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If the Empire had been getting close, that would make Leia's bluff all the more credible.

As to the fleet pic on the previous page:

I count:

-1 large (cruiser or battleship-sized) carrier.
-1 Mon Calimari cruiser (Home One?).
-5 Nebulon B Frigates.
-7 Corellian Corvettes or similar craft.
-4 of those Hammerhead (from KotOR)-inspired ships. Don't recall the class name or type, but from the size, they look like either small frigates or large corvettes.
-2 of the Rebel transports.
-1 small freighter/gunship (The Ghost), with what looks like a pair of Y-wings attached.

Any word on weather this represents most or all of the Rebel fleet at this time in the continuity, or weather it is simply one of multiple fleets?

Pablo stated in Rebels Recon that he thinks that the Rebel Fleet at Scarif was everything that the Rebels had battle ready at the time, and that most of those ships were here. He also said that obviously there are some ships that show up at Scarif that aren't shown here, and some here that aren't at Scarif. He explains their absence from Scarif as probably being in repairs or just simply not ready for whatever reason at the time.

So it seems that this is intended to be just about the entire rebel fleet, with just a few ships missing.

It would be interesting to do ship counts from here, from Endor, and from the Battle of Jakku, for example (if available) and compare, to track the progression of the Rebel fleet's capabilities over the course of the Galactic Civil War.

The Romulan Republic wrote:It would be interesting to do ship counts from here, from Endor, and from the Battle of Jakku, for example (if available) and compare, to track the progression of the Rebel fleet's capabilities over the course of the Galactic Civil War.

I haven't read it, but I've read that in the novel "Aftermath: Empire's End", it's stated that the size of the New Republic Defense Force was "three times" the size of the Alliance forces at the time of the Battle of Endor, but that it was unclear if it pertained to the entire Defense Force or only the fleet at Jakku. I've asked for clarification in the thread here, but no reply yet.

Reyvan wrote:Pablo stated in Rebels Recon that he thinks that the Rebel Fleet at Scarif was everything that the Rebels had battle ready at the time, and that most of those ships were here. He also said that obviously there are some ships that show up at Scarif that aren't shown here, and some here that aren't at Scarif. He explains their absence from Scarif as probably being in repairs or just simply not ready for whatever reason at the time.

So it seems that this is intended to be just about the entire rebel fleet, with just a few ships missing.

That is also largely consistent with Thrawn's comments about destroying "the Rebel fleet." Scarif implies that he fails.

Mange wrote: I haven't read it, but I've read that in the novel "Aftermath: Empire's End", it's stated that the size of the New Republic Defense Force was "three times" the size of the Alliance forces at the time of the Battle of Endor, but that it was unclear if it pertained to the entire Defense Force or only the fleet at Jakku. I've asked for clarification in the thread here, but no reply yet.

I haven't read the whole book, but based upon the passage I found on Google Books, it is probably the entire fleet, but also that most of said fleet ended up at Jakku. It was a statement from Mon Mothma as she was giving a speech to authorize sending the fleet to Jakku. It was also implied to be almost the entire Imperial fleet that still followed the same leader, so it must be similarly small by this point.

If that is the case, and the main New Republic fleet really is that small, I suspect that the majority of worlds focus on having scale planetary militaries rather than throwing in with the New Republic. This implies that the galaxy becomes much more multipolar than in either of the previous eras. It also explains how the First Order is able to exist, that they are in a position in which they can funnel resources from individual worlds that are still sympathetic to the old Empire and wish for its return.

Mange wrote:

The Romulan Republic wrote:It would be interesting to do ship counts from here, from Endor, and from the Battle of Jakku, for example (if available) and compare, to track the progression of the Rebel fleet's capabilities over the course of the Galactic Civil War.

I haven't read it, but I've read that in the novel "Aftermath: Empire's End", it's stated that the size of the New Republic Defense Force was "three times" the size of the Alliance forces at the time of the Battle of Endor, but that it was unclear if it pertained to the entire Defense Force or only the fleet at Jakku. I've asked for clarification in the thread here, but no reply yet.

Yeah, but it gives us low-end numbers for the Rebel/New Republic fleet- the screenshot that was just posted here for their early war fleet, and the on-screen count from Endor times three for their end of war fleet.

I might not be remembering correctly, but I think Empires End mentions that there's still significant defenses around the New Republics most important systems, but that Jakku is their single largest fleet, and if they lose it could turn the course of the war back against the Republic.

Notably none of the three SSDs that Life Debt established the New Republic had captured were at Jakku. I'm guessing they were on defensive duties or being repaired.

Well, that makes sense.

No navy is ever going to be able to deploy its entire fleet in a single engagement, no matter how crucial, because their will be ships that are in for repairs.

I don't have a source, I'm afraid, but I seem to recall reading (somewhere on this board, I believe) that the US Navy usually has something like two ships in port/drydock for every one that's actually available.

Given that Jakku was only a year after Endor as I recall, its also possible that the SSDs were still being repaired from battle damage sustained during their capture.

Pablo stated in Rebels Recon that he thinks that the Rebel Fleet at Scarif was everything that the Rebels had battle ready at the time, and that most of those ships were here. He also said that obviously there are some ships that show up at Scarif that aren't shown here, and some here that aren't at Scarif. He explains their absence from Scarif as probably being in repairs or just simply not ready for whatever reason at the time.

So it seems that this is intended to be just about the entire rebel fleet, with just a few ships missing.

That makes little to no sense.

Scariff wasn't a coordinated Rebel assault, it was a 20 odd rebels (in every sense of the word) launching an assault and a gung ho admiral jumping in to assist them as soon as he heard about it. Raddus was in hyperspace heading to Scariff in less time than it took for the base on Yavin to advise Mon Mothma what Rogue One had done.That would mean every functioning rebel ship of all sizes had turned up at Scariff for what was essentially an emergency conference.

I've only seen Rogue One once, so I might be forgetting something, but might it be that the other cells contributed mainly things other than spacecraft (i.e. intelligence, supplies/money, infantry), and that said Admiral (a Mon Cal as I recall) had the main Rebel fleet units under his command? I mean, hasn't it been established for a long time that the Mon Cals were the main contributors to the Alliance fleet, at least in terms of capital ships?

Also, I was under the impression that once the fighting started, and the Alliance knew that the die was cast no matter what, the other forces on Yavin scrambled to assist, or at least those under Mothma's/Organa's command.

More or less correct, but for that to happen the entire Rebel fleet would have to be at Yavin for a meeting.

The order of events literally goes: Rogue One leaves Yavin For Scarrif -> Rogue One assaults Scariff -> The Base on Yavin finds out -> Raddus jumps to hyperspace with a fleet heading for Scariff -> Comm operator runs to tell Mon Mothma and General Blue Leader that both of these things have happened -> Blue leader takes his own force from Yavin in time to catch Raddus fleet -> The Rebel fleet arrives at Scariff in time to provide support for Rogue One.

For this to be almost the entire Rebel implies no part of the active fleet was doing any of the following: defending the Mon Cal ships still under conversion to warships, patrolling anywhere, acting as a base for an independent cell (al la all the ships do in Rebels). Instead every major vessel gathered at Yavin for a short notice leadership conference?

Or... hyperspace is fast?

It also may be that the Mon Cal shipyards were guarded by local Mon Cal forces that weren't officially part of the Rebellion (it makes more sense for the Mon Calimiari to be covertly supplying the Alliance to maintain plausible deniability rather than officially declaring their support at this point).

I thought that when Mon Mothra heard that Raddus was "on his way," that meant he was boarding his ship and readying it for deployment, which meant that when Mon Monthra talked to Bail Organa and Bail Organa alluded to sending Leia, Leia still had time to reach Raddus and have the Tantative dock inside Raddus' ship, before the jump to Scariff...

That was pretty much my sense of it, too.

The Romulan Republic wrote:Or... hyperspace is fast?

It also may be that the Mon Cal shipyards were guarded by local Mon Cal forces that weren't officially part of the Rebellion (it makes more sense for the Mon Calimiari to be covertly supplying the Alliance to maintain plausible deniability rather than officially declaring their support at this point).

Mon Calamari were openly supporting the Rebellion at this point, they took their city-ships and run into space with them.
Their ships were being refitted in secret Rebel shipyards, not over Mon Cala.

eMeM wrote:

The Romulan Republic wrote:Or... hyperspace is fast?

It also may be that the Mon Cal shipyards were guarded by local Mon Cal forces that weren't officially part of the Rebellion (it makes more sense for the Mon Calimiari to be covertly supplying the Alliance to maintain plausible deniability rather than officially declaring their support at this point).

Mon Calamari were openly supporting the Rebellion at this point, they took their city-ships and run into space with them.
Their ships were being refitted in secret Rebel shipyards, not over Mon Cala.

It seems like every time they have the chance to do the logical thing with the Mon Cals, they drop the ball.

Have them pay lip service to the Empire while secretly aiding the Rebellion which is at this point still too small to offer them much protection? Nope, instead they took their entire fleet into hiding, leaving their home world exposed.

Use the new continuity to have their ships that can go toe-to-toe with ISDs be proper warships? Nope, reintroduce the idiotic idea that they're converted passenger ships as quickly as possible.

Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.

Perhaps the rebels deliberately used ships that could pass for civilian transports because warships would attract too much attention. After all, I imagine it would have been a lot easier for them to hide in plain sight if unarmed (or lightly armed) Mon Cal cruisers were commonplace throughout the galaxy.

the concept of a Q-ships isn't anything new after all, so I can imagine that Mon Cal ships slowly got converted into ships that looked like civilian ships but were essentially warships.

Also "secret rebel shipyards" doesn't have to mean that existance of said shipyards was a secret just the fact that the rebels were using them, it's big galaxy after all so it's not unlikely that there's a system or 2 that's sympathetic towards the rebels and has shipyards. So the authorities in those systems will "look the other way" when rebels use those shipyards as long as the rebels do it so that they don't draw too much imperial attention.

If rebel ships can pass as ordinary civilian transports then they wouldn't even have to rely upon local authorities looking the other way. They wouldn't stand out like a full-blown star destroyer, so all they'd really need to do is remain circumspect, nondescript and avoiding getting boarded for inspection.

Galvatron wrote:If rebel ships can pass as ordinary civilian transports then they wouldn't even have to rely upon local authorities looking the other way. They wouldn't stand out like a full-blown star destroyer, so all they'd really need to do is remain circumspect, nondescript and avoiding getting boarded for inspection.

I meant "look the other way" when the rebels were installing those guns the first place, fixing battle damage or dealing with anything that would not be something that normally happens to a civilian ship, also I was referring to the Mon Cals specifically.

We know for a fact that rebels use some outright military ships (that carrier from Rebels at the very least and I think Nebulon-Bs are still warships as well) and they would need to maintain or repair those as well.

I was commenting that a "secret rebel shipyard" doesn't have to something purpose built to be a rebel shipyard just something that a)works as a shipyard b)is used by the rebels in secret.

I don't see why wouldn't Rebels have purpose built secret shipyards.

Lord Revan wrote:We know for a fact that rebels use some outright military ships (that carrier from Rebels at the very least and I think Nebulon-Bs are still warships as well) and they would need to maintain or repair those as well.

The carrier is a captured Imperial military vessel, but the Nebulon-B is a really odd design for a warship. I wouldn't be surprised if they were converted as well.

Galvatron wrote:Perhaps the rebels deliberately used ships that could pass for civilian transports because warships would attract too much attention. After all, I imagine it would have been a lot easier for them to hide in plain sight if unarmed (or lightly armed) Mon Cal cruisers were commonplace throughout the galaxy.

Its not the concept of the Rebels having ships like that that bothers me- that makes sense.

Its the notion that these would be their premier capital ships, capable of going toe-to-toe with ISDs on a more or less even footing.

I agree. However, perhaps the rebels prioritized quality over quantity and sacrificed having more ships in order to pour their resources into just a few with enough upgrades to ensure that they could hold their own against their Imperial counterparts.

This would make more sense especially if the rebels lacked the manpower necessary to crew a larger number of warships.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cv09z2o4UXM

Sam Witwer does a really good job with the vocals. The vocal fry at the end of that scream really give it a raw, maddened feel, perfect for where Maul is mentally