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CaptHawkeye wrote:The Acclamator is transport and landing ship before a dedicated warship. Perhaps they were worried the CIS positions were prepared for low level warship attacks? They were heavily dug in, and it's not like they had a lot of exact intelligence on how well prepared the CIS was for a full attack. For all they knew, the hillsides and mountain ranges could have been covered with anti ship weapons a la Guns of Navarone.

Even if the CIS was prepared for close air support, why would that change anything? If the hillsides and mountains were convered with anti-air weapons, they would have been used whether the Acclamators shot first or not.

And it's not like the CIS would have no clue about the Acclamators landing. If the hillsides and mountains were saturated with anti-air emplacements, they would have detected and fired on the Acclamators. Even though Acclamators are transports, and not dedicated warships, the CIS would not ignore them if they had significant anti-air emplacements. They would concentrate on the transports first, I would think.

Is it possible that there were theater sheilds over the core ships that had to be taken down first? By then they wouldn't want to risk hitting their own troops. Unless the novel contradicts, it seems like the best explanation. The gunships seemed grossly underused in the battle too. If they had to fly under shields initially that would help explain their lack of heavy early useage.

Anguirus wrote:No one's talking about orbital bombardment, but heavy close-air support. One Acclamator could conceivably have done a lot of good.

If the transports were armed at this stage, it is possible that their crews were not sufficiently trained to be able to execute this without endangering troops. In contrast, by RotS they are using whole Star Destroyers as close-air support.

I doubt that an army that can engage a space battle, perhaps blockade a planet, invade said planet, land a few 752meter long ships with enough stealth to not alert the whole enemy compound, engange that planets ground defenses is incapable of shooting their own weapons without hitting their own soldiers.

We see plenty of AA fire targetting the LAATs during the battle, and there's a ring of turbolasers surrounding each Core Ship, according to AOTC:ICS. Maybe the Acclamators simply fired a few rounds as they decended, then landed behind cover and disembarked their cargo?

VT-16 wrote:Maybe the Acclamators simply fired a few rounds as they decended, then landed behind cover and disembarked their cargo?

Most of the Acclamators were, in fact, behind cover. You can only see two near where Mace lands that have a clear line of sight.

It would have been foolish for the Acclamators to attack the ground forces before dropping off their own troop. Each one carries 16,000 clones. The loss of a single Acclamator would have resulted in significant casualties. Its better to waste their firepower than risk losing their cargo. The clones are far harder to kill once deployed. As you can see from the flow of the battle, the Republic was able to land overwelming numbers; the droid were routed within minutes of the start of the battle. There was no need for the Acclamators to join the ground battle. Better to have them land and pump all their power into their shields while the unload their cargo.

Darth Ruinus wrote: I doubt that an army that can engage a space battle,

Not true. Remember in The Clone Wars? The battle over courecuant? The Clones simply abandoned ship and started fighting with the CIS Assualt Batteries.

Anyway, it could also be possible that it was a shock tactic. (although highly unlikely)
Clone Soldier: Hey Battle Droid!
Battle Droid: Yes?
Clone Soldier: We can kick the crap out of you without air-support!
Battle Droid: Oh Noes!

Another possibility is that the Acclimators were actually firing in the atmosphere. It just wasn't in any scenes in the movie, since most of those seem to involve being on the clone army's front lines. They could be assualting the seperatists from the other side of the battle...Although this could be refuted by the novel, as I haven't read it.

Maybe the commander of the overall invasion force, (Yoda?) Never thought of taking out the Droid ships. It sounds stupid that they would have just have left targets like that go unmolested but the Jedi were never great generals to start with. Ala mass charges with the Republic Infantry during the battle.

I might be wrong but I remember the Republic didn't really attack the Core Ships until several minutes into the battle and after most of the troopers had already been deployed.

I give the lack of air support to the incompetence of the Jedi in charge and the over all lack of experience of the entire Grand Army

Admiral Drason wrote:Maybe the commander of the overall invasion force, (Yoda?) Never thought of taking out the Droid ships. It sounds stupid that they would have just have left targets like that go unmolested but the Jedi were never great generals to start with. Ala mass charges with the Republic Infantry during the battle.

I'm going to have to come to Yoda's defense here. Yoda launched a suprise attack with only one goal; to capture or kill the seperatist leaders. Casualties were irrelevent because, if he succeeded, he would have stopped the war before it started thus saving millions (if not billions) of lives. Speed was of the essence. No doubt, thanks to Obi Wan's recon, there was a fleet of ships in space waiting to blast the Core Ships after they took off. Yoda only decided to attack the core ships after it was apparent that the ground battle was already won; he had the luxury of taking his ground support away momentarily to insure that no ship left the system since each one could potentially contain Dooku or another Seperatist leader.

Notice how Dooku flew away from the area of the battle to a remote location and had to board a small craft to escape.

This last event shows the brilliance of Palpatine's plan. 10 years earlier he ordered a Grand Army designed to make massive lightning ground assualts. Then he creates a situation that looks ideal for his grand army. Yoda plans his attack based on the strengths of the Acclamators; a massive suprise ground assult. But, Palpatine also built a weakness into his Grand Army: a lack of sufficient fighter support. Knowing this weakness, he instructed Dooku and the Seperatist leaders to escape, not in the massive Core Ships but instead in smaller ships that can sneak by the blockade. Thus insuring the Clone War starts exactly as planned.

I doubt that an army that can engage a space battle, perhaps blockade a planet, invade said planet, land a few 752meter long ships with enough stealth to not alert the whole enemy compound, engange that planets ground defenses is incapable of shooting their own weapons without hitting their own soldiers.

An army that can fire its heavy weapons without ever hitting its own soldiers would be unique in the annals of warfare.

Remember, these are the same clones who were trained not to fire their gunships' lasers at aerial targets, because that's what the air-to-air rockets are for. It doesn't matter how many simulations they've ben in, these are green troops.

As for the sudden attack of the clones, all they really did was do what Admiral Ozzel failed to in ESB: jump into the system out of range of scanners, and then microjump right on top of the enemy before they can put up a planetary shield. In the Star Wars universe this would have to be a standard tactic, and inability to perform it was grounds for Ozzel's instant execution.

ColonialAdmiral wrote:

Darth Ruinus wrote: I doubt that an army that can engage a space battle,

Not true. Remember in The Clone Wars? The battle over courecuant? The Clones simply abandoned ship and started fighting with the CIS Assualt Batteries.

Anyway, it could also be possible that it was a shock tactic. (although highly unlikely)
Clone Soldier: Hey Battle Droid!
Battle Droid: Yes?
Clone Soldier: We can kick the crap out of you without air-support!
Battle Droid: Oh Noes!

Another possibility is that the Acclimators were actually firing in the atmosphere. It just wasn't in any scenes in the movie, since most of those seem to involve being on the clone army's front lines. They could be assualting the seperatists from the other side of the battle...Although this could be refuted by the novel, as I haven't read it.

I think your talking about that Clone Wars cartoon, when after they had taken alot of damage they did that whole, board the enemy ship and fight its TLs up close.

Anguirus wrote:No one's talking about orbital bombardment, but heavy close-air support. One Acclamator could conceivably have done a lot of good.

Heh; true but as others said, the Acclamators likely weren't armed, we don't see those firing and iy is said that those ae the firs 200,000 clones on the 12 Acclamators at the ground.

If the transports were armed at this stage, it is possible that their crews were not sufficiently trained to be able to execute this without endangering troops.

True; but we don't know the makeup of the ecrew. I believed the Republic Navy CW-era did recruit humans as troops

In contrast, by RotS they are using whole Star Destroyers as close-air support.

Yes

ColonialAdmiral wrote: Not true. Remember in The Clone Wars? The battle over courecuant? The Clones simply abandoned ship and started fighting with the CIS Assualt Batteries.

The ship was not saveable; it was in a decaying orbit and/or took havy fire from crashing into a CIS ship and being jumped on at th beginning without shielding

[qioe]Anyway, it could also be possible that it was a shock tactic. (although highly unlikely)
Clone Soldier: Hey Battle Droid!
Battle Droid: Yes?
Clone Soldier: We can kick the crap out of you without air-support!
Battle Droid: Oh Noes! [/quote]

hahaha.

Also; it would take some time, and/or provide confusion to see a CIS ship shooting at other CIS warships; when Saesee Tiim took over the ship and had the Providence's tubolasers shoot at (and inflict decent damage) on another Providence; that ship likely did not have any shields facing the other friendlies at this time; as this portion of the battlefield (and at this time) was not a conused fuckstorm like other areas around Coruscant with no line organization, etc.

Another possibility is that the Acclimators were actually firing in the atmosphere. It just wasn't in any scenes in the movie, since most of those seem to involve being on the clone army's front lines. They could be assualting the seperatists from the other side of the battle...Although this could be refuted by the novel, as I haven't read it.

The novelization says thousands of Republic ships attacking the CIS army

AdmiralDrason wrote:Maybe the commander of the overall invasion force, (Yoda?) Never thought of taking out the Droid ships. It sounds stupid that they would have just have left targets like that go unmolested but the Jedi were never great generals to start with. Ala mass charges with the Republic Infantry during the battle.

Possible; the original purpose of the battle was to rescue the Jedi; and later Yoda and the others noticed that war bgan and began the strategy to take out as many Cofederate warships.

I might be wrong but I remember the Republic didn't really attack the Core Ships until several minutes into the battle and after most of the troopers had already been deployed.

As soom as the LAATs rescued the Jedi; Obi-wan saw the ships and ordered the LAATs to try to damage/destroy the Techno Union Hardcells and the Lucrehulk Core ships.

I give the lack of air support to the incompetence of the Jedi in charge and the over all lack of experience of the entire Grand Army

Aaron2 wrote:Yoda plans his attack based on the strengths of the Acclamators; a massive suprise ground assult. But, Palpatine also built a weakness into his Grand Army: a lack of sufficient fighter support. Knowing this weakness, he instructed Dooku and the Seperatist leaders to escape, not in the massive Core Ships but instead in smaller ships that can sneak by the blockade. Thus insuring the Clone War starts exactly as planned.

some V-19 Torrents actuslly did participate in the battle I believe; and didn't Gunray and Haako escape in the shuttle to an orbiting Lucrehulk?

Warsie wrote:True; but we don't know the makeup of the crew. I believed the Republic Navy CW-era did recruit humans as troops

They did, but even if the Geonosis task force was crewed by skilled spacers, they may have been somewhat unaccustomed to their ships; after all, the battle was the Acclamator-class' inaugural usage. This, of course, is pure speculation; for all we know, Rothana Heavy Engineering could have been training crews onboard the vessels for close to a decade.

Noble Ire wrote:[
They did, but even if the Geonosis task force was crewed by skilled spacers, they may have been somewhat unaccustomed to their ships; after all, the battle was the Acclamator-class' inaugural usage. This, of course, is pure speculation; for all we know, Rothana Heavy Engineering could have been training crews onboard the vessels for close to a decade.

Oh, thank you for that info