

It's cool, I didn't like Bambi much, myself. On the other hand, Mustafa's death in Lion King still makes me choke up a bit (just like Goose's death in Top Gun). As well, Jungle Book was a little sad to me, because first of all, the kid is abandoned, and then his friends end up abandoned when he returns to human society. And the live-action film made more recently (I don't know if it was Disney or not) was pretty scary at the beginning, and I remember I had nightmares of losing my family like that...

Oh yes, The Little Mermaid. Come on, you had a GIANT Ursula octopus woman - and the hero boy sends his ship ramming into her, sending the ship's prow into her uterus! Into her octopussy!

Sweet Jesus!

Talk about Taskforce Cuntpuncher. Ramming speed!

I agree that the climaxes of TLM and TGMD always scared me as a kid. So did Flora, Fauna, and Merryweather's attempts to infiltrate Maleficent's mountain in Sleeping Beauty.

Companion Cube wrote:I never saw The Hunchback of Notre Dame when I was little, but I kind of regret that.

Heh; Tony Jay for the win. I had no idea what the film was about at the age of 12 and now at the age of 23, I love it.

I have always found The Hunchback of Notre Dame to be a rather adult in tone (much more so than many other Disney films) and Judge Claude Frollo is unusually nuanced Disney villain character (although the makers of the movie apparently tried to do some justice to the original character from the book). I am especially fond of his voice in English and Finnish (try to Youtube the Finnish version of Frollo's voice).

The Black Cauldron is filled with dark characters (the army of the dead, the Horned King), although it isn't as adult (in my opinion) as the previous film I mentioned.

One strangely dark movie, if you look beyond the obvious, is Hercules by Disney. The main villain Hades is the lord of the dead and the ruler of the underworld. We see what kind of a miserable place the underworld is (the souls of the deceased are doomed to float in the river of death, apparently for all time) and we know that Hades is a god - the river of death won't kill him and he will most likely be back. And Phil, Hercules (at the end of the movie), Megara etc. are mortals. They WILL die and enter the realm of Hades. Rather dismal fate for the heroes of the story, to end up under the rule of vengeful god who is mightily pissed off at them all. And I wouldn't want to be Pain and Panic either; although Hades is more reserved in the usual villain code that he doesn't take his frusfration on his minions without a cause, he might consider it a "just cause" to torment the ever-living daylights out of the imps after they didn't even try to save him from the river of death.

I know its not animated, but still Disney, Dragonslayer always kind of freaked me out, evil bastard dragon, the princess being eaten by the baby dragons, the sacrifice scene. All pretty dark.

I'll third The Black Hole, I've seen the Cygnus described as a cross between a gothic cathedral and a victorian railway station, along with John Barry's score its pretty dark.

In an unintentionally perverse way...Song of the South.

Portraying Confederate slaver society as a place where wise old black slaves happy in their captivity sang soulfully for the entertainment and education of little white children, with accompaniment by magical animated critters, and all was sweetness and light, is pretty damned dark.

Tiriol wrote:One strangely dark movie, if you look beyond the obvious, is Hercules by Disney. The main villain Hades is the lord of the dead and the ruler of the underworld. We see what kind of a miserable place the underworld is (the souls of the deceased are doomed to float in the river of death, apparently for all time) and we know that Hades is a god - the river of death won't kill him and he will most likely be back. And Phil, Hercules (at the end of the movie), Megara etc. are mortals. They WILL die and enter the realm of Hades. Rather dismal fate for the heroes of the story, to end up under the rule of vengeful god who is mightily pissed off at them all. And I wouldn't want to be Pain and Panic either; although Hades is more reserved in the usual villain code that he doesn't take his frusfration on his minions without a cause, he might consider it a "just cause" to torment the ever-living daylights out of the imps after they didn't even try to save him from the river of death.

Actually if memory serves Hercules becomes a god when he's swimming around in the river of souls, so he'll survive. And I kind of assumed that Hades would be stuck in there indefinitely since all the souls were dragging him down and he probably wasn't strong enough to swim against the tide.
The fact that Megara and Philoctetes may die as well (I don't know if satyrs are mortal, and some mortals can live forever on Olympos, see Ganymede for further reference) was, I think, more a case of the writers not thinking of the details, and that's if you assume they are going to die. And besides, even if Hades does get out, what's he going to do when the Thunderer will electrocute him if he so much as sets foot above ground again?

I don't remember the bit in The Little Mermaid where Ursula gets rammed by a boat. Isn't that how Cthulhu was put back to sleep? I just think that's a funny paralell.

I can only remember elements of Pinnochio, but from what the original post said that probably takes the cake, and I still remember being distinctly freaked out by the donkey transformation scene, and various other bits which I don't remember quite so well. It's telling that the OP mentions Scar being eaten alive by his minions as being a classic happy ending ingredient by comparison.

edit: Although I think honourable mentions should go to Mulan for the remains-of-the-army scene and Hunchback of Notre Dame for the villain coming seriously close to immolating a load of gypsies and having his villainy stem from sexual repression. And then getting immolated himself.

Kanastrous wrote:In an unintentionally perverse way...Song of the South.

Portraying Confederate slaver society as a place where wise old black slaves happy in their captivity sang soulfully for the entertainment and education of little white children, with accompaniment by magical animated critters, and all was sweetness and light, is pretty damned dark.

Well according to Wiki it was technically set post Civil War. So I guess the guy was free.

Although I suppose the rest of it is why they're not releasing the whole thing, at least in the US.

RogueIce wrote:

Kanastrous wrote:In an unintentionally perverse way...Song of the South.

Portraying Confederate slaver society as a place where wise old black slaves happy in their captivity sang soulfully for the entertainment and education of little white children, with accompaniment by magical animated critters, and all was sweetness and light, is pretty damned dark.

Well according to Wiki it was technically set post Civil War. So I guess the guy was free.

Whoops, my bad.

Although portraying post-war Southern society as a place where wise old black recently-ex-slaves happy in their post-captivity oppression sang soulfully for the entertainment and education of little white children, with accompaniment by magical animated critters, and all was sweetness and light, is pretty damned dark,too.

RogueIce wrote:Although I suppose the rest of it is why they're not releasing the whole thing, at least in the US.

I gather it's still distributed in Japan, where it enjoys some degree of popularity. I don't know what to make, of that.

A lot of the older Disney movies were darker because expectations of those times were different, I think. Having not seen them all, I can't give a definite vote, but Sleeping Beauty is certainly up there (C'mon, Maleficent turns into a dragon and boasts to the Prince that she has all the powers of HELL! That's why Maleficent is about the only Disney villain, save perhaps Hades, to carry dramatic weight in the Kingdom Hearts games; she is bona fide evil).

And.... do not speak to me of the atrocity called "The Black Cauldron". The movie was fucking shit compared to the awesomeness of the books, which I read in 6th Grade (ironically completely out of order, I picked "The High King" out of my English/Lit Homeroom teacher's "chest" of books to read and do a book report on and that started me on a frantic hunt through the school library for the other installments). Fflewdder is not supposed to be some old guy, that sword is not the awesomeness that was Dyrnwyn, Gurgi was described as a bit more Human-sized IIRC, merging Coll and Dallben into one character sucked, the absence of Gwydion was horrible (and King Smoit, and the Commons dwellers, and all the other important characters), making the lackey Horned King into the villain instead of having fucking Arawn was stupid (it'd be like making Gothmog the villain of the LOTR trilogy), Doli was supposed to be a damned dwarf, what they did to Orddu, Orwen, and Orgoch was fucking travesty.....

They didn't even have proper Cauldron-Born!

*looks around*

Oh, uh... sorry for getting on a rant there.....

Indeed, the Black Cauldron deserved far better. Oh, and you forgot to mention that the fucking Horned King wasn't even in The Black Cauldron.

The Romulan Republic wrote:Indeed, the Black Cauldron deserved far better. Oh, and you forgot to mention that the fucking Horned King wasn't even in The Black Cauldron.

Yep. He was offed in the first damned book.

The second had a more... intriguing pair of antagonists.

Heh, due to this conversation I went ahead and checked out Taran Wanderer and The High King from the library today.

old yeller the only Disney film that still makes my get wet under my eyes.

poor dog.

Steve wrote:A lot of the older Disney movies were darker because expectations of those times were different, I think. Having not seen them all, I can't give a definite vote, but Sleeping Beauty is certainly up there (C'mon, Maleficent turns into a dragon and boasts to the Prince that she has all the powers of HELL! That's why Maleficent is about the only Disney villain, save perhaps Hades, to carry dramatic weight in the Kingdom Hearts games; she is bona fide evil).

No, it's not just that she's evil, it's that she has both screen presence and street credit, which, yes, only Hades also shares. The Mongol leader of Mulan was a vicious psycho, but he was too flat to carry the plot. Susan Sarandon's character, had she existed when KH or KH2 came out might have worked, save for being too much like Maleficent in nature. Morgan La Fey would have worked, but she'd be too hard to fit.

On topic, totally Pinnochio, though Little Mermaid, Hunchback, and Beauty and the Beast are all pretty dark for various reasons.