StarDestroyer.Net BBS

We also have the option of jamming and pickling everything we run into. Every glass jar that can maintain a seal can be used and reused to preserve food.

We can't really get anything resembling a canning operation going but jams and pickles could easily preserve large amounts of food.

There is also the classic Lobster bake and Clam bake that there should be plenty of supplies for on the island. The amount of Lobster and Shellfish should be astounding in the local area.

LadyTevar wrote: But we will need cooks.. and to feed everyone we'd need what the SCA calls an "AllDay Sideboard", where food is set out for people to help themselves, and items change as the day moves to evening. Tha's going to be a lot of people doing KP duties, fixing the food, while one person is HeadCook.

That will only be possible when we actually have food production going. Surviving the first winter will require rationing.

I think cooking and housing is a couple of the best reasons why we would have to organize at a massive level. Everyone with their own little suburb house on the island would be foolish, as would the thought of 3000 people cooking their own meals every day with our resources. I'd be an advocate of finding a block or so of 'down town' Nantukut and having the total population live there and hoard and ration our food stocks. One crew or rotating crews cook on huge meal a day, Wong has a good idea with the soup, perhaps bread too, and left overs in the morning for breakfast.

Serious tribal notions would have to come back, such as food and other resources are the property of the tribe, not the individual.

On the technological front, I watched that 'Colony' show last summer on Discovery about post apocalyptic survivors in a dead city. They were using gassification of wood to make hydrogen to run cars and a generator. With all that wood at our disposal, we'd have a constant power source for some engines.

I would advocate a central living area, the bigger buildings of the place, worry about food stores from what is left on the island, worry about fresh water and collection of it. I'd worry about simple defensive strategies, and sewer systems. After that we can get all complicated and worry about farming, naval training, and girls.

There is a huge diesel generator plant for electricity on Nantucket which, though decommissioned around 2000, hasn't been demolished yet, just to let everyone know... If we have oil of some kind of which can be used to fire diesels, plentiful of electrical power for the entire island could be easily provided.

Doesn't the island also have its own water purification plant? If so, then once we get enough power to it we could solve the massive issue of getting enough clean water. Of course, the question is, what can we use in place of diesel that we could get a plentiful supply of?

I agree that certain things will be communalized and centralized, food being the biggest one, especially the first year when we will have to ration what we have and try and get enough people fishing to not all starve. I'm sure getting the vast majority of people into the city core will also be useful, although unless they're stirring up shit like hoarding food or trying to engage in subversive activities, trying to force everyone into the core rather than strongly encouraging it will probably be more trouble than its worth.

Academia Nut wrote:Doesn't the island also have its own water purification plant? If so, then once we get enough power to it we could solve the massive issue of getting enough clean water. Of course, the question is, what can we use in place of diesel that we could get a plentiful supply of?

Again, the wood gas might be a better option on some generators and/or car engines with alternators. Plenty of wood to burn for it.

I agree that certain things will be communalized and centralized, food being the biggest one, especially the first year when we will have to ration what we have and try and get enough people fishing to not all starve. I'm sure getting the vast majority of people into the city core will also be useful, although unless they're stirring up shit like hoarding food or trying to engage in subversive activities, trying to force everyone into the core rather than strongly encouraging it will probably be more trouble than its worth.

You know, I'd advocate taking over what ever the locals have for a high school or middle school. Should have plenty of rooms for everything from housing, bunk rooms, to storage, to a large central room for meetings, socializing, and eating, and have a large kitchen for mass food preparation. We'd have to figure out if we could keep using the bathrooms in some form, dumping water in after the waste or whatever, but for the most part a modern high school or such would suit our purposes quite well.

It was brought up earlier but bears mentioning again, search/recon teams going out and going house to house getting food, water, usable tools and the such. Perhaps marking houses as they go with chalk or tape or whatever is on hand. Marking as searched, or marked as something usable that could be gotten later. Those teams should also shut down furnaces, heaters, water heaters and turn off the water mains as they go. Future teams could collect gas and other suplies as we need them and I'm on board for the deconstruction project once we get settled.

For found food, if we have people with the knowledge, we should save any fresh fruits and vegetables for planting next year, other fresh food eaten as it comes, and canned food or dried food for storage and rationing. Our major problem would be organizing the huge amounts of resources we have on hand at the start, rather than worrying about when those resources give out.

Knife wrote:For found food, if we have people with the knowledge, we should save any fresh fruits and vegetables for planting next year, other fresh food eaten as it comes, and canned food or dried food for storage and rationing. Our major problem would be organizing the huge amounts of resources we have on hand at the start, rather than worrying about when those resources give out.

Alton Brown made beef jerky and dried herbs using a box fan and air filters. I wonder if certain kinds of fruit could be dried in a similar fashion?

Going off Wiki there are six schools on Nantucket: two public elementaries, a private school, a middle school, a high school, and a community school. Overall the capacity of these schools are about 1,200, with 400 in the high school, so we probably can't cram everyone into a single location. Still, we can probably use schools and the hospital as the centres of the community.

As to the organization, it will all be about initiative. Whoever can get things rolling first will be able to build up momentum. Groups that are doing their own thing and aren't being disruptive will probably be allowed to keep doing their own thing at first, no sense disrupting those who are being productive. Within the first week there will probably be moves to start coordinating and consolidating, and whoever has been busy and working constructively during that time will have a leg up.

KrauserKrauser wrote:We also have the option of jamming and pickling everything we run into. Every glass jar that can maintain a seal can be used and reused to preserve food.

We can't really get anything resembling a canning operation going but jams and pickles could easily preserve large amounts of food.

There is also the classic Lobster bake and Clam bake that there should be plenty of supplies for on the island. The amount of Lobster and Shellfish should be astounding in the local area.

If there's a pressure cooker to be found on the island, I know how to use it to can. It would have to run pretty much 24/7 during the growing season to make even an appreciable dent in our winter food problems, but it couldn't hurt.

Rogue 9 wrote: If there's a pressure cooker to be found on the island, I know how to use it to can. It would have to run pretty much 24/7 during the growing season to make even an appreciable dent in our winter food problems, but it couldn't hurt.

Preserves will be a source of precious vitamins, especially vitamin C. Even in small quantities, they'll be essential to our good health during winter months, so jamming is a good investment of our scarce resources.

So...looks like we have some cooks who know how to handle logistics of feeding many people, we have a couple good organizers with leadership experience and at least two sailors to train crews for fishing.

Things are looking up Any other useful skills? Like crossbow hunting?

Academia Nut wrote:Just a thought, but one interesting thing to think about would be some of the cultural ones, particularly from such a close mingling of a wide variety of people from around the world. Especially considering how bored a lot of us would be, even if we're working long days. One thing to consider would be the revival of work songs, especially amongst the population set to the tasks of cutting down wood and other mundane, make work. I can totally see new music springing up ala the prison work songs of African-Americans. Then again, we might just figure out acoustic and a capella versions of current popular music.

Of course, if we got there were some Russians who could teach us the Volga Boatmen's Song and others to keep the classics alive, that would be pretty epic too.

One also imagines what we would look like to others around the world considering our multiculturalism. Of course, that might be secondary to our seemingly magical technology, but still, might be an extra bit of weirdness for Bronze Age cultures.

Lagmonster studies oral history, and I know quite a few popular Scadian songs, including variations on "What do you do with a drunken Sailor".

JN1 and Shep's spam split.


OT: I can aim and fire a crossbow and a simple recurve. However, my marksmanship needs a LOT of work. I'd almost suggest using the ammo and rifles we'd have on hand for hunting, but I'm sure the Mess and others worried about protection would nix that idea. Still, it's rather hard hitting a deer with a bow, much less rabbit, squirrel, or other small game. I think Seafood would be a stable until we get experienced hunters.

Anyone know how to set rabbit snares?
Better question: Anyone know anything about TANNING leather? Sooner or later, we're going to need it.

Sorry about a potentially overlong post, but:

If we get the entire modern island, merely minus the human population, then the initial job of survival should not be at all insurmountable. The island is equipped with lots of resource infrastructure, per this laundry list:

Fire department
Observatory (8“ and 24“ telescope)
Lots of backup power generators throughout the island, and a possibly recoverable primary diesel generator
19-bed hospital with imaging department
Various medical practices (esp. GPs and dentists)
Company renting out, selling, installing and maintaining power generators
Many houses equipped with septic tank systems
Water company using approx. 90 2.5“ wells to supply the island
Vodka distillery
Brewery
Metric buttloads of B&Bs and corporate retreat-type buildings suitable for efficiently housing groups of ten to twenty people each
Some slightly larger hotels, like The Veranda House, that could easily hold thirty to forty people
Bartlett farm, an organic farm with a large loft suitable for meetings (rated at 60 persons), or as a dorm for farm workers, and with 20 large greenhouses
Two commercial cranberry bogs, one organic
Three lighthouses
Squam farm, which hosts a breeding flock of sheep (wool, mutton, cheese!)
Lots of old farmland apparently well suited to growing potatoes
Some small pottery operations (with kilns, pottery wheels, etc.)
A busy little airport, complete with supporting infrastructure and likely several aircraft
Public Elementary, Middle and High School (with library)
Public library
About 360 commercial boat slips with supporting infrastructure (and possibly a lot of boats)
Pets everywhere, if they don‘t disappear with the original human population
Island Weaves and Nantucket Looms both use non-mechanized looms, which should be a millenium ahead of anyone else‘s (and we‘ve got wool, once we figure out how to process it)
Several goldsmiths (and thus their workshops)
A police station with gear for at least 40 officers
A wireless internet provider (WiBlast)
3 FM radio stations
cable/Internet service (and PlumTV, available on both, with facilities on the island)
about 30 or so backyard beekeepers (honey and wax!)

Horse ownership is relatively common, so there might be several dozen horses available. Sea Pony Farm has a few Icelandic ponies and a pair of miniature donkeys, to boot.

The island apparently has a serious issue with deer overpopulation, as in a 2005 estimate placed the population at 2,600 white-tail deer (introduced in 1922 to a previously deer-free island). And that‘s even with shotgun, archery and muzzleloader seasons for deer hunting. Thus, hunters residing on the island will have weapons to match the seasons they participate in. The island should have a fair supply of slug-firing shotguns, various muzzleloaders, and bows (and though crossbows may not be legal for deer hunting, some people will have them). Basically, any experienced hunters should have a field day, and jars of potted venison should soon be on the shelves alongside cranberry preserves.

Another thing to remember is that the beaching of dead or dying whales apparently used to be common enough on Nantucket that native tribes would send expeditions to the island for the express purpose of harvesting the carcasses. With easy access to the primeval Martha‘s Vineyard, there might be even more harvestable whale carcasses. Scavenging whales would be eminently sustainable.

Nantucket is well known for scallops, and for those that can stand them, they would be another useful source of calories.

Cattails are easily identified, and practically all parts of the plant are edible, especially the starchy rhizomes. If someone can find and identify bayberries, we‘ll have a source of fragrant candle wax. Martha‘s Vineyard might be a good choice for that kind of foraging, but the interior moors of Nantucket might also furnish cattails.

LadyTevar wrote:
Anyone know how to set rabbit snares?
Better question: Anyone know anything about TANNING leather? Sooner or later, we're going to need it.

Yes. Though it is more about number of traps than skill but...

Tanning, no. But from what I hear, it would be good 'punishment' duty.

I just realized we'll have a crapload of various books on a whole slew of subjects, so lack of some skills can be corrected with a lot of reading and some trial&error. Just from looking at my own bookshelf at home, I have books on sailing, navigation, a wildlife atlas that includes plants, several camping guides, an anatomy atlas, guide to herbs, geographic atlas.

I'm pretty sure somebody will have books detailing stuff like wool processing, leather tanning, etc.

From what I understand, tanning started when people noticed that hides would be preserved if they were placed into an oak tree stump that had filled with water. After a while, people started taking oak chips and using them in other containers of water.

Eventually we finally discovered pure tannic acid.

Also, on the topic of wool, it's actually fairly simple to process. You take a clump of shorn wool, and rub it back and forth between two brushes (cards) until it forms a roughly cylindrical shape called a rolag. You then take the rolags and spin them into yarn, which can then be used for knitting or crocheting.

Now, if Nantucket has any museums with brushing machines or spinning jennys on it, we'll really be in luck. If not, the spinning jenny is a pretty straightforward device (it was invented in the 1800s and was built entirely out of wood back then).

Well, I'd imagine boiled leather would probably be first. Though I also assume with ~3k some houses on the island, we have enough textiles and cloths to last a while.

The Spartan wrote:Alton Brown made beef jerky and dried herbs using a box fan and air filters. I wonder if certain kinds of fruit could be dried in a similar fashion?

Yes (I dehydrate my own fruit and veggies along with making jerky). All a small dehydrator is a fan/heater with grills over top. Unfortunately the shelf life is limited to around a year for fruit and veggies and three months or so for meat, provided it is stored properly.

Properly=clean, air tight containers. Stored in a cool, dry, dark place. Freezing is preferred. Light and heat will cause the food to deteriorate. faster.

OT: I can aim and fire a crossbow and a simple recurve. However, my marksmanship needs a LOT of work. I'd almost suggest using the ammo and rifles we'd have on hand for hunting, but I'm sure the Mess and others worried about protection would nix that idea. Still, it's rather hard hitting a deer with a bow, much less rabbit, squirrel, or other small game. I think Seafood would be a stable until we get experienced hunters.

Handguns or shotguns would be preferred for "policing" if thats your concern. Most of the rifles could be given over to hunting.

Anyone know how to set rabbit snares?

I know how to trap a lot of things. I can do freshwater fish seining, mist nets for birds (we can use a badminton net for that actually), I can also trap turtles, snakes, and can successfully farm frogs, and cockroaches (food for the frogs...)

Thus, hunters residing on the island will have weapons to match the seasons they participate in. The island should have a fair supply of slug-firing shotguns, various muzzleloaders, and bows (and though crossbows may not be legal for deer hunting, some people will have them). Basically, any experienced hunters should have a field day, and jars of potted venison should soon be on the shelves alongside cranberry preserves.

This would have another benefit. By reducing the deer population and helping to maintain a more healthy well filtered watershed leading to the various ponds through the idland (deer overshoot carrying capacity very readily and decimate understory and their root systems in watersheds. Their populations dont asymptote at carrying capacity because the plants can support increased populations for a short time...), we reduce the need for water treatment plants. Most of the bacteria that we find harmful in above ground water supplies comes from mammal dung. E. coli, giardia and the like. Water supplies that have healthy well maintained watersheds do not require chemical treatment (there are only a few of these left in the US. One of which is in MA, or was as of 2000)

That having been said, it would be well within our capability to build filtration systems that do not need large amounts of power. Charcoal filtration, sand leaching etc. More than likely we will be able to find texts on the subject.

Cpl Kendall wrote:

The Spartan wrote:Alton Brown made beef jerky and dried herbs using a box fan and air filters. I wonder if certain kinds of fruit could be dried in a similar fashion?

Yes (I dehydrate my own fruit and veggies along with making jerky). All a small dehydrator is a fan/heater with grills over top. Unfortunately the shelf life is limited to around a year for fruit and veggies and three months or so for meat, provided it is stored properly.

Properly=clean, air tight containers. Stored in a cool, dry, dark place. Freezing is preferred. Light and heat will cause the food to deteriorate. faster.

Yeah, but since our main concern with storing food is primarily having them last long enough for winter stores making dried fruit (in addition to preserves) can be a year round process. Plus that would save room in the freezer for meat and other fruits and vegetables that can't be dried.

The dried stuff also allows for supplying work parties that aren't able to come back to town every night and, should we start doing so, exploration parties.

The Spartan wrote: Yeah, but since our main concern with storing food is primarily having them last long enough for winter stores making dried fruit (in addition to preserves) can be a year round process. Plus that would save room in the freezer for meat and other fruits and vegetables that can't be dried.

The dried stuff also allows for supplying work parties that aren't able to come back to town every night and, should we start doing so, exploration parties.

Oh, I'm not objecting. Just letting you know the limitations of dehydrating.

As a side note, you can also freeze dry any meat you happen to get in the winter. Seeing as there are a bunch of available buildings, a warehouse type building could be set aside for drying meat in the winter. It involves little more then letting the cold air in, a bunch of fans on the meat would help as well. You can use the same technique for drying clothes.

On the drying/smoking side, there are apparently already a few small fish smoking operations on the island, and using their hardware would be a no-brainer.

On the hunting side, the island is also supposed to be generously supplied with imported Eastern Cottontails. Extensive hunting should be combined with attempts to establish captive breeding populations in hutches. Also, let's hope lyme disease and tularemia don't become unmanageable problems. That's where extensive hunting of the deer and rabbits would be useful to reduce the populations of tick motherships.

Rabbit hunting could certainly be conducted with snares, but bowhunting with blunts is another ammunition-saving method, and the more destructive-minded of the younger board members might want to learn how to use use throwing sticks to clobber rabbits at a distance.

Between deer and rabbits there should be plenty of hides available for trying out and perfecting fur and leather treatment techniques. Brain tanning, and fur removal by means of slaked lime and the lye from wood ash should produce a basic, usable product. For smaller amounts of lime, we could use the classic technique of putting seashells in a bonfire (or maybe in a barbecue grill). Lime will be necessary for the production of mortar in any event.

Also, let's hope lyme disease and tularemia don't become unmanageable problems.

We will also have to deal with plague. The last case in the eastern US I remember happened in 2002 in New York, but it is reasonable to think, because of the ubiquity of rats in any area inhabited by people and their movement from area to area by human shipping, that plague infected rats were on Nantucket when it was transported back through time. We do not normally have large issues with it because of sanitation. However that sanitation will become more and more difficult through time. Rodent populations and our proximity to them and their fleas will increase. As it stands now, with treatment 14% of cases are fatal. Eventually we will run out of Tetracyclin.

Oh dear. I suppose our only saving grace will be that hopefully the majority of our population won't stand fleas having gone our lives without having to deal with the parasites, and our knowledge of how critical hygiene is making it one of our top priorities, just behind food I would think. More worrying I suppose would be the migration of the rats on the island to the mainland. I know that rats can swim and swim well, but can they make the hop from Nantucket to Martha's Vineyard to the mainland without stowing away on boats? Would they if they could? And once on the mainland, how ecologically damaging would they be? I suppose the rats on the island may be more dangerous to the indigenous peoples than us if they carry Y. pestis.

A quick search indicates that rats are a problem on the island. Thus a state program to pass out free rat poison to island residents.
http://www.boston.com/news/local/massac ... t_problem/

As a bonus, though, apparently there's also plenty of ducks on the island. Duck Soup, it's not just a Marx Brothers movie anymore. However, it's probably not going to be a good idea to overindulge in duck, as waterfowl may not be as resilient as deer, rabbits and rats when it comes to withstanding the pressures of hunting. Plus, the ducks can just pull up stakes and head for greener ponds outside our reach if things get too tough for them.

Basically, I suppose every available and improvisable rat trap should be employed, and any non-domesticated rats encountered should be destroyed. Also, any boats heading to or from the island should be carefully checked from stem to stern and port to starboard for unwanted passengers. A policy requiring ship's cats and, possibly, ship's dogs might also have to be instituted, with the requirement that they be neutered males so if they do jump ship they won't give rise to feral populations down the road.

Blanched rat carcasses might find a new lease on life, so to speak, as chum or bait for fishing.