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Another possible consequence of a meson burst option would be the relative obsolescence of indirect-fire artillery. What is the point of firing an artillery barrage in a ballistic arc over a line of hills if the self-propelled turbolasers can fire through the line of hills? It is, of course, an ability never demonstrated by any turbolaser weaponry as far as I am aware. Shields and particularly dense matrials (such as neutronium-reinforced armor) might stop a meson packet, detonating it at the point of the packet's intersection with the shields or neutronium.

Any takers?

I would do it that way if I could

Commence Firing!
Theres a hill between us and the target sir!
Point Being?
None sir Just saying

CmdrWilkens wrote:If you are refering to what is written in the ICS then you'd be inferring without enough evidence. His exact word is that TLs consist of a lightspeed beam and a tracer which depletes the energy content of the lightspeed beam thus limiting range. This means that there must be energy contained within the visible portion of the bolt. In fact a great deal for that matter as most often damage effects don't occur until the tracer hits which would be long after the lightspeed beams impacts.

Shrug, to me it seems the first sentece is about the weapon, then he descrbies why it has a visible bolt, wich to me indicates that the c portion is the "bad portion" :p

Besides, with the SOTE quote there is not much a point arguing about this.

True, but many think that the book is not cannon, and therefore does not apply. I think SOTE is correct though.

David wrote:True, but many think that the book is not cannon, and therefore does not apply. I think SOTE is correct though.

Wich book? SOTE or ICS?
I've heard that ICS can be considered higher up than the novels, however most novels agree with the ICS and SOTE.

I think SOTE is clearer about the whole issue.

Patrick Ogaard wrote:I suspect that turbolasers would be based on a combined particle beam and laser. Since the technology of the Empire includes the manipulation of exotic forms of matter, including hypermatter and neutronium, it seems likely that turbolasers derive their flak burst ability from exotic particles, such as mesons.

Star Wars neutronium can be found on moons, so it isn't the real thing.

Shadow wrote: Star Wars neutronium can be found on moons, so it isn't the real thing.

That whole "moon thing" was suspect from the beginning, anyhow Saxton agrees that it's real neutronium that is used in SW hulls.

I believe someone said it was a ruse, it was like fools gold

I'm not particularly worried about the neutronium not being neutronium angle. I honestly have no idea if neutronium liberated from the massive gravity field of a neutron star would retain its properties as neutronium instead of immediately unfolding into proper neutrons and electrons and attracting or generating protons to form conventional matter. If one assumes that neutronium can retain its properties without the gravity/pressure requisite for its creation, then the catastrophic disruption of a neutron star could very well send neutronium fragments zipping around the universe, from whence they might well plop down on moons.

Remember: in Star Trek, superglue is a dangerously radioactive substance.

Patrick Ogaard wrote:I'm not particularly worried about the neutronium not being neutronium angle. I honestly have no idea if neutronium liberated from the massive gravity field of a neutron star would retain its properties as neutronium instead of immediately unfolding into proper neutrons and electrons and attracting or generating protons to form conventional matter. If one assumes that neutronium can retain its properties without the gravity/pressure requisite for its creation, then the catastrophic disruption of a neutron star could very well send neutronium fragments zipping around the universe, from whence they might well plop down on moons.

The ability for an ISD to use forcefields to create the required pressure exists.

Why didn't the armor of the ISD hit by the ion cannon on Hoth explode? Why were they worried about asteroids? Why did a 250 kt asteroid destroy an ISD bridge tower?

Shadow wrote:Why didn't the armor of the ISD hit by the ion cannon on Hoth explode?

That depends on wheter the force fields went down or not, they would logically be better protected than other systems

Why were they worried about asteroids?

They where coming out of a battle, we know that two ships atleast where hit with the ion cannon, it's possible that their systems or powergrids were not totally operational yet.

Why did a 250 kt asteroid destroy an ISD bridge tower?

It didn't, check MW's page on that, we see the silouhette of the tower against the ISD and the explosion is consistent with an impact that failed to penetrate the armor, plus ILM never blew up an ISD tower.

His Divine Shadow wrote: That depends on wheter the force fields went down or not, they would logically be better protected than other systems

Ion cannons have never caused armor to explode. Why don't they use this protection on shields?

They where coming out of a battle, we know that two ships atleast where hit with the ion cannon, it's possible that their systems or powergrids were not totally operational yet.

If they had neutronium armor they wouldn't have to worry even with their shields.

It didn't, check MW's page on that, we see the silouhette of the tower against the ISD and the explosion is consistent with an impact that failed to penetrate the armor, plus ILM never blew up an ISD tower.

Where is this page located?

Ion cannons have never caused armor to explode. Why don't they use this protection on shields?

Expensive? This was a planetary ion canon, in the novels shields seems to offer protection

If they had neutronium armor they wouldn't have to worry even with their shields.

Why?
Just because a small amount of neutronium(probably in the form of a mesh of strands) doesn't mean 100% protection over the whole hull.

Where is this page located?

http://www.stardestroyer.net/Empire/Tec ... index.html

Quote within quote within quote.



I'm getting dizzy.

David wrote:Quote within quote within quote.

I'm getting dizzy.

Nah, there is only the quote, plus that annoying long strip in the middle.

Trying lying down Dave your colors off

Me

His Divine Shadow wrote:
Expensive? This was a planetary ion canon, in the novels shields seems to offer protection

If they use it on the armor forcefields, why would it be too expensive to use on shields.

Why?
Just because a small amount of neutronium(probably in the form of a mesh of strands) doesn't mean 100% protection over the whole hull.

How would that protect the ship from turbolasers?

http://www.stardestroyer.net/Empire/Tec ... index.html

It says that the impact cause secondary explosions, so it agrees the armor did not block the asteroid. You can also see the Executor's engine through where the bridge tower was.

If they use it on the armor forcefields, why would it be too expensive to use on shields.

Perhaps because shields are not critical to the ship's armor staying intact.

How would that protect the ship from turbolasers?

If it hits where the strand is, the neutronium would disperse the energy over the hull.

It says that the impact cause secondary explosions, so it agrees the armor did not block the asteroid.

No it doesn't, secondary explosions does not equal that the armor did not block the asteroid.
He clearly states that the asteroid did not penetrate the armor because the explosion was consistent with an explosion not penetrating the armor.

You can also see the engine through where the bridge tower was

Blatantly false, the tower moved and you can see the back of the towers outline against the engines wich shows no damage.

~pulls out bag of popcorn and sits down~



This is good! You can't get these kinds of debates at most boards.

His Divine Shadow wrote: Perhaps because shields are not critical to the ship's armor staying intact.

That isn't a valid reason for why shields aren't protected from ion cannons like the armor forcefields are.

If it hits where the strand is, the neutronium would disperse the energy over the hull.

A big turbolaser bolt can be blocked by a tiny strand? Wouldn't the strand just make the bolt explode if it was plasma in a magnetic bottle?

No it doesn't, secondary explosions does not equal that the armor did not block the asteroid.
He clearly states that the asteroid did not penetrate the armor because the explosion was consistent with an explosion not penetrating the armor.

Post what he said. I can't find where he says this.

Blatantly false, the tower moved and you can see the back of the towers outline against the engines wich shows no damage.

What caused the captain to duck, and the communication to cut off?

The captian Ducks because he's a big wussie and Communcation cuts off because the comm lines break oh and it did not pentrate the Armor but If I saw a Huge chunk of Rock heading for my Ship out the nice pretty window I'd

A. Run like hell if possible
B. Duck because thats the natural Human instinct

That isn't a valid reason for why shields aren't protected from ion cannons like the armor forcefields are.

And why not?
Shields stand up to ship ion-cannons, protecting against the highly unlikely possibility of a planetary ion cannon is not a required thing given how unlieky it is, economical reasons factor in too.
Ofcourse it might use a totally different means of keeping the neutronium stable so who cares?

A big turbolaser bolt can be blocked by a tiny strand? Wouldn't the strand just make the bolt explode if it was plasma in a magnetic bottle?

No magnetic bottle here nor bolt here, thats what this thread has proven, but it's irrelevant anyhow.
Neutronium kept stable is an excellect conductor and would spread out the energy over the hull.

Post what he said. I can't find where he says this.

Incident
Impactor Momentum
Impactor KE
Result

TESB Asteroid
1.25E12 kg·m/s
6.25E14 J
Pulverized against surface.

What caused the captain to duck, and the communication to cut off?

Those secondary explosions you talked about? Forgot them? Besides the captain looked like he was shielding his eyes from a bright flash.

His Divine Shadow wrote: And why not?
Shields stand up to ship ion-cannons, protecting against the highly unlikely possibility of a planetary ion cannon is not a required thing given how unlieky it is, economical reasons factor in too.
Ofcourse it might use a totally different means of keeping the neutronium stable so who cares?

Thye feel the need to protect the armor generators, but not shields? How else could they keep the neutronium stable.

No magnetic bottle here nor bolt here, thats what this thread has proven, but it's irrelevant anyhow.
Neutronium kept stable is an excellect conductor and would spread out the energy over the hull.

What about everything else that doesn't hit the hull? Why put such a complex system in place when it doesn't block most of the impact?

Incident
Impactor Momentum
Impactor KE
Result

TESB Asteroid
1.25E12 kg·m/s
6.25E14 J
Pulverized against surface.

This is the only time this was said, and that doesn't mean the armor wasn't penetrated. How was this conclusion achieved?
Those secondary explosions you talked about? Forgot them? Besides the captain looked like he was shielding his eyes from a bright flash.[/quote]
The communication cut off, too.