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It's because there's nothing more to say about Odds. I expect a renewal of hostilities once her Odds Q&A comes out in a future issue of SW Insider.

If only, it appears that she has decided to go “private” with her trolling over at TF.N.

Posted by DarthSapient

Good morning, everyone. It is with deepest regret I have to do this, but the negativity and quantity of posts against Karen Traviss and other authors has gone on way too long. It's abusive and you are driving our VIPs away. I get e-mails daily from Karen about the way she is treated in here and I've had it. This is a real person and I will protect her good name and those of anyone associated with the saga on this site before pandering to these snide little remarks anonymously made behind a computer. You have no idea of the e-mail exchanges between me, the Lit mods, the admins, and the site owner about 15-20 of you here.

And quotes of offensive material from here on out are offenses. They always have been, but even moreso of a tougher stance in this thread and a few others.

.....ergo any Karen-related thread


Karen is apparently in constant communication with Board Moderators at TF.N, and has them securely fashioned to her ankle by a metallic leash.

I do believe that, beyond the sniping of Dp4m, there were three other moderators taking part in “cleaning” up the ODDS thread, and issuing ambiguous statements about harassment, trolling, baiting, etc…

It helps that none of these moderators have actually defined what these things are, and that the update over in TF.N’s communications forum said absolutely nothing of substance, beyond we need to show the “utmost respect” for people with colorful screen names.

In fact Dp4m asked me to change my signature, “Looking out for..” me awhile back, and when I asked him what TOS rule I hade violated by mentioning Karen Traviss, I was told none but oh well, change it anyways…

Punishment is beyond reproach when quantification of offenses is never presented.

Karen has the TF.N Administration falling all over themselves to curry favor...its a joke

IceHawk-181 wrote:If only, it appears that she has decided to go “private” with her trolling over at TF.N.

Posted by DarthSapient

Good morning, everyone. It is with deepest regret I have to do this, but the negativity and quantity of posts against Karen Traviss and other authors has gone on way too long. It's abusive and you are driving our VIPs away. I get e-mails daily from Karen about the way she is treated in here and I've had it. This is a real person and I will protect her good name and those of anyone associated with the saga on this site before pandering to these snide little remarks anonymously made behind a computer. You have no idea of the e-mail exchanges between me, the Lit mods, the admins, and the site owner about 15-20 of you here.

And quotes of offensive material from here on out are offenses. They always have been, but even moreso of a tougher stance in this thread and a few others.

.....ergo any Karen-related thread


Karen is apparently in constant communication with Board Moderators at TF.N, and has them securely fashioned to her ankle by a metallic leash.

I do believe that, beyond the sniping of Dp4m, there were three other moderators taking part in “cleaning” up the ODDS thread, and issuing ambiguous statements about harassment, trolling, baiting, etc…

It helps that none of these moderators have actually defined what these things are, and that the update over in TF.N’s communications forum said absolutely nothing of substance, beyond we need to show the “utmost respect” for people with colorful screen names.

In fact Dp4m asked me to change my signature, “Looking out for..” me awhile back, and when I asked him what TOS rule I hade violated by mentioning Karen Traviss, I was told none but oh well, change it anyways…

Punishment is beyond reproach when quantification of offenses is never presented.

Karen has the TF.N Administration falling all over themselves to curry favor...its a joke

This has become so ridiculous so I'm at loss for words. With all due respect for Karen Traviss, but if she can't handle that a few people are having a discussion on an Internet board...

What due respect? I'd love to see those whining emails. I can just picture her reading the thread and getting all upset, but not actually having the intestinal fortitude to argue the issue in any sort of environment where some ass-sucking moderator on a power-trip can't shield her from criticism.

What I found is that Karen Traviss is intellectually dishonest in debate and her grand understanding of Logical Fallacies comes from her deployment thereof. She refuses to address the possibility that she made a mistake, refuses to acknowledge the possibility that she did not delve far enough into the research, and refuses to accept responsibility for her parts in the supposed flame war between here and the “talies”.

She has a screen name over at TF.N and could engage in the debate at any times.
She chooses not to, claims it is due to a great conspiracy to attack and libel her, and instead sends proxies she knows she can unduly influence.



I dare say that, while she is an author, she cannot debate logically.

She fears trouncing, not libel.

Vympel wrote:What due respect? I'd love to see those whining emails. I can just picture her reading the thread and getting all upset, but not actually having the intestinal fortitude to argue the issue in any sort of environment where some ass-sucking moderator on a power-trip can't shield her from criticism.

Absolutely. As Icehawk is pointing out below, KT refuses to acknowledge that she could've made an error (which we all know she has done). She has never responded to any of the points that have been made and when she's posted challenges and those were answered, she has refused to respond.

What challenges were given and answered? I don't want to have to dig them out.

I think its so very hilarious that a supposed adult degenerates to this kind of level when faced with criticism. What makes it so much more funny is the fact that KT is a writer, publishing public works and she goes to such lengths to remove any criticism towards those works and her own person.

The pure arrogance of her and her followers is simply amazing. Now they are even trying to supplant the MOVIES with their bullshit. Its just pure gold, oh how I wish that ol George would smack that bitch up about now

CaptainChewbacca wrote:What challenges were given and answered? I don't want to have to dig them out.

It was the one that's included in the "discussion" between MoO and KT on Lord Poe's KT page. It was Kane Starkiller who responded to them but no answer was given.

I personally regarded this muzzling outrageous and hypocritical as Traviss herself has shown to be a troll herself in some forums. I have no idea how and what possessed the TFN forums to bow to her wishes.

It won't matter. Many debates in TFN are not worth indulging, especially when the Mods practically said that any author criticism was not considered a bannable offence.

They just banned Dan-K for "pushing his agenda". I don't hold some mods in high opinion, after one them threatened me with a ban for something I had not made explicit.

Fingolfin_Noldor wrote:They just banned Dan-K for "pushing his agenda".

They what?! Then again, I shouldn't be surprised. Many recent events have shown just how corrupt the TFN mods are.

Jim Raynor wrote:

Fingolfin_Noldor wrote:They just banned Dan-K for "pushing his agenda".

They what?! Then again, I shouldn't be surprised. Many recent events have shown just how corrupt the TFN mods are.

Someone has to remind the TFN mods that there's such a thing as "benefit of the doubt" and preemptive banning stifles a discussion the same way a communist party ruled country or a single-party ruled country would do.

Howdy, Fingolfin!

This is indeed getting ridiculous. I'll continue posting on TF.N, but I've lost all respect for the staff there that's been involved in this (excepting Quest). I wish there was a way to discuss the issue publicly with them, but I honestly can't think of a way to go about it without getting banned again...

What's really irritating is Sapient's pouty "our VIPs are getting driven away" nonsense he keeps going on about. The fact of the matter is, no VIP has left due to bad treatment or whatever since Traviss-- and, as has been shown multiple times, she did NOT leave due to fan behavior-- she left BEFORE the debate over the initial article started. And, I'll note, back when Traviss was still in good graces with everyone (after Hard Contact and before GttGAR) she still had a penchant for jumping down people's throats who didn't care for HC-- at one point (although I don't feel like searching for it) I remember either her or Kaufman initiating one of those "dogpiles" cited by the mods against a user who had the temerity to dislike HC.

Honestly, Wallace, Pena, Corroney, Stradly, Stover, Denning, Hidalgo, Ens, Hodges, Ostrander, and Duursema all still post away there, same as ever-- hell, the latter two have been recieving alot of flak even over there about their upcoming comic series, but they take it in stride rather than running away or sending "daily e-mails" to the head admin.

I don't even care about the numbers or whatever anymore, I'm just sick of the blatant hypocricy and bias shown by the staff at a site I truly enjoy posting at.

Hey 000,

Yeah, I got really pissed by Sapient's post. By what he said, he effectively declared a lot of threads as out of bounds. Heck, we can't even grumble about author inconsistencies in our Fleet Junkie Thread. Traviss' behaviour was unbecoming as I witnessed in some of the links given in the Odds thread. I hardly think her of deserving any civility after what she posted on her blog.

I have far greater respect for Wallace , Ostrander and Duursema as they know how to handle criticism. But the rest? What? Is this a dictatorship of authors?

Decided to come to this forum especially after the recent nonsense and bias shown by the mods.

Yeah, I wish the mods would realize that Traviss's behavior is an anomaly. All of the VIPs have recieved their share of criticism, whether directly or not, and they all take it in stride and continue posting. They might even get irritated, like Stover does, but at least they face their critics head on and don't snipe from afar.

000 wrote:Yeah, I wish the mods would realize that Traviss's behavior is an anomaly. All of the VIPs have recieved their share of criticism, whether directly or not, and they all take it in stride and continue posting. They might even get irritated, like Stover does, but at least they face their critics head on and don't snipe from afar.

She's remarkably childish about protecting her "baby". And she uses a lot of ad hominen in her counter arguments

maybe we could get something done if we actually sat down and instead of arguing about it, sent a Letter stating your discontent with the 3 Million number. we don't need to call Karen a ***** and such. so she made a Mistake. is that enough to send her hate letters?

darthbane wrote:maybe we could get something done if we actually sat down and instead of arguing about it, sent a Letter stating your discontent with the 3 Million number. we don't need to call Karen a ***** and such. so she made a Mistake. is that enough to send her hate letters?

Much like your last post, I'll ask did you even read the related topics?

Be amazed that most of the particpants here didn't call her a bitch, didn't threaten her but were harassed and banned.

Oh wait, you didn't did you?

darthbane wrote:maybe we could get something done if we actually sat down and instead of arguing about it, sent a Letter stating your discontent with the 3 Million number. we don't need to call Karen a ***** and such. so she made a Mistake. is that enough to send her hate letters?

I did exactly, exactly that. After only one round of correspondance, in which I didn't use any profanity what so ever, didn't insult her, and generally behave quite nicely towards her, I was branded a stalker, and she banned me from her email inbox. I can pull up the letters, if you'd like.

Ghost Rider wrote:

darthbane wrote:maybe we could get something done if we actually sat down and instead of arguing about it, sent a Letter stating your discontent with the 3 Million number. we don't need to call Karen a ***** and such. so she made a Mistake. is that enough to send her hate letters?

Much like your last post, I'll ask did you even read the related topics?

Be amazed that most of the particpants here didn't call her a bitch, didn't threaten her but were harassed and banned.

Oh wait, you didn't did you?

yes i read the laast post. i'm just giving my opinion. no Words, No Name calling. what did i do wrong?

darthbane wrote:

Ghost Rider wrote:

darthbane wrote:maybe we could get something done if we actually sat down and instead of arguing about it, sent a Letter stating your discontent with the 3 Million number. we don't need to call Karen a ***** and such. so she made a Mistake. is that enough to send her hate letters?

Much like your last post, I'll ask did you even read the related topics?

Be amazed that most of the particpants here didn't call her a bitch, didn't threaten her but were harassed and banned.

Oh wait, you didn't did you?

yes i read the laast post. i'm just giving my opinion. no Words, No Name calling. what did i do wrong?

Darth Wong said it best:

darthbane, you have to understand that the rules are different here. In most forums, you get in trouble for being rude or aggressive. In this forum, you get in trouble for not putting enough effort into your post, or for not bothering to read the thread up to that point.

Yes, you basically said things which had been gone through for many pages already. Just a friendly reminder to read up on it, if it's not an overwhelmingly huge thread. :)

Why hasn't anyone mentioned this? (If someone has, I'm sorry I missed it).

The name of Karen Traviss' blog. It's "Cannon to right of them, cannon to left of them...noble Three Million!" I have trouble believing that she fails to recognize the delicious irony of that statement. Oh wait, she's an idiot, of course I can believe it.

For those that have not read "Charge of Light Brigade", a poem by Tenninson. It is about a British cavalry unit assaulting Russian guns in the Crimean War and getting slaughtered.

Noble Ire wrote:

darthbane wrote:maybe we could get something done if we actually sat down and instead of arguing about it, sent a Letter stating your discontent with the 3 Million number. we don't need to call Karen a ***** and such. so she made a Mistake. is that enough to send her hate letters?

I did exactly, exactly that. After only one round of correspondance, in which I didn't use any profanity what so ever, didn't insult her, and generally behave quite nicely towards her, I was branded a stalker, and she banned me from her email inbox. I can pull up the letters, if you'd like.

Actually, could you post your entire correspondence?

As or you, darthbane, I just love this little snipe you took over on TFN.

DarthDubya05 wrote:not to get off the subject here, but i addressed this issue over at www.stardestroyer.net, and somebody calledme a D******. i mean, i read the thread title " the Karen Traviss Database" typed in that i think 3 million is a low number, and somebody gets all on me, saying " Read the title before posting, D******." at least over here, we don't have that many people calling Karen a ***** and such.

http://www.geocities.com/enderandloki/SSTmain.html

here is a link where somebody tries to explain both sizes of the clone and droid armies as best they can. a very good observation.

In case you couldn't tell, on SD.net it doesn't matter AT ALL if you swear at people or are rude to them. We don't care. If you want to post here, then get used to it. If you don't like it, get lost. We have no need for whiny brats like you, as you should have been able to tell by our motto at the top of the page. "Get your fill of sci-fi, science, and mockery of stupid people." There is nothing wrong with mockery of stupid people.

darthbane wrote:yes i read the laast post. i'm just giving my opinion. no Words, No Name calling. what did i do wrong?

Had you bothered to read the topic, you'd realize that we already did what you suggested. Only after Karen blew us off on the original topic on TFN (or via private correspondence, as the case may be) did people start swearing at her. No one cares about swearing and "name calling," here, because we value substance over style. Read the threads before you post, and read the Announcements before you return.

Off-topic, who self-censors like that? If you're not big enough to use adult words like the terrible 'dumbass' or the deeply offensive 'bitch', don't PRETEND to and use hashes to censor it. That's just LAME. Fuckass.

Frankly, that he complains that he read a 9-page thread TITLE then posted damns him. You know what those 9 pages are full of? People smarter than you talking about the topic. Golly gosh, the obvious suggestion had already come up!