Who's afraid of a big bad rock?

[Admiral Piett]

Or it could be actual neutronium that has somehow been stabilized. In either case, it is clear that ISD's can take an amazing amount of punishment, even with their shields down.

I am not an expert but I know that neutronium is one of the hardest substances in the universe.If I remeber correctly the Everest would be high few centimeters if reduced to neutronium.An iron made asteroid such that which hit the star destroyer should not have damaged the starship if it was really protected by neutronium.It would be like throwing a bucket of water on the armor of a tank.
So basically I can see only two options.
1)Neutronium protects the hull but not the conning tower of a SD.Possible but it would be a stupid design.
2)The neutronium in question is not real neutronium but rather a conventional ultra hard substance.

The second is more likely in my opinion.

[Master of Ossus]

The big thing about neutronium is the following: No one knows if all neutronium automatically expands into normal matter once pressure is released. It is entirely plausible that certain phases of neutronium may exist that are stable. The physics of superdense matter can't exactly be called something testable in a modern laboratory environment. It's at least as likely that no phase of neutronium is stable, but until someone actually gets a sample of neutronium ...

It would appear that, both in the SW and ST universes, certain phases of neutronium are definitely stable. For one thing, way back in TOS, the giant stalactite that chewed up worlds until an entire Constitution-class starship was stuffed down its throat had a hull composed of or at least clad with neutronium. Further, since the Attack of the Clones edition of the Star Wars Incredible Cross Sections books has official and effectively canon status, the presence of neutronium in the armor cladding of large combat vessels in Star Wars is conclusively established.

I concur. I would also point out that the Enterprise's sensors could NOT penetrate the hull of the stalactite-looking thing. This demonstrates, if we are to believe all of this, that beaming on board Imperial ships would be impossible or at least very difficult, even if the ship's shields were somehow disabled.

[Patrick Ogaard]

For fragments of neutronium (AKA superdense matter), consider the following rare but possible scenario:

A widely separated trinary system composed of two seriously big stars forms somewhere in a dwarf galaxy near that of the Galactic Empire. The larger of the stars ages and collapses itself into a black hole. The smaller partner star becomes a neutron star after blasting off its outer layers as a supernova. The supernova and conversion into a neutron star ultimately destabilizes the neutron star's orbit around the black hole, sending the neutron star into a stately death spiral. Eventually, tidal forces rip the neutron star to pieces, the majority of the star's superdense matter disappearing in a merry twinkle of hard radiation.

Then, CALAMITY STRIKES! A fat star nearby pops into a supernova and its furious finale manages to push some of the smaller neutronium fragments away from the outskirts of the accretion disk and entirely out of the relatively weak gravity of the dwarf galaxy. Some few fragments of neutronium manage to make their way into the SW galaxy itself, and an infinitesimal fraction of that neutronium, perhaps a cubic kilometer or three, is eventually mined. Repeat similar scenarios a few times either from without or within the SW galaxy and you've got a potential source of neutronium so long as the neutronium does not spontaneously evaporate into normal matter but rather remains stable.

[Patrick Ogaard]

Also, on the subject of neutronium as armor, if neutronium proves to be a hard substance, good for the Empire. But it is also a ridiculously dense substance, so dense that even millimeter-thick neutronium cladding would constitute a horrifying mass per square meter of plating. The likeliest use would be the same as that of depleted uranium in modern tank armor: the armor is composed of a sandwich of conventional metal alloys by the centimeter or meter and neutronium by the micron or even thinner. The structural strength of neutronium would likely be limited under the circumstances to somewhat less than one would expect, rather like a millimeter-thick sheet of steel plate is not likely to be one-tenth as strong as a centimeter-thick sheet of steel plate of the same basic composition.

My own suspicion is that durasteel is conventional high grade steel that serves as a matrix for incredibly fine neutronium mesh.

[SPOOFE]

As for the OP's assertions, I see no evidence that the Imperial commander's comments about being hesitant to enter an asteroid field were based on a concern for his Star Destroyer's wellbeing. What we DO know is that they tear fighters to pieces... fighters which were their primary tool for pursuing the Falcon.

As for neutronium, I see no reason why they can't simply mine raw materials and compress it down via artificial means until it reaches the density of neutronium. As long as we're dealing with a thousand other implausible pieces of technology, what's one more?

[SPOOFE]

But it is also a ridiculously dense substance, so dense that even millimeter-thick neutronium cladding would constitute a horrifying mass per square meter of plating.

It's described that the armor is "doped" with neutronium. HDS and I like the theory that the neutronium is used in super-thin strands woven into the armor, analogous to steel rebar in concrete buildings.

[Master of Ossus]

That would help to maintain the flexibility of the other metals in the hull, while guaranteeing that the main armor never flexes too much (assuming that neutronium is VERY hard). That theory would make sense. I concur.

[Devils Advocate]

Further, since the Attack of the Clones edition of the Star Wars Incredible Cross Sections books has official and effectively canon status, the presence of neutronium in the armor cladding of large combat vessels in Star Wars is conclusively established.

Conclusively established that something 'called' Neutronium is being used. Sorry but SWU Neutronium is not realities neutronium. This doesn't mean it isn't dense just that it isn't actual neutronium as modern science defines it.

This being the point, it's rather difficult to quantify it's effects/benefits in the purpose of a debate.

[Soontir C'boath]

Armor and weapons are always advancing EX-...when an x-wing has shields that is designed to withstand 50 laser hits b4 losing it. Then the enemy will R&D new weopons to take out that shield faster. Soooo....even if fighters become more durable...there will always be an enemy that will also advance their weapons to take out that durable craft.

Cyaround,
Jason
P.S.- A war is like a contest..whoever has more..more more...will win.

[Admiral Piett]

It's described that the armor is "doped" with neutronium. HDS and I like the theory that the neutronium is used in super-thin strands woven into the armor, analogous to steel rebar in concrete buildings.[/quote]

It is a possibility,of course.But evidently this armor is not enough to stop an asteroid and it would require neutronium which remains stabilized without the help of strong forcefields,something which is difficult to rationalize.
Curtis Saxton's book is official,not canon.
So why not to choose a simpler explanation? That neutronium is just a name given to an hard material.

[Asst. Asst. Lt. Cmdr. Smi]

Didn't it asy somewhere neutronium is found naturally on some planets in the SW galaxy? It could be artificially created, but that's just off the top of my thick head. The Star would probably need some superdense annihlation reactant, on another matter.

[Darth Wong]

So why not to choose a simpler explanation? That neutronium is just a name given to an hard material.

That's not a simpler explanation. That adds an extra term into the equation (this mysterious ultra-hard material which improves thermal conductivity of dura-armour), therefore it is a more complex explanation.

By the way, neutronium is spherical. It will always be spherical. It will not form strands or beams or blocks (or cylinders, ie- TOS Doomsday Machine). If you doubt this, ask yourself why atomic nuclei are never pyramidal or cubical. Therefore, the neutronium-impregnated hull cladding is some kind of metallic matrix in which spherical neutronium pellets are placed. The pellets are not there to increase hardness or tensile strength, but to soak up heat energy.

[Devils Advocate]

The pellets are not there to increase hardness or tensile strength, but to soak up heat energy.

And also to cause the ship to implode instantly.

It's not actual neutronium.

Neutronium cannot be found let alone 'mined' from a planet. Hell, it cannot be 'mined' at all. Unless you happen to be able to drag a black hole around with you to rip small fragments off of a neutron star and then somehow contain the resulting fragments.

Just like a turbolaser isn't a laser nor is it turbocharged.

Just like hyperspace isn't "Light speed", as in "Prepare the jump to light speed". We know they are going faster than c but yet they still 'call' it "Light speed".

A lightsabre isn't light. It may be lite, but it's not light.

[Grand Admiral Thrawn]

It is a possibility,of course.But evidently this armor is not enough to stop an asteroid and it would require neutronium which remains stabilized without the help of strong forcefields,something which is difficult to rationalize.

That asteroid hit the BRIDGE.

[SirNitram]

One instance.. A remarkable find... Of neutronium being mined from a planet. Just the one(Of course, Trekkies interperate this as the rule).

Want me to explain it? A starship crashed there thousands of years ago. Know why it works? The Galactic Republic existed for 250,000 years before ANH.

[Master of Ossus]

That's interesting about the pellets used to soak up energy. The hull must be reasonably conductive, then. I wonder why they couldn't use a more mundane material to soak up energy. Can it really be that hard to find something with a very high specific heat? In any case, they use neutronium in their hulls to allow them to absorb additional punishment. Maybe neutronium is the substance with the highest specific heat in the universe? Whatever their reasons, their ships are extremely powerful.

[SCVN 2812]

Okay, SCVN, once again we have demonstrated that you are wrong. The fighter point is totally meaningless and, really, a waste of our time to talk about. The discussion about neutronium armor is more or less irrelevent. The captain of the said vessel who was hesitant to go into the field probably recognized that there would be some damage to some systems of his ship, or he was reluctant to go into combat again so soon after Hoth. It is also highly probable that he felt the task was meaningless since he felt that the Falcon had already been destroyed, or would be by the asteroids.

I see your mastery of grammar isn't all that it could be, you seem to have failed to notice the past tense phrases here and there in my last post in the this thread. I had a question, I got an answer, seems fairly simple to me although somehow it turned in a 3 page topic, although that seems to be not uncommon here.

[Zoink]

Neutronium:

Please note that all neutronium armour is obsolete, now that quark-matter is available.

http://www.nature.com/nsu/020408/020408-8.html

[Devils Advocate]

One instance.. A remarkable find... Of neutronium being mined from a planet. Just the one(Of course, Trekkies interperate this as the rule).

Want me to explain it? A starship crashed there thousands of years ago. Know why it works? The Galactic Republic existed for 250,000 years before ANH.

So the neutronium was 'mined' from a downed ship? Is there a quote to back this up? Reason I ask is that I have read conflicting accounts if memory serves me.

But still, how is the neutronium 'mined'? You do realize what would happen to the planet if pure neutronium were present don't you? Were the ships systems still functioning? Plus, why would neutronium that is aboard a ship be 'mined'? Wouldn't it be 'salvaged'?

Suspension of disbelief is one thing but this is just not making much sense.

[Master of Ossus]

Why is neutronium armor obsolete just because there is a material that is more dense? When people first discovered steel, iron did not immediately become obsolete.

Perhaps neutronium is much less expensive, easier to handle, or has some other benefits over using your new material. Perhaps this new material CANNOT be used to make armor for reasons we do not yet understand. Then again, we don't understand the construction of armor out of neutronium.

[Darth Wong]

The pellets are not there to increase hardness or tensile strength, but to soak up heat energy.

And also to cause the ship to implode instantly.

Why would they cause the ship to implode? Degenerate matter doesn't necessarily cause the laws of physics to break down, you know. You obviously subscribe to the common (and scientifically ignorant) notion that the gravity produced by superdense matter is somehow irresistible. It is not. Even a black hole's gravity can be resisted as long as you are outside the event horizon (it is theoretically possible to orbit a black hole), and neutron stars don't have an event horizon.

It's not actual neutronium.

You are generating false dilemmas.

Neutronium cannot be found let alone 'mined' from a planet. Hell, it cannot be 'mined' at all. Unless you happen to be able to drag a black hole around with you to rip small fragments off of a neutron star and then somehow contain the resulting fragments.

Or find a natural occurrence of a shattered neutron star somewhere in the galaxy (they've been exploring it for hundreds of thousands of years), and pick up the fragments where they land. Perhaps the planetoid is actually a neutron star fragment which accumulated surface material and therefore appears to be a tiny planet.

Unless someone has evidence to the contrary, I don't believe there is sufficiently strong reason to assume that neutronium will behave in a bizarre fashion once removed from the neutron star. Its only remarkable characteristic is gravity, and since gravity is the weakest force in the universe, that doesn't amount to much in small quantities. Neutronium wouldn't "suck up" surrounding material like a black hole, and I'm not sure it would spontaneously disintegrate quickly. I'm not an expert on degenerate matter (this is some pretty exotic theoretical stuff we're bumbling into), but the most obvious process following removal from the star would be beta-decay, which would produce protons in the object while ejecting electrons. Since protons are electromagnetically repulsive to one another, I see no reason not to speculate that a piece of neutronium would produce a positively charged shell of protons, along with groups of electrons. It might appear to an object like any other object.

Just like a turbolaser isn't a laser nor is it turbocharged.

Bad analogy. Lasers have known characteristics which have been shown to be grossly inaccurate for turbolasers in Star Wars. Neutronium, on the other hand, has characteristics which you have grossly misrepresented (treating it as if neutronium is a black hole, and then exaggerating the behaviour of black holes with this "instantly implode" nonsense). Its actual characteristics can be reconciled with known events, particularly since no one has yet produced any evidence for its rate of beta-decay (thus meaning that it might not even require any kind of stabilization, depending on how low the rate is).

[Darth Wong]

That's interesting about the pellets used to soak up energy. The hull must be reasonably conductive, then. I wonder why they couldn't use a more mundane material to soak up energy. Can it really be that hard to find something with a very high specific heat?

Well, the thermal conductivity of neutronium would be many orders of magnitude above any electromagnetically coupled material, so if the pellets are closely spaced in a surface layer, you end up with a thermally superconductive surface coating with very high volume-specific heat, which would be ideal for warding off thermonuclear explosions at close range.

[Admiral Piett]

That asteroid hit the BRIDGE.[/quote]

The asteroid hit the CONNING TOWER,it did not enter from a window but caused massive damage to the structure.And before you start to churn out
the usual stuff about "the Iowa's bridge has vulnerable viewports" I remeber you that in reality that is only the NAVIGATION BRIDGE.The battle bridge,where officers go during in battle is the part of the ship with the THICKEST armor,for obvious reasons.

[Admiral Piett]

I am not saying that neutronium would suck the hull like a black hole.I am just asking if,once removed from a neutron star it would "explode",with the protons sending the electrons to the normal distance.Because in that case the thin layer of neutronium in the armor would expand destroying or inflicting heavy damage to the rest of the hull.To avoid this some sort of stabilization field would be necessary.And while this may be possible for the technology of SW it would probably be dangerous and impractical (just think to the maintenace and construction problems).

[Singular Quartet]

That's interesting about the pellets used to soak up energy. The hull must be reasonably conductive, then. I wonder why they couldn't use a more mundane material to soak up energy. Can it really be that hard to find something with a very high specific heat?

Well, the thermal conductivity of neutronium would be many orders of magnitude above any electromagnetically coupled material, so if the pellets are closely spaced in a surface layer, you end up with a thermally superconductive surface coating with very high volume-specific heat, which would be ideal for warding off thermonuclear explosions at close range.

How true. Neutronium would be useful for this sort of thing. A large amount of mass would absorb large amounts of heat. (THinks about his own sci-fi verse) It would also slow down kinetic weapons, but it might do bad things for and anti-matter warhead (plenty of reaction mass)