Why are we so enamored of the Japanese?

[fgalkin]

Do you like Japan? Japan doesn't like you

Please note that in Japan, foreigner= "anyone who is not 100% ethnically Japanese"

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

[General Zod]

I figure they want something different, as in, they want something with different lyrics and looks. Not that it's different as in it's "good" or "original".

Gackt fans are the worst.

Pretty much. My main reasons for liking Jpop style music is the fact that it doesn't sound like 99% of everything else I can hear over the radio, so I haven't been completely bored to tears by it yet. Though I generally prefer metal from Japan over the pop stuff.

[Gandalf]

I think it's just because Japan's so very different in every way from what we have in most western cultures.

We had knights, they had samurai. You get the idea.

[Vampiress_Miyu]

They're just awesome at making what (almost) everyone wants. Plain and simple. =P

[VF5SS]

I <3 Gackt. Good lord he's pretty.

[Superman]

My wife just told me about one of these nerds who hit on her back in college. He seemed normal enough (for the first five minutes), but quickly moved the conversation into bragging about his knowledge of anime. Me wife slowly moved away from him and, since he couldn't take a hint, spent the next week avoiding him.

The whole Japanese pop culture thing is seriously one of my biggest annoyances in life. I've always hated 99% of contemporary American pop culture, and Japan has actually succeeded in beating ours in how annoying and stupid it is. My wife still loves it, so I have to find ways of drowning it out when she watches it on TV.

They're just awesome at making what (almost) everyone wants. Plain and simple. =P

If by "what everyone wants," you mean porn, then I'll give you that. If you weed out all the bizarre poop fetishes and rape movies, you can indeed find some extremely hot porn.

[brianeyci]

I wonder how much people are enamoured over "fake" Japanese stuff.

Dubbed anime. Or even the anime that gets licensed over here, a morsel of what's actually in Japan and either watered down or completely different. Knockoffs. Belief in some kind of Tom Cruise Samurai code. Sushi that's made by Chinese store owners wanting to make a quick buck that's nothing like real sushi.

I don't know about people but if I was truly enamoured in a culture I would try and learn the language and the culture. If people knew more about the real culture and language I suspect it would ruin some of the mystery and appeal for most casual Japanese fans.

The WWII thing is a big blight, not because it happened a long time ago but because it continues to fester in current events today, and I can safely say I share distaste at the blatant racism apparent in daily life (not just with Japanese but with most asian cultures.) It's not that there's more racism in asian culture than in Western nations. It's that it seems accepted to be racist, almost a part of life. Remember the guy who said Zhang Ziyi was not Japanese and therefore was a whore for playing one in Geisha? At least in Western nations racists have to hide their racism since racism has become taboo (or they have to weasel their way around it.)

All that being said, I would consider someone a Japanese buff if he was learning the language and history of the nation, and not just anime and eating sushi every couple weeks. The former is real interest in the culture, the latter is just attraction to the exotic. There's nothing wrong about being attracted to exotic stuff and it's probably even healthy, but the person that it's happening to should know that's what it is and not anything deeper.

[General Zod]

All that being said, I would consider someone a Japanese buff if he was learning the language and history of the nation, and not just anime and eating sushi every couple weeks. The former is real interest in the culture, the latter is just attraction to the exotic. There's nothing wrong about being attracted to exotic stuff and it's probably even healthy, but the person that it's happening to should know that's what it is and not anything deeper.

Of course, the moment they find something else that seems just as exotic they'll probably lose interest in it altogether. Hell, whenever I'm talking to someone who's Japanese (female or otherwise) the last thing I'll bring up is anime specifically to avoid looking like your typical weaboo unless they mention it first.

Doing what you described would be like someone talking to a black person and then starting using gangsta slang and hip-hop terms because they don't know anything beyond the superficial pop culture.

[AniThyng]

I remember when I was in high school and we had a couple of japanese exchange students, a friend of mine mentioned he watches sailor moon, and the japanese guy had this look on his face that I think was him trying to politely stifle saying "what a loser"

For those of you here that watch the anime lucky star(which has no shortage of self-referencial jokes at otaku's expense), the absurdity of the whole otaku thing is best exemplified by the scene where Kagami points out to konata and the american otaku exchange student how shallow regarding anime and manga as "japanese culture" is.

@brianeyci:
It's pretty amusing that most asians have no problem recognizing racial discrimination for what it is when they are overseas but forget about it when they are the ones doing it at home.

That said, I suppose you have observed that there is a tendency for asian students in western universities to cluster together and interact only with themselves, no?

[ray245]

@AniThyng
Culture Gap I supposed...Asian isn't as...'liberal' as most westerners in a way.

And regarding the 'racia' discrimation...it is mainly because of ww2. Both countries go insane with each other ever since ww2. Before that...well it may not be as bad...but the chinese did sterotype japanese before.

Almost every japanese to them is a pirate(even if the pirate is chinese).



Although living in a country where anime is basically Mainstream...most people don't have much problem with it. Taiwan is basically a culture that has HEAVY japanese influence. A number of their TV series is based on manga.

Hong Kong and singapore is also greatly influenced by japanese culture...which has reach the mainstream market and audience.

Just asking all the taiwanese here, is japan accepting towards taiwan?



Just a side note, I HAVE been mistaken as a japanese before...

[Anguirus]

I am a huge fan of Godzilla movies and the works of Akira Kurosawa, so that leads to a certain interest in Japanese culture. However, as a student of recent history, I find the actions of Imperial Japan and the current society's refusal to talk about it to be infuriating.

I have a friend who's studying there now. She's a very big anime fan, very enamored of exported Japanese pop culture...but she is really not liking actually living there.

[Knife]

Sorry, I've been to Japan, twice actually. Not the best thing since sliced bread. Interesting, as most new cultures are, but not enamoring.

Best thing I ate in Japan was from a taco shop in Okinawa. Good Mexican food in Japan. I've seen a couple good shows from there, but with the volume they make, it shouldn't be surprising that some of it is fun for me.

So, nope. Not enamored.

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

Dubbed anime. Or even the anime that gets licensed over here, a morsel of what's actually in Japan and either watered down or completely different. Knockoffs. Belief in some kind of Tom Cruise Samurai code. Sushi that's made by Chinese store owners wanting to make a quick buck that's nothing like real sushi.

Well... getting good Japanese food in N. America is tad bit hard (I taste better stuff in Singapore). But that said, a lot of people despised the English-dubbed anime and prefer the English subtitles with Japanese language track.

Not all anime are bad. Some have quite a decent story. Anime in no way portrays Japanese culture. They have a word for foreigners: gaijin. They are as xenophobic as they can really get. No surprises how similar they are to the Nazis in WWII.

That said, I suppose you have observed that there is a tendency for asian students in western universities to cluster together and interact only with themselves, no?

Hell yes. That happens for a majority of the foreign students.

[Ford Prefect]

Of course, I'm talking about Anime, Ninjas, the OMFG I WISH THEY WOULD RELEASE ULTRAFIGHT COMBO POWER DRAGON 7 IN THE US crowd, Otaku, Manga, and anime. Also anime. Catgirls. What the hell?

When did it happen and why does it persist? Maybe it's just the circles that I move in that I'm hyper exposed to this..err...phenomenon, but I mean...why?

You know, I'm going to just hazard a guess here ... maybe it's because some people think that sort of thing is cool? You might as well ask the same question but with stuff like books, Hollywood movies or British comedy series.

They have a word for foreigners: gaijin.

How exactly is their language having an equivalent word for foreigner in any way remarkable?

EDIT: Not even negative usage of the word can be considered to be remarkable; it's not like Australians or Americans or the French are really that less 'xenophobic' compared to the Japanese. If I had a dollar for every time I heard a person making some disparaging comment about people of other nationalities I'd have at least four hundred dollars.

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

How exactly is their language having an equivalent word for foreigner in any way remarkable?

It was meant in the derogatory sense. It's no secret that there's some serious racist underlinings.

EDIT: Not even negative usage of the word can be considered to be remarkable; it's not like Australians or Americans or the French are really that less 'xenophobic' compared to the Japanese. If I had a dollar for every time I heard a person making some disparaging comment about people of other nationalities I'd have at least four hundred dollars.

There is a serious difference between muttering a few curses, and going on a genocide across Asia.

[Ford Prefect]

How exactly is their language having an equivalent word for foreigner in any way remarkable?

It was meant in the derogatory sense. It's no secret that there's some serious racist underlinings.

I apologise for my apparently late EDIT (damn you're quick).

[Ford Prefect]

Stop being so goddamn quick on the keyboard!

There is a serious difference between muttering a few curses, and going on a genocide across Asia.

What? What the hell are you talking about? What recent genocidal crusades have the Japanese embarked upon? Do they commonly perpetuate continued violence against peoples of other nationalities in some sort of institutionalised fashion?

Because if you're talking about World War II, or if you're going back further, I've got some stories to tell you about Tasmanian history. The genocide perpetuated in Australia isn't so old either. We don't do it any more, but we did. They did it in Europe too. And America for that matter.

[Shinova]

I'm not enamored with Japanese culture. I do appreciate some parts of it, such as their inclination towards politeness and their love for cleanliness, and I don't appreciate some parts such as their dislike of outsiders and their collective-minded society.

Anime, manga, and games do not represent Japanese culture. It's that simple. It's sheer fantasy, and Japanese culture is portrayed in a different way and light. You can say it's a sort of a little more idealistic Japanese culture that's portrayed by the entertainment industry, or at least some of it.

I am absolutely enamored with anime, manga, and games as works of art and entertainment. American cartoons have their place and audience, but for more adult ages that kind of stuff just doesn't do anything for them really anymore. Some anime, on the other hand, deal with serious themes and complex stories. There's really nothing like them in the States.

And that distinction goes on for manga and games. Even moreso for games cause their very often low budget with not much to go for graphics and effects, so they have to make up for it with sheer story weight.

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

Stop being so goddamn quick on the keyboard!

There is a serious difference between muttering a few curses, and going on a genocide across Asia.

What? What the hell are you talking about? What recent genocidal crusades have the Japanese embarked upon? Do they commonly perpetuate continued violence against peoples of other nationalities in some sort of institutionalised fashion?

Because if you're talking about World War II, or if you're going back further, I've got some stories to tell you about Tasmanian history. The genocide perpetuated in Australia isn't so old either. We don't do it any more, but we did. They did it in Europe too. And America for that matter.

While what you say is true, there is no denying that some segments of the population are definitely not remorseful about what happened back then and now you even have revisionist history textbooks around. I hope nothing bad comes out of this history revisionism, to put it mildly. It doesn't help that they would even go as far as deny a lot of their own war time atrocities. This racism is quite simply a symptom of a greater problem.

[General Zod]

While what you say is true, there is no denying that some segments of the population are definitely not remorseful about what happened back then and now you even have revisionist history textbooks around. I hope nothing bad comes out of this history revisionism, to put it mildly. It doesn't help that they would even go as far as deny a lot of their own war time atrocities. This racism is quite simply a symptom of a greater problem.

And a word that has been around for hundreds of years is somehow indicative of this?

[Ford Prefect]

While what you say is true, there is no denying that some segments of the population are definitely not remorseful about what happened back then and now you even have revisionist history textbooks around. I hope nothing bad comes out of this history revisionism, to put it mildly. It doesn't help that they would even go as far as deny a lot of their own war time atrocities. This racism is quite simply a symptom of a greater problem.

The revionist stuff is pretty much the only thing I can't just say 'oh, but other countries do that too'. While I was alive when the Australian government finally admitted that attempts were made to destroy the aboriginal inhabitants of Australia (And I'm only eighteen), that's not quite the same.

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

While what you say is true, there is no denying that some segments of the population are definitely not remorseful about what happened back then and now you even have revisionist history textbooks around. I hope nothing bad comes out of this history revisionism, to put it mildly. It doesn't help that they would even go as far as deny a lot of their own war time atrocities. This racism is quite simply a symptom of a greater problem.

And a word that has been around for hundreds of years is somehow indicative of this?

Well, the way it is used now. I am not sure how it was used hundreds of years ago, though the way words are used change with the passage of time.

Admittedly, this sort of thing is not limited to the Japanese.

[AniThyng]

While what you say is true, there is no denying that some segments of the population are definitely not remorseful about what happened back then and now you even have revisionist history textbooks around. I hope nothing bad comes out of this history revisionism, to put it mildly. It doesn't help that they would even go as far as deny a lot of their own war time atrocities. This racism is quite simply a symptom of a greater problem.

Do japanese pacifists, the kind who do not like the JDF spending money on more high tech weapons systems also deny the atrocities of world war 2?

I'm not entirely certain that japan is the only country guilty of world war 2 revisionism - China certainly has its own reasons to play it up, but Taiwan has always seemed much less antagonistic - and even Malaysian history textbooks have a slant that in the long run, the rise of japan in ww2 was good insofar as it gave the mat sallehs (malay slang for white man) a bloody nose and helped speed up our independence post war - they even talk about how japanese ingenuity and technological superiority helped crush the allies early on!

Mind, this was in a national malay-medium school - it's possible a Chinese medium school would be a lot less sympathetic.[/i]

[Darth Raptor]

Obsessed? No. Interested? Yes. Enamored? Certainly not. I find Japan interesting. But I also find China, Korea, Russia and pretty much any distinct culture that's not part of "Western Civilization" interesting. I find a lot to admire, and a lot to condemn. On the whole, I'd say I live in a superior culture. Sure the western world isn't perfect, but we're still trying and we've made a lot of progress. It has nothing to do with race and everything to do with geography, resources and pure, stupid luck. But whatever the reason, what we have is still better. There are things we can learn from them, sure. But there are things they need to learn too. I may be something of a xenophile, but I'm far removed from a xenocentrist. Most of what I like about Japan in the first place is the product of their emulation of us. What does that tell you?

I'm a nerd. I like comics, cartoons and, most of all, videogames. For that reason alone, it's only natural that a lot of the stuff I buy comes from Japan. A lot of the stuff I buy comes from the United States, too. Because those are the only two countries that really export their entertainment (Britain to a lesser extent).

In the case of anime and manga, it's pure aesthetics. I like the way it's drawn, and the East Asian (by that I mean S. Korea and Japan) concept of male beauty is much closer to my own than anything out of Europe or the Americas. Besides, anime is too broad to be a genre. It's a style of art encompassing many, many genres. Science-fiction, fantasy and pretty much everything in my bag can be found in the animation style I like. I certainly don't like all anime. Anime is like live action film and television. There's good stuff and there's crap. More crap, really. I've always liked cartoons for as long as I can remember, but western animators just don't cater much to kids who, despite their best efforts, grew up anyway. And when they do make something for the adult market, it's usually shamelessly sloppy and ugly.

[General Zod]

Well, the way it is used now. I am not sure how it was used hundreds of years ago, though the way words are used change with the passage of time.

Japanese has changed relatively little in structure, many of the Japanese kanji are identical to Chinese characters they originated from, even if the pronounciations might change slightly according to region. So I'm failing to see how the word would somehow magically be changed to be indicative of some modern mindset.