Brittany Spears's kids are screwed. What can we do?

[Darth Wong]

I wonder what people think social responsibility means, if it is assigned only in cases where we are certain that the person had an optimum upbringing. By the logic that Brock is using, we shouldn't blame criminals if they had shitty upbringings (which they usually did).

[Superman]

What are you talking about? Granted, people like Federlane seem too slimy to be allowed to breed, and that they do doesn't say much for the judgement of the women they catch.

Yep.

However, Kory and Kaleb haven't done anything yet. Its a little early to be looking at them as untermensch, if ever.

I take it those are her kids?

I don't blame her kids. They didn't ask to have that white trash, drug addicted person as a mother. The problem is that this is the person to whom they will attach, or in this case, fail to attach to.

Paris Hilton, to whom Britney apparently looked up to for guidance on celebrity womanhood, did not come from a trailer park.

I think you're missing my point. I didn't say 'white trash' exclusively; they just happen to the be vast majority of these idiots who are multiplying like crazy.

Dick Cheney and George Bush didn't come from a trailer park either, and look what those scions of middle and upper America can do.

No argument here.

The trailer park caste may breed dross from time to time, as well as the occasional gold and silver, but so will every other. That's why the free world doesn't officially enforce a caste system anymore.

From time to time? Are you high? These are the idiot mothers who crap out 5 kids before people who actually work have one or two, usually with different fathers for each one. Please... Have you ever worked in a field where you see this firsthand?

[Darth Wong]

Brock is employing a rather obvious fallacy, in which he believes that the existence of shitty upper-class brats somehow disproves the phenomenon of ignorant redneck trailer-trash. His logic looks like this:

"If any members of group A exhibit behaviour X, then you cannot associate behaviour X with group B".

This is, of course, totally fallacious. The problem is one of ratios, not absolutes. Education is correlated to socio-economic class. Complain about that, analyze it, get mad about it, but whatever you do, it remains a fact. And that means people living in trailer parks will always have a very strong tendency to be ignorant trash.

[Shinova]

One of the ironies about our modern age is that the people who are least capable of raising children tend to have the most children. The only difference between Britney Spears and the country's vast swathes of trailer trash is the size and cost of her trailer.

Hopefully the status quo will stay and the minority elite (the intelligent and wealthy) will continue to rule most of the world in the future. (LOL, I'm actually rooting for those upper .01-ish percent )

[ray245]

Ok....so WHICH female celebritiy in hollywood do you considered it to be good?

natile portman maybe?

[Flagg]

How does American society seem to allow freaks like Michael Jackson, Anne Nicole Smith, Elvis Presley, Britney Spears, OJ Simpson and many, many others to get very rich and then totally blow it in a spectacular manner, permanently damaging themselve and everyone else around them? Where are the fucking checks and balances in the entertainment industry? It seems to be populated by too many freaks, fools and sociopaths.

Yeah, you can take Elvis OFF that list, doucher. How dare you list the King with Brittany Spears...???

I say good day to you, sir! GOOD DAY!

Yeah, Elvis was too busy shooting TV's and eating Peanutbutter and 'Nanner sandwitches to waste his money.

[The Yosemite Bear]

Well as soon as Courtney Love's daughter gets emancipated.....

(what am I the only one who can see the new TV reality show?)

Frances Bean Cobain has my utmost sympathy. I can't imagine what it'd be like having Courtney Love, of all women, as a mother...

Not to mention that she gave her "Bean" as a middle name. Damn crack head parents...

or naming her after one of hollywood's most infamous crazy actresses.... (Frances Farmer)

yeah, as soon as she turns 15-16 I'm sure child protective services, will file a brief to emancipate her reguardless of her wishes.

[Broomstick]

One of the ironies about our modern age is that the people who are least capable of raising children tend to have the most children. The only difference between Britney Spears and the country's vast swathes of trailer trash is the size and cost of her trailer.

Actually, that comparison is an insult to a lot of people living in trailers. I'm mean, the average trailer slut is probably more capable and mentally stable that Britney-bitch

[Big Orange]

Yeah, you can take Elvis OFF that list, doucher. How dare you list the King with Brittany Spears...???

I say good day to you, sir! GOOD DAY!

Yeah, Elvis was too busy shooting TV's and eating Peanutbutter and 'Nanner sandwitches to waste his money.

I realise that Elvis Presley was a living god in terms of musical talent but he ended up a complete mess in his final years and his career was manipulated by his sociopathic manager, Colonel Tom Parker - I'm just pointing out how profoundly dysfunctional America's entertainment industry is and General Brock has a good point about dodgy celebrity agents being apathetic and exploitative towards losers like Elvie Presley a loser who couldn't operate well in mainstream society.

[FSTargetDrone]

Spears is a has-been teeny bopper sensation, chosen for her pretty voice and jailbait good looks.

Her "pretty voice"? Come again? I can agree with the physical aspect (I find her moderately attractive at best) but I've never heard anyone anywhere, ever, describe her voice as pretty! Unless you meant to say "pretty annoying" or "pretty ear-splitting."

Anyway, her kids, what is to be done? I think she's demonstrated a fair amount of incompetence at best. She is apparently out partying when she should be at home with the kids, but they are evidently not a primary focus of her life. She surely has enough money to spend the rest of their childhood with them, at least, paying close attention, but I guess she prefers to go out instead.

[The Yosemite Bear]

Well a superfulousness of money seems to be capaable of buying at least decent minders, and people to raise your children for you. I mean even Franny Cobain seems pretty normal, despite having heroin junkies for parents, and courtney love for a mother. It's scary that she's a 15 year old, who probably knows Groal and Snipe (foo fighters, & REM) better then her own parentts.

[Spanky The Dolphin]

Frances Bean Cobain has my utmost sympathy. I can't imagine what it'd be like having Courtney Love, of all women, as a mother...

Not to mention that she gave her "Bean" as a middle name. Damn crack head parents...

or naming her after one of hollywood's most infamous crazy actresses.... (Frances Farmer)

They named her after Frances McKee of The Vaselines, not Frances Farmer.

[Darth Fanboy]

Yeah, Elvis was too busy shooting TV's and eating Peanutbutter and 'Nanner sandwitches to waste his money.

Yes, but unlike Spears, Elvis was generally regarded as talented (even though he is the all time most overrated musician ever).

[General Brock]

Brock is employing a rather obvious fallacy, in which he believes that the existence of shitty upper-class brats somehow disproves the phenomenon of ignorant redneck trailer-trash. His logic looks like this:

"If any members of group A exhibit behaviour X, then you cannot associate behaviour X with group B".

This is, of course, totally fallacious. The problem is one of ratios, not absolutes. Education is correlated to socio-economic class. Complain about that, analyze it, get mad about it, but whatever you do, it remains a fact. And that means people living in trailer parks will always have a very strong tendency to be ignorant trash.

Hardly. I'm saying socio-economic position is not the sole determiner of ignorance, willful or otherwise, nor is education. A lot of good people live in trailer parks. They may not have the personal means to rise beyond their class, and be less knowledgeable in some things, but they have a sound moral I.Q. insofar as they can exercise it. They won't lie, cheat, steal, or evade personal responsibility any more than they have been taught is acceptable, and no more than a few may exceed this. A lot of good people exist in the middle and upper classes, and also have moral intelligence.

Ignorant rednecks exist in all social strata; some are just lucky enough to be born into wealth or have the knack to make themselves wealthy and well-positioned. They see no problem to lie, cheat, steal, bully, and generally be gratuitous nuisances, as long as they can get away with it.

Needless to say, money can paper over a lot of flaws; a rich sociopath has the means to present a better face to the world than a poor one. The baseline characteristic of the so-called redneck is a failure of emotional and intellectual maturity, and sometimes a strong desire to indulge this problem.

Poor rednecks rarely learn to fake being halfways decent, and stand out more. Rich ones have more opportunities for mimicry; they have the intelligence to learn the outward behaviors of the non-psychopath, even if it isn't heartfelt. They have the means to get 'educated'.

The education system as it stands today focuses on technically, not ethically and morally, qualifying a person to function in society. It does not weed out scammers, or even properly prepare honest people to identify and deal with them. That's left to life experience, that is, the hard way.

While certainly the poor do tend to breed more, it is because they are poor. Rich people don't tend to have as many kids, because they are busy trying to stay rich, or indulging in the perks of wealth. For example, are the wealthier inhabitants of the First World somehow a better kind of human being than the impoverished rapid breeders of the Third, or do they just have more options to pass their time or assure their survival than unprotected sex and a large extended family?

Britney's kids should have the money to get a decent education; whether or not they have the innate intelligence and character to make the most of it remains to be seen. Calling them trailer trash out of hand on account of their parents is unreasonably bigoted without some kind of record of behavior to back it up, or full-spectrum genetic and brain patterning scanning for redneckery.

Even with such a scan, the tone of parts of this thread suggests an attitude towards a final solution that has already proven to be unworkable. Enforced eugenics is a failed social endeavor.

[General Brock]

Spears is a has-been teeny bopper sensation, chosen for her pretty voice and jailbait good looks.

Her "pretty voice"? Come again? I can agree with the physical aspect (I find her moderately attractive at best) but I've never heard anyone anywhere, ever, describe her voice as pretty! Unless you meant to say "pretty annoying" or "pretty ear-splitting."

Anyway, her kids, what is to be done? I think she's demonstrated a fair amount of incompetence at best. She is apparently out partying when she should be at home with the kids, but they are evidently not a primary focus of her life. She surely has enough money to spend the rest of their childhood with them, at least, paying close attention, but I guess she prefers to go out instead.

Since I don't actually own any Spears CDs, her voice didn't make a big impression on me either. However, her career suggests a large number of people find her acceptable as a singer. You'd have to be living in a mountain cave on another planet not to have heard of her.

What can one do about her kids? Apart from fan-mailing her to smarten up, she's supposed to be a mother so act like one, which would be difficult for those who don't like to meddle in the private affairs of others, even so-called celebrities.

Besides, the kids may well be getting better care under their nanny. A lot of rich people do the nanny thing, then send the kids off to boarding school. They provide the best care they can buy, for whatever reason being unable to provide it personally. Federlane is more than likely less concerned about Britney's qualifications as a mother than about her ability to pay substantial child support. Should she die the usual tragic young celebrity death by drug OD, those kids are worth a fortune.

Let her keep her own kids. Her job as tabloid fodder will keep her busy and away from them, she is the lesser danger than Federlane, and under the public eye more so than he, which provides some oversight.

[Superman]

snip

I don't know if this is you blatantly moving goal posts, or just a case of the one retard who always has to stand up when people make statements and say 'nuh uh,' but you've offered nothing to counter what I said. Or what D. Wong said, for that matter.

[General Brock]

However, Kory and Kaleb haven't done anything yet. Its a little early to be looking at them as untermensch, if ever.

I take it those are her kids?

According to a quick Google those are their names.

I don't blame her kids. They didn't ask to have that white trash, drug addicted person as a mother. The problem is that this is the person to whom they will attach, or in this case, fail to attach to.

Its not Britney at present, which may be fortunate for them. If she doesn't get a chance to learn better, perhaps her example will teach Kory and Kaleb something about avoiding trouble.

Paris Hilton, to whom Britney apparently looked up to for guidance on celebrity womanhood, did not come from a trailer park.

I think you're missing my point. I didn't say 'white trash' exclusively; they just happen to the be vast majority of these idiots who are multiplying like crazy.

Well, poor people tend to procreate more; sex is a cheap drug. The only solution would be to stop illegal immigration, punt the illegals, punt anyone aggressively demanding an illegal labour market, and let the indigenous poor do the lower-working class work at the decent wages and conditions a legal labour market and fair employers would demand.

This 'trashy people' notion is pointless. People get messed up. People get exploited, some people need more structure and direct guidance than others, and scammers exploit untouchability; hell, the entire sex trade is founded on this.

The crack in the social safety net Britney appears to have fallen though just happens to be gilded.

The trailer park caste may breed dross from time to time, as well as the occasional gold and silver, but so will every other. That's why the free world doesn't officially enforce a caste system anymore.

From time to time? Are you high? These are the idiot mothers who crap out 5 kids before people who actually work have one or two, usually with different fathers for each one. Please... Have you ever worked in a field where you see this firsthand?

I tend to the opposite of high.

I don't have to work in a field to see it first hand. The Aboriginals of Saskatchewan have been doing the 'trailer trash' thing for decades. Indians have a lot of problems, and they just never recovered from Provincial legislation allowing alcohol on reserves in the 1960s, which gave them just enough rope to hang themselves.

You are concerned with breeding poor blood? Well, the Indian drug addict prostitutes his woman out to breed with white trash for beer money, in addition to the welfare babies he can have with her. The women do it to themselves as well, without any prompting from the men.

The Native population is expected to become the dominant demographic in numbers, at least, in the next few decades. Presently, they well outnumber the destitute white poor, and live in taxpayer funded traileresq houses on reserves and welfare housing about the downtown core. Economically, they remain largely shut out, although the smarter ones not afflicted with FAS or mercury poisoning or drug addiction or overcome by sheer depression at their circumstances can sometimes land a government job in Indian Affairs or a 'Band kleptocracy. You rarely see them even flipping burgers, but there is alway one needing spare change.

Its such an entrenched and subtly enforced culture of victimhood. Soome of the things you can't say about it are the things that keep it going; specifically, yes, some natives do it to themselves (inciting blame-the-victim indignation) - and there a lot of helping hands (inciting class treason).

And, boy, do the people here hate Indians. It's not a 'white' thing. If you're not an Indian, you hate Indians. If you're Metis, you hate Indians. If you're an Indian, you might well hate other Indians. If you are an immigrant from another country, the first thing you learn is that the Indian is that part of the totem pole stuck in the ground, and must ritually affirm to others that its better that way. If you don't hate Indians, of course, you are expected to just nod and smile at being taken into confidence with someone else's problem.

If you are rich enough, you may condescend to the poor people, and can afford to be politically correct about things to the appropriate audiences. You can even hang out with Indians who have somehow managed to make a normal life for themselves despite the odds.

It an insane social condition to contemplate, because, as far as I can determine, people don't want the Indians to be successful middle-class rivals. Just box them up and set them aside, unless a feathered aboriginal is needed for some multicultural event.

The middle-class fear of impoverishment (among other things) is scapegoated onto the Indian. I remember as a child attributing a bad haircut on running into a bunch of Indians, and had had a few bad bad experiences with them prior. It took me a moment to realize something was wrong with my quip, even though it engendered the expected, socially affirming laughs, and years after to finally figure out a little of why such a shameful thing came so easily.

At least the white trash is white, and race politics can't usually be used as a weapon against them.

[Superman]

You are concerned with breeding poor blood?.

I give up...

How about just shutting up until you have something to say? Native people and indians... Do you always have this much difficulty with staying on track?

[FSTargetDrone]

Since I don't actually own any Spears CDs, her voice didn't make a big impression on me either. However, her career suggests a large number of people find her acceptable as a singer. You'd have to be living in a mountain cave on another planet not to have heard of her.

Not to stray too far off topic, but all I meant was that I find her singing voice exceedingly unappealing. I didn't mean to suggest she isn't popular. I just can't believe that so many people find such a grating singing voice attractive. She does not have a good singing voice by any stretch of the imagination, but we can't argue with album sales. Clearly the sexuality and other things play a big part of that. Still, I can only imagine that her fan base has pretty low standards of what is appealing to the ear.

What can one do about her kids? Apart from fan-mailing her to smarten up, she's supposed to be a mother so act like one, which would be difficult for those who don't like to meddle in the private affairs of others, even so-called celebrities.

Besides, the kids may well be getting better care under their nanny. A lot of rich people do the nanny thing, then send the kids off to boarding school. They provide the best care they can buy, for whatever reason being unable to provide it personally. Federlane is more than likely less concerned about Britney's qualifications as a mother than about her ability to pay substantial child support. Should she die the usual tragic young celebrity death by drug OD, those kids are worth a fortune.

Let her keep her own kids. Her job as tabloid fodder will keep her busy and away from them, she is the lesser danger than Federlane, and under the public eye more so than he, which provides some oversight.

I've got to wonder why people such as Spears have children at all. From what little I see, she doesn't strike me as someone who is all that enamored of being a parent. I wouldn't be at all surprised if the pregnancies were unplanned. It's been said before that a lot of people such as herself seem to have children as nothing more than an accessory. Shipping the kids off to daycare or schools with little direct involvement will do nothing to strengthen the mother-child bond. She can literally afford to spend unlimited time with them, but clearly she doesn't seem very interested in that.

My girlfriend worked in daycare for several years and it wasn't uncommon when, after long days at work each week, she would wonder aloud to me why some of the parents of the kids she cared for even bothered to have children at all. Aside from the single parents or those working two jobs, there were more than a few who seemed to unload their children at the daycare merely to free up time for themselves to do other things. Not all the parents were spending their days with busy careers.

[General Brock]

snip

I don't know if this is you blatantly moving goal posts, or just a case of the one retard who always has to stand up when people make statements and say 'nuh uh,' but you've offered nothing to counter what I said. Or what D. Wong said, for that matter.

Darth Wong wrote:

"If any members of group A exhibit behaviour X, then you cannot associate behaviour X with group B".

Whereas I'm trying to say members of group A exhibit behavior X, and members of group B exhibit behavior X, therefore behavior X is not exclusive to either A or B. Therefore, membership in either group A or B is also not a guarantor of the absence of behavior X.

I then theorized that redneckery is a form of sociopathy (learned antisocial behaviors) and psychopathy (inherant antisocial behavior).

Since sociopathy/psychopathy are evenly distributed in the population, regardless of education or income, attempting to associate it with one particular class and focusing ire upon it alone is not constructive and more than a little pointless.

All of which somehow means Britney may as well keep her own kids because Federlane may be about as qualified as she is to be a parent, but she has the economic means to give the kids better opportunities while he does not (except through mooching off her; not a good example for the kids).

The rest is off-topic rambling, which I tend to do a lot since I explore points rather than score them, being more opinionated discussionist than debater.

[Superman]

I've got to wonder why people such as Spears have children at all.

Because they're screwed up. Their failure to be responsible isn't only in failing to use birth control; it's neglecting to realize they would be a bad parent if they actually follow through with having and keeping the kid. Even if they can't fathom abortion, and that's fine, give it up to stable people. Screwed up people kind of live life on auto-pilot; they fail to take any kind of responsibility. This is why they have the most kids. How anyone can doubt this at all is beyond me. I can't tell you how many times I've checked people into our rehab only to later find out they've had 5 kids already... while they were using and drinking.

Kids from situations like this, or from the 'trailer park' culture, typically grow up and do what their parents do because they're not healthy emotionally. They don't have the instinct toward stability and or to be nurturing parents. Fuck, WHAT BETTER EXAMPLE than Brittany Spears? Her only difference is that she happened to suddenly come into money, and the process sped up a bit.

[Superman]

Since sociopathy/psychopathy are evenly distributed in the population, regardless of education or income,

*BUZZZ* That's a big 'you're wrong,' sir.

It's fine to not realize something, but don't stand up and pretend that you do. Ok? A strong correlation between poverty and mental illness has been demonstrated, time and time again. Would you like some sources?

Psychopathy refers to to what the current DSM labels Anti-Social Personality Disorder, or being 'psychopathic.' Did you actually mean psychopathology, or are you veering onto yet another tangent?

[FSTargetDrone]

Because they're screwed up. Their failure to be responsible isn't only in failing to use birth control; it's neglecting to realize they would be a bad parent if they actually follow through with having and keeping the kid. Even if they can't fathom abortion, and that's fine, give it up to stable people. Screwed up people kind of live life on auto-pilot; they fail to take any kind of responsibility. This is why they have the most kids. How anyone can doubt this at all is beyond me. I can't tell you how many times I've checked people into our rehab only to later find out they've had 5 kids already... while they were using and drinking.

Oh, I know. My musings were mostly rhetorical. It's just a shame that children have to suffer for the immaturity and unsuitability of the parents, whoever they are.

Someone like Spears would probably never give up a child for adoption. The media attention (such an event couldn't be kept a secret for long, if at all) would be crushing and perhaps career suicide. Not that the child wouldn't be better off, perhaps, but I don't see it ever happening.

[General Brock]

Not to stray too far off topic, but all I meant was that I find her singing voice exceedingly unappealing. I didn't mean to suggest she isn't popular. I just can't believe that so many people find such a grating singing voice attractive. She does not have a good singing voice by any stretch of the imagination, but we can't argue with album sales. Clearly the sexuality and other things play a big part of that. Still, I can only imagine that her fan base has pretty low standards of what is appealing to the ear.

She sings for trailer trash, you mean to imply? Perhaps. Then one has to wonder how that demographic alone would find the money to enrich her label. Criticisms of her behavior stem from her appeal in 'respectable' suburban homes. Middle class people as well as this supposed trailer demographic also find gangsta rap appealing, although they themselves would not live in a 'hood. For some reason, New Kids on the Block were big as well. No accounting for taste, or perhaps the image is what sells.

I've got to wonder why people such as Spears have children at all. From what little I see, she doesn't strike me as someone who is all that enamored of being a parent. I wouldn't be at all surprised if the pregnancies were unplanned. It's been said before that a lot of people such as herself seem to have children as nothing more than an accessory. Shipping the kids off to daycare or schools with little direct involvement will do nothing to strengthen the mother-child bond. She can literally afford to spend unlimited time with them, but clearly she doesn't seem very interested in that.

My girlfriend worked in daycare for several years and it wasn't uncommon when, after long days at work each week, she would wonder aloud to me why some of the parents of the kids she cared for even bothered to have children at all. Aside from the single parents or those working two jobs, there were more than a few who seemed to unload their children at the daycare merely to free up time for themselves to do other things. Not all the parents were spending their days with busy careers.

Oops. It probably seemed like a good idea at the time for those who were thinking at all.

Again, the practice established by Britain's 18thc wealthy class was nanny and boarding school. Its expected for them. It may be the same way for other social elites; work, networking pressures and perks don't leave much time for good parenting, so parenting by trained strangers is thought to be better for the kids.

Why should it then be surprising that those who can afford it also default to a similar pattern? Daycare, and later private schooling. Some after-school sporting activities are little more than extended babysitting as well; the parents drop the kids off for an evening or two a week all to themselves.

[General Brock]

Since sociopathy/psychopathy are evenly distributed in the population, regardless of education or income,

*BUZZZ* That's a big 'you're wrong,' sir.

It's fine to not realize something, but don't stand up and pretend that you do. Ok? A strong correlation between poverty and mental illness has been demonstrated, time and time again. Would you like some sources?

Psychopathy refers to to what the current DSM labels Anti-Social Personality Disorder, or being psychopathic. Did you actually mean psychopathology, or are you veering onto yet another tangent?

Fine, lets see your sources. Psychiatry can be a wealthy profession, and they are being paid by somebody.

Mine was "Without Conscience: The Disturbing World of the Psychopaths Among Us" by Robert D. Hare, admittedly drawn from a memory that doesn't work to well anymore.

Even if the distribution is not even, and I'd want numbers to conform, it still doesn't excuse a non-constructive blanket condemnation of the 'trailer park' demographic.

By the way, Britney doesn't seem to have come from a trailer trash family; her father was a construction contractor, her mother a teacher. Nice, comfortable working middle class home.

While I think your attitude is sociopathic, a learned dehumanization of poor people, I am beginning to suspect you've got a more serious problem. Psychopathology is itself the study of the disorders, and your manifestations of hostility towards a woman and children you've never even met are disturbing. Your ire towards an entire demographic seems focused on them.

Of course, I never claimed expertise in such matters.