StarDestroyer.Net BBS

Johnny von Braun sat back from his desk, still feeling elated about the circumlunar flight. True Murcan patriotism had prevailed.

It had taken many sleepless nights of mental wrangling before he could bring himself to pick up the "Approved by the Director" stamp and authorise the flight. So many horrible possibilities, so many terrible ways it could go wrong...but it had not. Johnny Olds had indeed carried the torch for the late Bob Johnson. No doubt old bob's spirit had been with Hermes IX.

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Out of context, fuck yeah!

Truly, Comrade Kerman is a most skillful tank driver. Though exactly what to do with him will require some thought. A man who can fly a free-return trajectory, or reasonable approximation thereof, by dead reckoning is not a man to be trifled with.

Also, what's our projected budget for next year? Can I get an estimate on that?

The budget office says 85, but it may not have taken the latest prestige gains into account, so it will probably be somewhat higher.

Oh, another question.

For a joint Earth orbit lunar module test, what's the stacking on the rockets? Is it:

Lapot/DM
and
Duet Module

or

Lapot
and
Duet Module/DM

If it's the latter, that would be sweet... why do I suspect it's not the latter...

i am away from my computer at the moment, so it will take me a couple hours to check this

No hurry.

I have checked. The hardware is stacked in the following way:

Launch A: Duet, docking module
Launch B: Lapot

For lunar orbital LM test, EOR (the only type of a joint lunar orbital LM test available to you without Kicker-A):

Launch A: Duet, docking module
Launch B: Lapot, Kicker-B

So it's actually pretty sensible. I am shocked.

Secret Squirrel chuckled in his small tree fort. Either way, he won. If he snuck onto their base and sabotaged things, he won by ruining their plans, and if he didn't, they became so crazy by being deprived of alcohol that they were fighting each other while in space. He would have to do additional sabotage, just to keep make sure the Zenobians stayed sober.

PeZook wrote:I have checked. The hardware is stacked in the following way:

Launch A: Duet, docking module
Launch B: Lapot

...I can do Duet tests with a pair of boosted A-Series!!!



This way, I'm spending 14 MB on rockets, 2 on the DM and 8 on the lander per test, for 24 MB per.

For lunar orbital LM test, EOR (the only type of a joint lunar orbital LM test available to you without Kicker-A):

Launch A: Duet, docking module
Launch B: Lapot, Kicker-B

So it's actually pretty sensible. I am shocked.

This would allow me to do joint EOR missions to the moon, with a lander, using... cost would be the boosted Proton and a boosted A-Series, plus the Comrade Module-bis, the DM, and Duet, for 39 MB per. Cost for an actual lunar landing would be the same.

The logical test programs, without using an N1 for anything, would be:

-Three joint Earth orbital tests (equivalent to Apollo 9, but with joint launch), total cost 72 MB
-One joint Earth and one joint lunar/EOR test (equivalent to Apollo 9 and 10, but with joint launch), total cost 63 MB
then
-Manned lunar landing, joint EOR, cost 39 MB (without N1)

Of course, Comrade Kerman cannot pilot a lunar orbit LM test, because he would go for a landing, falling to the temptation Stafford resisted.
_________________________

Using an N1 to launch a historical stack for earth-orbital LM tests would actually cost money, since one N1 costs more than two boosted A-Series. Using a (boosted) N1 to launch a lunar-orbital LM test would save... basically nothing, since the boosted N1 costs 22 MB, versus 16+7 MB for the joint launch.

This is not looking good for N1. I wish I'd worked this out ahead of time; we'd be a good deal ahead in the program if I hadn't put 90 MB into it because I thought it would be competing cost-wise with a pair of boosted Protons.
_________________________

PeZook, I want to be sure that I can send a Lapot-Duet-DM-Comrade Module stack to the moon, using Earth orbit rendevous, by launching the Lapot and kicker on a boosted Proton and the Duet-DM combination on a boosted A-Series. The weights check out, but will the game let me use the Semyorka to launch anything for a lunar mission?

Likewise, I want to be sure that I can do a joint Earth orbital LM test by launching Lapot on a boosted A-Series, and Duet/DM on a boosted A-Series.

The weights should work out. I really hope they do. Can you double check for me?

I think you would really love the "Atlas Lunar Missions" option in 1.0.0 that lets you use the first-tier rockets for it - it means the Soviets can do Soyuz Joint EOR on R-7s. It's so dirty. You can actually skip all of the other rockets and never develop anything else.

If we were playing that version, I'd think I'd have to make a gentleman's agreement not to do it that way. It's just wrong.

But I wouldn't feel I was cheating doing lunar lander tests using pairs of A-Series in Earth orbit. Especially not with the budgetary shit I've had to put up with...


EDIT: Oh, one more thing. Is a lunar orbital a milestone for anything but a manned lunar landing? Can I perform lunar lander tests without a successful lunar orbital?


EDIT MK II: And... one more thing. I idly wonder, what would have happened had we not gone for the gentlemen's agreement on minishuttles. I would probably have gone for Soyuz/Kicker-C; I don't know what the Murcans would be doing. Historical lunar landing, Apollo/Saturn V perhaps?

No; the Lunar Orbit LM test also counts as the Lunar Orbit milestone, actually, so it's possible to skip right to that to get the milestone after the Lunar Pass if you're in the position to do it.

Ah. That makes me wonder if I should maybe cancel my Lunar Orbital and double up, doing (essentially) Lapotapollo 9 and Lapotapollo 10 in preparation for my moon landing. I need to think this one over...

It's also a little annoying that this game has no such thing as an unmanned LM test when historically the US and Soviets both did that - the US with Apollo 5 - an LM launched on a Saturn IB, and the Soviets with Cosmos 379, 398, and 434, launched on Soyuz rockets; that would make things a little handier.

Unfortunately, due to the quirkiness of the game, lunar missions have to be done with a proton/titan, even if theoretically, the actual work of ejecting your stuffs from earth orbit is done by the kickers.

Earth orbital LM tests can be done with the R-7 though.

Darn Muricans, looks like this race might be right down to the wire after all.

Comrade Chief Designer, while your slow and steady waiting for the best possible odds before commiting to anything approach has served us well, it may be coming close to the time we may have to take risks and otherwise just gamble to see if the dice roll in our favour.
Spoiler

OmegaChief wrote:Darn Muricans, looks like this race might be right down to the wire after all.

Comrade Chief Designer, while your slow and steady waiting for the best possible odds before commiting to anything approach has served us well, it may be coming close to the time we may have to take risks and otherwise just gamble to see if the dice roll in our favour.

Yeah, I know. But I still have to strike a balance- if I launch a mission with a 10% chance of success, the odds are overwhelming that I'll suffer a huge setback that pisses away everything at a time when I won't be able to recover, so it's a stupid gamble.

I've got enough time to do everything that needs to be done, but I don't have time to start over from scratch if something gets screwed up. So I'm trying to figure out the best way to do things, balancing my limited time, my limited funds, and my limited ability to bounce back from a disaster if one should occur. For instance:

-Should I try for a lunar orbital next season, because I need the prestige and there's at least a substantial chance of a Murcan failure that would let me gain massive prestige with a milestone first? Or do I delay and combine the lunar orbital with an LM test, so as to reduce my expenses and exposure to risky launches?

-Is it better to do three earth orbital LM tests, which are individually cheap? Or one earth orbital and one lunar orbital LM test, knowing the lunar orbital LM test is expensive and more dangerous than any one earth orbital LM test?

-Is it better to sink about 70 MB into the N-1 rocket to get it up to a reasonable reliability in exchange for cheaper "Lapot+LM to moon" launches? Or is it better to use pairs of boosted Protons to do the same job, knowing that this will be more expensive?

Sigh...


EDIT:

Basically, I'm pretty sure my 'safest and cheapest' plan for the Moon would be to scrub the current lunar orbital, then do "Apollolapotski 9, 10, and 11:" an Earth-orbital LM test, a lunar orbital LM test, and a manned lunar landing. The last two of those missions would be a good deal cheaper if I had the N-1, because boosted-N-1 costs 10 MB less than a pair of boosted Protons, but the development costs for the N-1 are really substantial.

The problem is that if I do this, I lose potential prestige up front from the lunar orbital, which impacts my budget in future years. On the other hand, I also lose risk- I am flying only three more manned missions, and it's a bit easier to hope that all three of those will succeed.

If I don't scrub the lunar orbital, then I must still fly three or four more missions- I can replicate the "Apollolapotski 9/10/11" sequence, or I can do three "Apollolapotski 9" missions in Earth orbit followed by a manned lunar landing. Total cost is likely to be higher, since I'm flying either one Earth and three lunar, or three Earth and two lunar, missions before the end of the game.

Note that I haven't actually done the math for any of this yet- I'm just throwing it out there for consideration.

In other news...



North Kerbalistani Proletarians Salute Comrade Kerman!

Here, we see factory workers in a North Kerbalistani underground bunkerfactory as they cheer the Intercosmos hero Jebediah Kerman for his successful return from the moon.

Comrade Kerman first came to the attention of the internationalist community after his involvement in the North Kerbalistani space program in 1971. Using a modified ZiG-25-and-a-half interceptor, a jumbo-deluxeski oxygen bottle, and a truly astounding number of JATOid rocket boosters obtained from Murcan-South-Kerbalistanian airbases by valiant North Kerbalistani revolutionary guerilla vanguard echelons, the ingenious socialists of North Kerbalistan succeeded in setting a national altitude record of 82 km, thus meeting international definition of a space flight.

Unfortunately, the rocket-boosted fighter's maneuver performance at ultra-high altitudes proved less than satisfactory, requiring a brilliant demonstration of Kerbal-modified Zenobian ejection seatski technology. Comrade Kerman exfiltrated South Kerbalistani territory with the aid of an elite MINION squad. After his debriefing and a modest eight-week sequence of patriotic parades, he was accepted for the Intercosmos program.

So when Jeb stops his infernal GRINNING, you know the shit has really hit the fan?

Jesus H. Bend-Me-Over-And-Fuck-Me-With-A-Rake Christ.

Zenobians, you really need to do some kind of exorcism on your shuttle after that flight. Only a bizarre combination of circumstance and sheer luck brought that one off. I nearly had heart failure just reading the goddamn mission log.

Looks like things are proceeding well, guys. Murcans need some more recon and some more docking missions, but that's not exactly news. Do we still need to knock off Duration D? It'd give us an orbital flight to space things out while we wait for the LM to be ready for tests.

We had Comrade Kerman, Grey. Success was inevitable!

You would have loved to have seen my face, Simon. "Thank God, work's done, let's see what happened in Let's Play BA- OH JESUS NO! No, it's okay, they got the chance to- OH GOD, NO, they wouldn't! They did. Holy fuck, they did and they're getting awa- SWEET CHRIST NO, wait...wait...not dead? Not dead?"

Fuck, if you'd asked I would have said BARIS didn't *have* two errors in its database that didn't kill the whole crew.

Simon_Jester wrote:We had Comrade Kerman, Grey. Success was inevitable!

Yes. Jeb Kerman redefines every outcome as success, thus making success inevitable!

Da. The only problem now is that we need a Commienist exorcism process for Avrora. Not sure what that would look like.

Comrade Commissar? I think this one's up to you...

Commissar walks into Avrora. Stares hard at walls. Outdated non-commienist entities leave their hiding places and flee in panic.