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Crossroads Inc. wrote:Also I don't think CO2 will be that big a problem. Our populations per vault will be rather low given the amount of available space.

Yes, but air circulation in a mine can be total crap.

I don't know how much plant life is required to convert sufficient CO2 back to O2 but it's a lot, quite possibly more than we'll be able grow. What sort of filtration/ventilation/circulation system will be needed is an interesting question.

And I'm curious how big that pool is, too.

I'm currently sketching out a couple different pods. A medical pod which will basically contain a small ER, OR, and In-Patient/ICU rooms. I'll be basing it on the ER and hospital that I work at. And the second pod will be a security pod which will contain a control room/dispatch, a pair of holding cells, and the armory.

I would think modeling it on an ICU unit would be best. Centralized nurses station with iso pods around the nurses station. Maybe 10-12 pods for the unit. If we have more than 5% of the population down and out bad enough to not be in their room sick, we're all in trouble.

Well, the ER is also going to be used for triage and treatment of small injuries that don't require check in. And the ICU/In-patients will be the center nurse with ten rooms all facing the nurses station. There will also be the spaces for storage, clean holding, locked pharmaceuticals and a couple doctor exam rooms for routine checkups and things.

Broomstick wrote:

Crossroads Inc. wrote:Also I don't think CO2 will be that big a problem. Our populations per vault will be rather low given the amount of available space.

Yes, but air circulation in a mine can be total crap.

I don't know how much plant life is required to convert sufficient CO2 back to O2 but it's a lot, quite possibly more than we'll be able grow. What sort of filtration/ventilation/circulation system will be needed is an interesting question.

And I'm curious how big that pool is, too.

Well I'll be honest, I design things to look nice, Scale is usually a bit iffy. I'd go off of the spa in the back, thats about (in my mind) a 5 person spa, so you could go from there for the rest of the size. Also I forgot to add bathrooms in the changing/shower area. Also found some more information for water filtration for the pool and other things. Apparently this company HERE sells machines that it claims can filter over 10,000 gallons of water PER DAY. A few of those placed through out the Vault would go a along way for water needs... Though we need something more Hard core to deal with the Sewage that would build up.

Also, can't believe I forgot about a Medical Pod. Remembering that, we'll need a Dentistry Pod as well.

And something for those of us who wear glasses... somebody is going to break their glasses over the course of 10 years. Well, I suppose we could have spares, but vision changes over time...

Broomstick wrote:And something for those of us who wear glasses... somebody is going to break their glasses over the course of 10 years. Well, I suppose we could have spares, but vision changes over time...

Isn't it funny all the little things you start thinking of when your putting together a small "city" ?

Crossroads Inc. wrote:Though we need something more Hard core to deal with the Sewage that would build up.

That's why I mentioned composting toilets - they drastically cut down on sewage volume, and have the benefit of recycling waste into something usable.

One thing that came to me while observing this thread is what you are going to do with your dead. We have a decade inside this small city and it's inevitable people will die during this period. Either by illness, an accident, other people or natural causes. Where are you going to put the bodies? Are you going to have an area dedicated to a cemetery or somewhere to cremate bodies. I guess someone here may suggest "recycling" or using them as compost but that is likely to upset quite a few people. Yes this state of dwelling in the city is a one of necessity but people have not been modeled to such survivalistic measures.

Well... how would people here like the dead to be handled?

Eh, if its a survivalist bunker, and I'm killed, use me for my organs, blood, bone marrow and whatever is left. As long as its after I'm dead.

Speaking of which, we'll need a blood and/or organ bank in the medical pod.

The easiest way is probably to keep a few sets of protective clothing on hand that would enable us to survive above-ground for long enough to dig a grave and bury a body.

I would say cremation, but then what do you do with the ash and smoke?

Also a bunker is wonderful, but what if the disaster is a Flood?

Carve me up for organs and cremate the rest. That's what'll happen to me in the end anyway, so it makes no difference if it's in a SD Net Bunker or a hospice.

Then would you make such a donation of organs and other vitals a mandatory option or make it an optional one. Of course, please consider that there is a limited spectrum of deaths which would leave the organs useable and even then, one has to be swift in claiming them. Added to the fact that many would be incompatible.

I am stuck between cremation an burial .

Guys - there no way we'll be doing organ donations. First, we haven't got any transplant surgeons. Second, it takes more than a surgeon, it takes a team of like 20-30 people to pull off an organ transplant. Third, there's no way we'll have the capacity to produce anti-rejection drugs.

Well, OK, Chewie and his identical twin brother might be able to swap organs, but other than that, just forget it. It's not happening.

As for cremation - if you actually do cremate someone completely you could recycle them into the agricultural part of the enterprise. Or keep them in an urn if someone is sentimental. After all, the ashes from an adult are only about 1-2 kilos, it's not that much stuff.

Actually, after my bout with cancer I can't give anything beyond blood to anyone. I'd vote cremation, its the least space-intensive and most efficient.

Ok folks, first part of many, is done. I give you the ER Pod. It is a six bed/one trauma unit. Red is the ER beds, maroon is trauma, the nurse station is in the center there, blue is for the bathrooms, light green is the locked pharmaceutical, dark green is clean holding (otherwise known as a storage room, food, water, ice, wheelchairs, stuff like that), brown is a on-call room with a bunk bed, coffee, snacks, and a couch. The yellow are parking spaces for mobile computer terminals and the purple is a blanket warmer. The ER staff will be two RNs (one being the charge nurse), a doctor who can also do trauma work, and three nurse assistants. The bottom right ER room can also be made into an isolation ER room if we need to. Now, if we want to keep the staff/footprint small on the medical pod, the trauma room can double as the OR.

R1X5.13 wrote:I would say cremation, but then what do you do with the ash and smoke?

Real government survival type bunkers simply have a crematorium with a vent to the outside. Spring loaded Blast valve close the vent if the bunker is subject to atomic blast or similar massive attack from the outside. Unless the bunker has nuclear power, which no known bunker does, running fully sealed for more then a few days is unrealistic. You need external air and you need external cooling. Going all internal would require a massive heat sink besides all the other trouble it would be.

Also a bunker is wonderful, but what if the disaster is a Flood?

Site the bunker on land high above the floodplain so even a 300ft high wall of water wont drown it. Having a bunker anywhere near water table is a pain anyway, because the ground will be soft and unable to support its weight without massive foundations, and you'll have constant water leaks. Concrete is not waterproof.

Been meaning to ask this for a while, but do we have any members in VA or West Virgina?
Feel one of the things holding this back is that we don't have a proper location to actually begin designing the Vault proper, and just individual pods.

A note on burial, it is sad to think that we may ot have the means for organ translant, as I am sure many on the board have no problem with donating perfectly usable parts to someone else. That said Cremation is probably the best option for most of us as there will be air ducts leadign to the outside to vent with.

Did want to thank Fisher for the Med Pod, curious to see Brooms or someone elses take on rendering it.

Just wanted to let folks know - I haven't forgotten about this, but I have had a busy week so I'm unlikely to have new sketches until the weekend.

Found this on Yahoo news.
Not exactly significant for purposes of Surviving an apocalyptic scenery, BUT, it's nice to see how you can live underground AND in style.