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Ford Prefect wrote:However it's $100 more than the PS4, which has been confirmed to lack online DRM, connection requirements, codes for games etc.

What exactly did Sony say regarding DRM ?

Specifically: Will Sony do anything when a developer puts their own DRM into a game ?

Specifically it was said that there were would no always online components and no usage restrictions on discs, so no fee to resell or whatever.

You think holiday resorts don't have internet connections?

Y/N XBox One won't work when dog kicks out WiFi router cord? Like I can't play my game not work?

Having a clear answer on that would require Microsoft to be not totally incompetent. The online component is either a requirement to be online at all times to play (so your dog may cause catastrophe) or the Xbone needing to phone home once a day to authorise your games. They've said both at one point or the other. The former is obviously less inconvenient than the latter, but at about the same level of bullshit.

The one saving grace is apparently you can name accounts to use all your shit at any location, but I mean there won't be an NBN in Australia in future so I dunno how good that will actually be :v

Y/N XBox One won't work when dog kicks out WiFi router cord? Like I can't play my game not work?

Every single XBone game has to check in once per 24 hours. On top of that, some games can potentially use Xbox Live's cloud processing capabilities to offload certain tasks to remote servers, meaning that even a momentary loss of connection could screw up everything, but it remains to be seen how many games will actually use that (and to be honest, I doubt any will at launch).

Really though, a more likely and problematic scenario is your internet connection going down and your ISP dragging their feet on repairing it. If it's down for more than 24 hours, guess what, you aren't using your XBone again until it comes back.

Or another very real scenario for not having it connected to the internet for over 24 hours. You're moving and your Xbone is packed away in a box somewhere and/or it takes a couple days for your internet to get hooked up at your new place.

Xbox Live's cloud processing capabilities

"Cloud processing" in the gaming space is a flat out joke if not also a lie. I cannot imagine a game which would require so much parallelizable (if computations are non-parallelizable then cloud computing makes computation slower) number crunching as to make offloading computation faster than local computation. This offloading is only meant to cripple games and reinforce the idea of online required play (see Sim City 5).

Ford Prefect wrote:Specifically it was said that there were would no always online components and no usage restrictions on discs, so no fee to resell or whatever.

In that case, I'll just shut up about this issue.

Havok wrote:You think holiday resorts don't have internet connections?

Y/N XBox One won't work when dog kicks out WiFi router cord? Like I can't play my game not work?

It depends on how often the Xbox One tries to check your games. If the Xbox One checks more often than once every 24 hours, that won't be a problem. You only need one check to succeed each day.
If the Xbox Ones only checks when the 24 hours is up, and that check fails, you can't play anything till you do a successful check.

Really though, a more likely and problematic scenario is your internet connection going down and your ISP dragging their feet on repairing it. If it's down for more than 24 hours, guess what, you aren't using your XBone again until it comes back.

That or the servers go down.

bilateralrope wrote:What exactly did Sony say regarding DRM ?

"PS4 won't impose any new restrictions on used games".

Essentially, it will work exactly the way it works now. Some publishers might keep using online passes, but that's all they'll be able to do unless they build their own DRM, because the console will have no drm, dial home requirement, or authentication of any kind for disc based games, only PSN titles like they do on the PS3.

DaveJB wrote:On top of that, some games can potentially use Xbox Live's cloud processing capabilities to offload certain tasks to remote servers, meaning that even a momentary loss of connection could screw up everything, but it remains to be seen how many games will actually use that (and to be honest, I doubt any will at launch).

The only "Cloud based" feature that's been announced is that the "drivatar" in Forza 5 (a feature of Forza where it learns how you play and can try and play like you as an AI, the Forza series has had it for a while) is cloud synced and used as the basis of the AI in other people's games (and theirs in your game), and you get in-game rewards for how well it's doing as an opponent.

But that doesn't require an always on connection, it could just sync whenever.

My sides transcend time and space.

bilateralrope wrote:That or the servers go down.

The "My internet might break" argument is a red herring in the argument about always on. Every single high profile always on DRM service, Steam (in its early days), Diablo 3, Sim City, Ubisoft's Uplay on PC, all of them have had outages where people were unable to play because the authentication servers were offline or overloaded.

The argument isn't whether your internet works consistently, it's whether the service will be there when you want it.

Havok wrote:You think holiday resorts don't have internet connections?

A number of them do not have it, and even those that do not make it easy to connect the internet port to the living room.

The price point is certainly a big deal in America, but obviously us oceanics are gonna get hella gouged. $550 in Aus? $600+ in NZ? Please.

Buuuut a Sony exec confirmed that the PS4 is region free so no big I guess :v

Vendetta wrote:The argument isn't whether your internet works consistently, it's whether the service will be there when you want it.

I think people are being generous and assuming that Microsoft are going to be able to keep the servers operational, since they're so critical to the console even working. Though that really would be the icing on the cake, if they launch the XBone later this year and Xbox Live immediately goes down from the data overload, rendering every XBone out there completely useless.

Instant Sunrise wrote:Or another very real scenario for not having it connected to the internet for over 24 hours. You're moving and your Xbone is packed away in a box somewhere and/or it takes a couple days for your internet to get hooked up at your new place.

Some of these downsides to "always on" are really pushing the boundaries of nitpicking. You know what sucks about not having Internet at my Sister's house while we gut it? Everything. Because when taking a break my tablet and cellphone (terrible reception) are pretty much useless. I finally asked them why they haven't called the phone guy about hooking up Internet while they continue to remodel as they do have power and spend a decent amount of time over there. "You can do that?" Seriously, you call the network guy the minute you close on a purchase/lease or you bring a book.

Many of the arguments for and against PC games on console are hilarious though. "Stop being poor and get better Internet!" "PC games can't be sold" even though many can and why the fuck wouldn't I just game on my PC if console loses one of it's major benefits over it? The "Exclusives" fanboys so desperately swoon over?

Comparing the walled garden of a console to the Steam walled garden is a bit of a false analogy anyway.

Steam has ridiculous sales to attract users because Steam has competitors. A potential walled digital distribution garden on a console will not except other consoles, which have hardware buy in. I don't have to buy another PC to buy a game from GOG or Desura or Gamersgate or Origin or whatever if I happen to have a Steam client installed.

Also, Steam is a freely accessable storefront which you can look at on a device you already own for other purposes, so the deep discount sales can attract PC owners who don't have Steam accounts to Steam. There's no need to attract a console owner to your walled garden store because they already have your console and that's the only thing they can do with it. So unless they were going to compete with retail directly (they're not. Xbox One digital releases will be the same price as physical retail, the same as new releases are on Steam. And given that they'll be blu-ray based and therefore 20+GB downloads it'll be quicker to walk to the damn shop and buy a copy)

Who is talking about Steam?

It was only recently (although more than a few years now), that the concept of downloadable retail games (at a ridiculous mark-up compared to physical copies) came to consoles. Well, ok the concept was way back on the Genesis and maybe even before that, but whatever, that sucked on a modem.

The analogy (that I never made) is off because people equate a software platform like Steam or Origin directly to a hardware platform like the Xbone or WiiU. There are multiple ways to acquire PC games. Consoles seemed to be catching up, but now we see that at least one is literally copying the Digital Distribution method and all of it's drawbacks. The difference is that, with the exception of certain publishers/games (like Skyrim/Beth or some of EA's shovelware), that service is optional on PC. I own many games on Steam. I have purchased a few on GoG. I still buy the odd retail hardcopy.

By opting into console hardware, that isn't an option, which was fine to me as a consumer because I always had the option to trade-in or borrow games. This was a god-send for games like Brink which were garbage but I got sucked into buying because "friends." With this option no longer viable and many of my friends using their Xbox's only for Netflix, there's no good reason for me to even bother with a proprietary gaming platform.

My original point, that upon re-reading I did a terrible job of explaining, is the hilarity of Xbox fanboys constantly saying shit like "haha, you don't even own your PC games, cry while I trade my used games in at Gamestop" but are now turning around and saying shit like "Yea well, PC (Read: Steam/etc) has been doing this forever, so it's no big deal." The hypocrisy is hilarious.

It's the same coping mechanism Sony whores are trotting out now that the PSN isn't free to game online. "Lol still better than the Xbawks!"

DaveJB wrote:

Vendetta wrote:The argument isn't whether your internet works consistently, it's whether the service will be there when you want it.

I think people are being generous and assuming that Microsoft are going to be able to keep the servers operational, since they're so critical to the console even working. Though that really would be the icing on the cake, if they launch the XBone later this year and Xbox Live immediately goes down from the data overload, rendering every XBone out there completely useless.

I missed this post and the edit window: On this note, MS claims they're upping the amount of XBLive servers from 15k to 300k to support all the new consoles and features.

DaveJB wrote:

Vendetta wrote:The argument isn't whether your internet works consistently, it's whether the service will be there when you want it.

I think people are being generous and assuming that Microsoft are going to be able to keep the servers operational, since they're so critical to the console even working. Though that really would be the icing on the cake, if they launch the XBone later this year and Xbox Live immediately goes down from the data overload, rendering every XBone out there completely useless.

I expect that there will be launch issues. But, once they are fixed, nobody will care about them as they were only launch issues.

Outages later on will be a different story if they come to frequently and/or MS can't blame the outage on an outside attack. Compensation that doesn't cost MS anything, like a free game, each time will do a lot to smooth over any complaints.

Ford Prefect wrote:Buuuut a Sony exec confirmed that the PS4 is region free so no big I guess :v

Apparently Amazon have confirmed that Australian's can buy a PS4 from Amazon's American store and they will ship to Aus for $15.

atg wrote:Apparently Amazon have confirmed that Australian's can buy a PS4 from Amazon's American store and they will ship to Aus for $15.

You have got to be kidding.

Does anyone have any idea why price difference is so stark? Like, I figured the One would be cheaper or else the PS4 would be sold at loss, but even including the Eye the PS4's cheaper while apparently selling at profit.

Well remember that part of the reason the PS3 was so expensive was that it was subsidising blu-ray players lol

It might be that the One has similar costs to make up elsewhere.

In the continuing saga of Microsoft incompetence, in response to a question about connectivity issues, Don Matrick stated that the platform for people with connectivity issues is the Xbox 360. Like I thought they were reigning this shit in but apparently not.

LOL what? Did he actually word it like that?