This Month's Darkstar Chortle

[Darth Onasi]

I suppose he feels that if he's the last man standing in the debate, he wins.
Nevermind that most others left due to lack of interest in something that's been gone over a million times.

Pathetic, really.

[Gunhead]

I suppose he feels that if he's the last man standing in the debate, he wins.
Nevermind that most others left due to lack of interest in something that's been gone over a million times.

Pathetic, really.

You're going with the mild version I see.
The mental image I'd use is a 50kg boxer who's been pounded into pulp by Mike Tyson, who is after regaining consiousness doing the victory dance to an empty dark stadium and the janitor is hard pressed to toss him into the street since he's obviously in a state of shock.

-Gunhead

[lord Martiya]

You're too good. My mental image is the mighty Rat-Man (HERE his history) who challenge Superman and claims victory when Superman go to save the world after KOed him with an unintentional sneeze.

[Darth Servo]

Wasn't Evil Imperial banned for making death threats against DarkStar?

I don't recall if it was him, but I know someone at least got in a lot of trouble for making a death threat against Darkstar.

Which really makes his accusations all the more offensive. When he actually was threatened most of the board stood up and bitch slapped the guy who threatened him, including Darth Wong.

The incident which comes to mind was Mike_6002 and DW didn't post in that particular thread.

[BountyHunterSAx]

Actually, after reading the post Mike_numbers made, it really doesn't ever actually threaten DarkStar's life. I mean, sure - implying that people in the messageboards want him dead and are going to kill him is almost certainly criminal (unless his country has very strange laws) but he never actually threatens to carry out the execution or aid those whom he believes are interested in doing so.

-AHMAD

[Darth Wong]

Actually, after reading the post Mike_numbers made, it really doesn't ever actually threaten DarkStar's life. I mean, sure - implying that people in the messageboards want him dead and are going to kill him is almost certainly criminal (unless his country has very strange laws) but he never actually threatens to carry out the execution or aid those whom he believes are interested in doing so.

-AHMAD

Of course he doesn't. If this were a serious death threat, RSA could have had the police subpoena me for the evidence necessary to track down the offender. He knows perfectly well that he's exaggerating.

[Darth Onasi]

The problem is, death threats are just another form of attention to someone like that.
So he'll never let it go, because if he does he might realize nobody cares, and casual observers like me can only pity him.

[Balrog]

Darkstar's still writing? I thought he'd given up, like, back in 2005. The least he could do is make his writing interesting, like using iambic pentameter, instead of repeating the same drivel.

[BountyHunterSAx]

Actually, after reading the post Mike_numbers made, it really doesn't ever actually threaten DarkStar's life. I mean, sure - implying that people in the messageboards want him dead and are going to kill him is almost certainly criminal (unless his country has very strange laws) but he never actually threatens to carry out the execution or aid those whom he believes are interested in doing so.

-AHMAD

Of course he doesn't. If this were a serious death threat, RSA could have had the police subpoena me for the evidence necessary to track down the offender. He knows perfectly well that he's exaggerating.

I see. I read your entry on RSA in the hate-mail section, though I honestly skimmed through about half of the debate as it was excessively long-winded. And I can see that there's no way I'd be qualified to debate this guy. I generally assume that people are being honest and telling me the truth unless it contradicts something I know or believe. In other words, I'm a bit of a sheep. It wouldn't have (and didn't) occurr to me that he would make something like that up.

-AHMAD

[Lord Poe]

I generally assume that people are being honest and telling me the truth unless it contradicts something I know or believe. In other words, I'm a bit of a sheep. It wouldn't have (and didn't) occurr to me that he would make something like that up.

Tell you what. Ask anything you wish (unless the board gets tired of this thread) here, about Darkstar and his claims. We'll do something he can't: provide proof of our claims. Then judge for yourself who's bullshitting, and who's so "eeeevil". SD.net, or Darkstar.

EDIT: Matter of fact, all Q & A's here should go into the wiki under his name.

[Patrick Degan]

And I see Darkstar still hasn't been Certified.

You really have to wonder at this stage if he spends days sitting in his own crap because he can't spare even a moment's distraction from his ongoing quest to win a victory for Star Trek.

[BountyHunterSAx]

I generally assume that people are being honest and telling me the truth unless it contradicts something I know or believe. In other words, I'm a bit of a sheep. It wouldn't have (and didn't) occurr to me that he would make something like that up.

Tell you what. Ask anything you wish (unless the board gets tired of this thread) here, about Darkstar and his claims. We'll do something he can't: provide proof of our claims. Then judge for yourself who's bullshitting, and who's so "eeeevil". SD.net, or Darkstar.

EDIT: Matter of fact, all Q & A's here should go into the wiki under his name.

Perhaps I didn't make myself clear - I *KNOW* he's a liar, I *KNOW* he spin-doctors, I'm just not used to having to read everything somebody says assuming that they are intentionally twisting as much of the truth as they possibly can. If it makes things simpler, I first read about Darkstar from DW's hatemail page before ever seeing his site, though only in its entirety today.


That said, if you're offering to answer questions about Darkstar, I won't look a gift horse in the teeth. Reading a few of the pages at st-v-sw.net I came up with some questions that I remained quiet about, figuring the answer wasn't too important and would crop up sooner or later. Anyway here's my question(s):

1.) How *do* we explain the shadow-analysis in-universe? It's a tad obvious that out-of-universe the scenes were shot at different times and that lighting was probably not provided by some external source. In-universe, arguing that it defies the speed of hyperdrive is the worst way to try to explain it, as hyperdrive's speed is more than established throughout the canon material.

But that still leaves us with shadows that *don't* line up with the real timeline of events in both AotC and RotJ (as explained on Darkstar's site).


2.) Stormtrooper armor. How do we resolve the conflict with regard to its protective power? In AotC, we see them shrug off shrapnel from an exploding LAAT (iirc) in close proximity, but in RotJ, we see them getting their armor cracked by falling impact, rocks, and even arrowheads.

Don't take me wrong, it's not that I accept his re-interpretation on account of not knowing how to refute this argument. It doesn't make logical sense to outfit your soldiers with armor that doesn't aid or protect them, and there are several cases of stormtroopers fighting effectively despite gas-clouds or other obstructions to effective combat. That said, I still see this physical weakness as a contradiction that needs explaining.


thanks.

-AHMAD

[Darth Wong]

1.) How *do* we explain the shadow-analysis in-universe? It's a tad obvious that out-of-universe the scenes were shot at different times and that lighting was probably not provided by some external source. In-universe, arguing that it defies the speed of hyperdrive is the worst way to try to explain it, as hyperdrive's speed is more than established throughout the canon material.

I think someone should first attempt to independently confirm the results of that so-called analysis, keeping in mind that we don't know Endor's rate of rotation or axis orientation relative to its sun. Peculiar shadows are not, in and of themselves, overwhelming evidence unless one assumes that Endor is like Earth. Its gravity is like Earth, but that only suggests a certain size and mass, not a particular rate of rotation or orientation.

2.) Stormtrooper armor. How do we resolve the conflict with regard to its protective power? In AotC, we see them shrug off shrapnel from an exploding LAAT (iirc) in close proximity, but in RotJ, we see them getting their armor cracked by falling impact, rocks, and even arrowheads.

Does he produce any evidence of a crack which we actually clearly see being opened up by an impact, so that we know that it is not pre-existing or a manufactured seam? The only thing I ever saw from him was blurry pictures which were not at all conclusive.

[BountyHunterSAx]

[1] So you're saying the in-universe explanation is that Endor orbits at a different speed or in a different manner than earth does, so what we percieve as 'crazy shadows' are really normal to its orbit? And a similar explanation for the Tatooine-Geonosis shadows?



[2]I don't have the DVDs, which would give a very clear image, so I had to resort to a youtube clip to show the segment he refers to, which is blurry:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lkWJpvNhADU

If you watch between 0:20 and 0:26, we see a stormtrooper who clearly has no shoulder-cracks in his armor, gets hit by an ewok on a rope. As he rolls down the hill we don't get a clear view of his shoulder, certainly nothing that would show a crack. Then we cut to an image of ewoks pounding on troopers with rocks. The particular trooper with the crack in his armor doesn't have any ewoks on him yet, on account of having just fallen. The crack is visible at that point.

The arrow isn't seen to open a hole in the armor, but it *is* seen to stick, and the trooper goes down, that's in another scene 0:12-0:15, and nigh-impossible to see.

-AHMAD

[Darksider]

For some reason the vid won't load for me, but IIRC the arrow in question is pretty clearly sticking out of the black mesh material around the neck, rather than the armor.

As for the crack in the armor, like DW said, a manufacturer's defect. If the instances of higher durability are more consistent than a single example of low durability, which one would you rather rationalize. You said it yourself. Shrapnel from an exploding AT-TE didn't even phase clonetroopers, who were wearing armor that was a good twenty years older than what the Stormies on endor were wearing. Maybe the politically viable stormie legions got the third-rate crap armor from the backwoods factories in the ass end of nowhere, saving the good stuff for the competent units. It's not like they were expecting a lot of opposition, just a small rebel strike team who was carrying weapons that would rather easily penetrate their armor anyways.

[Batman]

Great Valen not that stupid arrow again. That one has been shown to have hit the BODY GLOVE as opposed to the actual ARMOUR how many times so far?

[Darth Wong]

[1] So you're saying the in-universe explanation is that Endor orbits at a different speed or in a different manner than earth does, so what we percieve as 'crazy shadows' are really normal to its orbit? And a similar explanation for the Tatooine-Geonosis shadows?

I don't have to. Darkstar has to show that such an explanation is impossible. He's making the extraordinary claim, he has to provide the extraordinary evidence.

If you watch between 0:20 and 0:26, we see a stormtrooper who clearly has no shoulder-cracks in his armor, gets hit by an ewok on a rope. As he rolls down the hill we don't get a clear view of his shoulder, certainly nothing that would show a crack. Then we cut to an image of ewoks pounding on troopers with rocks. The particular trooper with the crack in his armor doesn't have any ewoks on him yet, on account of having just fallen. The crack is visible at that point.

I honestly can't see anything clear there. You certainly can't see his armour from the same angle before and after the fall. And if the armour is so fragile, then perhaps RSA could explain why the stormtroopers who are clearly being clobbered by rocks do not have their armour crack open. RSA is one of those people who expects you to ignore a huge amount of conflicting evidence in your face if he finds one odd thing that suits him. And you're apparently dense enough to buy it.

The arrow isn't seen to open a hole in the armor, but it *is* seen to stick, and the trooper goes down, that's in another scene 0:12-0:15, and nigh-impossible to see.

-AHMAD

The rubber body-glove has been mentioned too many times to count, on this site and elsewhere. You'd have to be pretty dense not to get it by now.

[Darth Servo]

1.) How *do* we explain the shadow-analysis in-universe? It's a tad obvious that out-of-universe the scenes were shot at different times and that lighting was probably not provided by some external source. In-universe, arguing that it defies the speed of hyperdrive is the worst way to try to explain it, as hyperdrive's speed is more than established throughout the canon material.

Darkstar himself admits the shadow method is worthless in the introduction of his "argument".

But that still leaves us with shadows that *don't* line up with the real timeline of events in both AotC and RotJ (as explained on Darkstar's site).

http://bbs.stardestroyer.net/viewtopic. ... &start=111

[BountyHunterSAx]

I am *NOT* dense enough to buy his bullshit. My naivette in dealing with people aside. Didn't I in the *same* post where I asked the question mention the evidence of stormtrooper armor strength? I am ASKING for the in-universe explanation of THIS PARTICULAR CONTRADICTION, and the one you provided: there was a pre-existing defect, seemed to be easily refuted by the fact that you get a clear shot of the stormtrooper armor prior to him getting knocked down. If you'd said, "I don't know how to explain it in universe." I'd *still* have said, there must be an alternate explanation that we don't know, since obviously surviving shrapnel from an exploding LAAT sets a lower-bound on their strength.

That said, you're right that the camera angle we see the armor from is front and then the crack shows the back, so i've actually don't get a clear shot, and hence the defect in manufacture argument explains it handily.


As for the arrow piercing the rubber body glove explanation, I hadn't seen it; but it certainly makes sense that a primitive tribe would have decent aim at stationary targets with bow and arrows; good enough aim to hit the weak point in armor.



@Servo: IIRC - i haven't been on his site for quite a while - he says that the shadow method is worthless in the case of RotJ, and out-of-universe. My question was is there an in-universe explanation. And yes, apparently altered rates for planetary rotation and orbital angle would provide such an explanation.


Thanks for the answers.

-AHMAD

[Darth Wong]

When one asks for an explanation of a contradiction, he is implicitly stating that the contradiction exists. As I said, you were dense enough to buy half of his argument. The fact that you didn't buy the other half only means you're not as dense as the SFJ kiddies.

[Stark]

Darkstar also claims that Star Trek shields work fine in nebulas, because this one time they didn't collapse on entry. However, that one event doesn't counter all the other evidence, and doesn't 'trump' it at all: the best explanation includes the most evidence. Basing it on ONE event which 'contradicts' all the others is bogus.

[BountyHunterSAx]

@Stark:

Absolutely. In such a situation, we know -in universe- that there must have been special conditions that allowed for the sensors to work. Not being able to find/confirm what exactly that alternate explanation is doesn't prove that it isn't a special case. But being able to come up with a believable alternate explanation *does* give it support.


-AHMAD

[wjs7744]

DarkStar was a bit before my time, but I've read the files, so I guess I have a rough idea about him. I wouldn't mind hearing a bit from those who were around before though, so I guess I'll join in the Q&A.

With that in mind, does he actually still have followers, or has he reached the 'talking to himself' stage yet?

[Aaron]

DarkStar was a bit before my time, but I've read the files, so I guess I have a rough idea about him. I wouldn't mind hearing a bit from those who were around before though, so I guess I'll join in the Q&A.

With that in mind, does he actually still have followers, or has he reached the 'talking to himself' stage yet?

Some of the members of StarfleetJedi follow his methods and quote his website in debates.

For example here you can see Who is like God arbour (who was Avogardo here before being banned) reference Darkstar.

[harbringer]

I have been here a while and before that looked at a newsgroup years ago... I have one or two questions about darkstar :

1) is he aware darkstar is another name for an arsehole?? (in a similar vein to third eye blind or chocolate starfish)

2) what is his obsession with Wayne?? I never understood why he made it so personal.

3) why wont he just try to find sensible ways to solve the problems with his arguments without trying to brute force the result by ignoring canon.

4) is he really a help desk operator? (which leads to the obvious question -since he puts so much time into this how does he keep his job).

any answers would be welcome.