Homebrew tabletop game system thread the II

[Simon_Jester]

OOC:

I know. Larric can probably make a pretty good guess, too- and I think d'Avariel is misunderstanding his motives again, or possibly just assuming he doesn't have any. Either would be in keeping with the spirit of their past dealings. I am, and I think Larric partly would be, banking on that misunderstanding, since it seems so persistent.

He's intelligent enough to fake stupid honesty.

IC:

Larric nods slowly. "I can think of one person, who I might have accused of it myself but I know didn't do it-" slight pause- "he was at breakfast at the time. You've got a longer list than I do, of those who were somewhere else."

He frowns. "I'm as worried about who put the murderer up to it as who did it. Different, tougher question, but... anyone who'd have something this horrible done once would have it done twice, and I think-" eyes flick to Mother Pola- "we've a calling to stop them before that, not so?" He looks back to d'Avariel. "But working from first principles is something to start with, even if we don't finish the job there."

[Eleventh Century Remnant]

'One of your friends?' She makes the connection. 'If you're willing to vouch for him- make sure you actually can, and you're always in a position to be able to do so.

This is as close as you can get to understanding what it's like to be a woman looking for a husband,' she says to Larric, the man surrounded by three women, Mother Pola glares at her, Tamarin looks appalled.

'The contenders for power, looking for who to give power over you to, trying to sift who's strong enough to protect you without being tempted to turn that strength against you- looking for a lord to follow, looking for one of the contenders to favour; very like. So which of them do you think would make the worst man in your life?' She is being tongue in cheek mischievous here, but she's got a point.

'You need someone.' Pola says to her.

'To restrain my excesses and make an honest woman of me? Not likely.' Dame D'Avariel fires back. 'The constable's the lowest, but to be honest it's the baron's family, his ex- mistresses in particular, who I'd call desperate enough to do that, dubious enough to do it themselves, and as an alternative just wealthy enough, still, to hire someone to do it for them. Interesting people.' she smiles.



Right, something's come up- someone else short of a lift- and I need to heads off to a show earlier than I had expected. Back Sunday night. I had wanted to keep that going but..well, back ina couple of days.

[Simon_Jester]

Larric shakes his head at d'Avariel, his expression somber. "If you knew what I knew, milady... well. I think you wouldn't tell a friend to go a-courting at a time like this. Some odd things could turn up in the middle of it."

[There are a number of bits of banter that would fit in here, but the first one that flits through Larric's mind is that it's unseemly to go looking for a new husband so soon. Which, he realizes, would strike Tamarin like a dagger. That shocks him out of saying anything at all. His poker face isn't that good, definitely not good enough to keep someone from telling that he was about to say something but held his tongue. Of course, it's likely that they can't tell what he was going to say.]

"And... do you really think they'd-" he frowns and shrugs. "Hm. I don't know. I'd look for a terribly strong case against them, before I tried to pin this on them. My list of might-have-dones looks a little different than yours, I guess."

OOC:

Larric is not trying to exploit this consciously, he doesn't operate on that 'meta' a level. But it occurs to me- d'Avariel probably has a lot of flitting around to do, if my suspicions are correct. Even if they aren't, she probably does on sheer opportunism alone; this is political dynamite and she'll want to place as many charges as she can.

Larric is quite ready to spend a long time talking about who might have done it, and keep poking away with his usual natural-philosophical, open-mind, I-don't-even-believe-in-the-classical-elements-anymore methods. How ready is she to be on the other side of that conversation?

D'Avariel dances, Larric galumphs- and she may need to dance away, if she wants to get anything useful done.

[White Haven]

"Professional," Verone muses as he runs over not so much what is there as what isn't. "Very smooth, whoever did this... option one, kills a lot, and is very good at it, or option two, is a planner, a thinker. Someone who put a lot of thought into how to do something like this without leaving a trail. And--"

A sudden realization strikes the mage, at which point he begins building up a shielding spell as subtly as he can, "Someone was expecting a mage or mages to be looking into it...and knew enough to muddle the trail."

What he carefully does not say is, Oh dear, not another trapspell, please, just something ordinary like a spiked mace..

[Eleventh Century Remnant]

Ah, that was a good show- far in the middle of nowhere and we may have outnumbered the public, but wonderful setting for all that.

You know the saying about the superior pilot (surgeon, fencer, whichever) using their superior judgement to avoid situations which would challenge their superior ability? She's...not like that. She tends to dive headlong into situations which would challenge her ability, because it's fun.


'Oh, odd things turning up is the only genuinely interesting part. For instance, yourself,' she says to Tamarin, 'heavy hints have already been dropped on you, have they not? The version I heard was that your estate had already been promised away from under you, with no right other than force, and no recourse except to a lord who doesn't exist yet, or to accept the hand of one of the constable's smellier and less presentable kin he has to provide for. Or fight.

'The way they do business is the evidence I need, enough to convince me that there is a case there to find. So what is it that you think you know?' she adds to Larric.


Verone can try to build a shielding spell, but nothing happens. A moment's thought indicates that leaving behind some kind of boobytrap would be another, and possibly a much clearer, finger pointing at the assassin- from the way the ends of what little he can find fold and flow into one another, everything tidied and muted and smoothed away, the last thing they would have done is leave something open ended like a triggered spell.

He can also overhear some politics happening- the world does not stop for one person's grief, unless they are very important indeed. Plotting- one of the sherriff's and one of the bailiff's men.
'Who do we blame for this? This is, ah, this could kill two people- whoever was foul enough to do it.'
'Don't blame the maniacs. That shower who walked in yesterday? Natural- but too dangerous. Let them get sucked in.'

[Simon_Jester]

OOC:

I PMed Sorchus. Hopefully he'll show up to weigh in...

You know the saying about the superior pilot (surgeon, fencer, whichever) using their superior judgement to avoid situations which would challenge their superior ability? She's...not like that. She tends to dive headlong into situations which would challenge her ability, because it's fun.

Point.

He can also overhear some politics happening- the world does not stop for one person's grief, unless they are very important indeed. Plotting- one of the sherriff's and one of the bailiff's men.
'Who do we blame for this? This is, ah, this could kill two people- whoever was foul enough to do it.'
'Don't blame the maniacs. That shower who walked in yesterday? Natural- but too dangerous. Let them get sucked in.'

Ohshit. I think that's us. Then again, it sounds like they decided not to blame us. Then again again, "get sucked in" sounds ominous.
_________

OOC MK II:

Honestly, I am not a good enough conversational fencer for this, any more than Larric is. I'm not exactly sure what would be a sane response to the circumstances, so I'm going to try something that feels right, for the hell of it. If nothing else, to try and keep the whole conversation from turning into a Larric-d'Averiel sparring match, which is of no use to anyone, including my own OOC interest in the game.




IC:

[picks up d20 he sometimes uses to model Larric's general intelligence, when it comes to interpreting clues that are right there, rolls a 1]

It is starting to become clear to Larric that his original implied allegation to d'Avariel: "Had you gotten around to telling the Reverend Mother who you think did it?" is substantially accurate; it is important to her to point suspicion in the direction of the constable. That does not mean, to his way of thinking, that the constable didn't do it, but it's a pretty good sign that d'Avariel would like to be accusing him whether he'd done it or not. Which tells him about all he needs to know about how useful it is to keep talking to her.

The alchemist would have been happy to keep talking to d'Avariel if he had any confidence in her motives, or her willingness to stick to the matter at hand. She'd be a very good person to have around if she, you know, actually cared about the murder... but it doesn't look that way.

He doesn't say anything, for a moment. Then he looks to Tamarin. "Intriguing... this reminds me of what you said a few minutes ago. About drive, and focus, and seeing past things to a greater good." He nods his head in d'Avariel's direction. "I'm sure proving that this evil is on the constable's head, on account of it sounds like his style, would serve that sort of greater good."

Larric turns directly to the priestess. "Mother Pola, we'd be obliged if you could spare a moment of your time to talk over a few ideas with us. We're aiming to find out the truth of all this, and I think your help would be worth a lot."

[Eleventh Century Remnant]

'You never met the lad.' she points out to Larric, and adds 'This, this isn't a crime that you can take apart like a logic puzzle, like the elves in their more cold- blooded moments;' quite surprising that she's even heard of logic puzzles, really- 'it's an act, an attack, of politics.
People, even good ones, the innocent and the promising, are the drops of blood the body politic sheds- except that if it is a body it's one constantly at war with itself; no human could be as ill as that and live.
You know that, though.' she adds to Tamarin. 'However much you want the world to stop to give you time to mourn, to understand, to recover, it doesn't. It won't. For none of us- it will not, it never does. Stanch the wound as best you may; I'll worry about the parry and riposte.'


She wanders off to bother someone else, and Pola shakes her head as she goes away. 'She probably needs to be saved, if I could only decipher what from...she's quite badly broken on the inside, you know. I'll help you however I can with this terrible crime.'

[Feralgnoll]

OOC Back!

IC: Rohal does not like the site of a child dead child. His face would have had an obvious grimace and snarl. But he would have calmed down and began to try to identify all scents that happened around the same time as the dead child.

[Simon_Jester]

IC:

Larric attempts to herd the widow and the Cheletian (Cheletist? Cheletite? I'll be calling her a priestess from now until I get a specific word for that, it sounds awkward to me however I say it) somewhere they can't be overheard too casually, at least not by anyone important or obviously lingering around listening for rumors.

If it's impossible to even try and get any meaningful distance away from important and/or rumor-trawling listeners within a few minutes' walk, he may have to consider a plan B. The castle is crowded, the hall and temple complex equally so if not more so, obviously.

While doing so (assuming I don't need that plan B, or possibly while trying to think of it) he gives a small, embarrassed smile to the priestess. "I begin to think she's her church's idea of a... temple dancer, and if that's so then I'm sure you're right and I do hope a way can be found. But right this moment, I don't think we want her in the middle of an..." he searches for a word "investigation we're in. I may owe her an apology later, but I worry she'd try to steer it off the road into whatever she wanted trampled. She's too likely to have an angle, someone she wants blamed for this whether they did it or not. Though I might be wrong, I've only met her the once before, has she been around these parts long?"

OOC:

(This is opening conversation, things that can be said regardless of circumstances and are relatively safe, I'm hoping to get a DM ruling on trying to get away from at least the worst possible eavesdroppers before Larric carries on)

[Eleventh Century Remnant]

Sniffing around, Rohal gets largely the same result- a highly suspicious amount of too little to find. There are smells- he was a ten year old boy with a pet dog, after all- a few other youths and adults, parents, friends, guards, servants; but of an intruder, a killer, little or nothing.

It's just possible to make out that there was some thaumaturgy involved; looped, almost unreachable threads and fragments of a mask, an inward directed use of sense, and a faint whisper that lends credence to the summoning theory.

Oh, Dirt's plant is quite interesting- smarter than she looks, smells more like an animal than a plant. No eyes as such, she senses by heat and smell, and is looking at Rohal, canting her head as if to say, what are you? Spoiler

I have a long term plan for when she gets too big to carry; it involves some help from Njal.

Finding somewhere it's impossible to overhear is more a matter of place than distance; it isn't the temple complex for nothing, and there are a lot of holes and corners, cupboards and side rooms and store rooms- it's harder to be sure that there isn't, for instance, someone on the other side of the wall, or somebody passing by.

Mother Pola has a spare room- a set of quarters for an assistant priestess currently unoccupied. 'Maternity leave.' The people she was putting up in it moved out for one of the new wood houses a week ago, and it should be quiet enough.

'I think she may actually have been one, or worse,' Pola says of dame D'Avariel, 'before she came to her faith. However she came to be as she is, and I doubt there's much joy or human kindness in her tale, I believe you may be right- the situation for her, and her goddess and most of her followers, comes before the people who are in it. She's been here for a week or so, a band of five of them out of the north, come to try to set things to rights.'

It's- there's no way she would say this in so many words, but the short version is that there are some gods who, because of what they do, are inherently gods of the people, of the mass; ordinary folk matter to them. Others are gods of the elite, of leaders and heroes and specialists, special people matter more to them than ordinary people. Chelet is much more a goddess of the people, Krylanya a goddess of the elite.
Ikhran is more towards the middle, what with the need for patrons and paymasters, but if it had to be binary, one side or the other, he'd come down as a god of the common man.

[Simon_Jester]

Larric wouldn't say it in those words, either, but he's an intuitionist and not afraid to think outside of some very thick-walled boxes; he'd surely understand if it were put to him, and probably gets the drift regardless.

The spare room is good enough- he can't be sure there isn't someone on the other side of the wall, but he'll live with the risk.

"It seems to me... how do I say this..." he scratches his chin. "All right. It's all political, we know that for sure. There are people I'd be startled to see had any hand in this, wouldn't dream of thinking they'd care enough for the politics to do something... vile. Either they'd never do such a thing, or they wouldn't care enough to do it here. I could make a list of people I'd wager it isn't, look at it like that. And the Krylanyans, it's too soon to accuse anyone, but I'm not entirely sure they're on my list of definitely not a part of this. It's not a suspicion, not a pointed finger, there's no proof for that and I don't really expect any. But I don't think they should be trusted to know everything the people on the trail of this know. They're too likely to have angle, to have helped arrange it all, or to have at least had some idea something like this would happen... How often does Dame D'Avariel do something of a morning like she did today? Show off at arms? Not yesterday, I think, but what about before that? She's been here what, ten, fifteen, twenty days? Has she done it before? Because I remember the way she said "couldn't possibly be..." I hope I'm just going mad with suspicion here, I'd feel better about that."

[Kaelan]

OOC

I have a long term plan for when she gets too big to carry; it involves some help from Njal.

I'm thinking along the lines of a levitating plant pot...

IC
Well, Dirt’s pretty much finished with his investigations, and will hang about whilst Rohal & Verone conclude their own checks. As a relative new comer he’s not entirely sure about the human politics of the area, other than they appear to be as mad as the elves. Other than that it’s just keep fifi away from the meat chunks in case she grabs a sly bite and causes some more distress, and wait for the party to get back together to compare notes.

OOC 2
Anybody else wish we’d headed out the night before rather than staying in the castle? This reminds me of ‘Heroquest’ where the stay in town was more dangerous than the actual adventure.

[Eleventh Century Remnant]

'I try not to be a cynic or an ugly soul, but politics always brings me out in dark thoughts- it so very, very rarely comes to human good. I try to prevent it wherever I can, and because of that I know it as a doctor knows sickness.

What I usually think is that it's more or less all vile, but I suppose that in some parts it is much worse than in others...and if I had to guess, I would say that you are looking for someone far more than usually rotten of course, but also someone apart, someone the rest of us don't have enough to do with to notice.

The constable isn't that sort of man. No-one thinks highly of him at the moment, but his faults are the opposite of this, he's not bad because he's bold- if he was he wouldn't be so bad; he's a bad man because he's not bold at all, he's- well, you may say he's dishonoured himself but I would say he's lost his self respect. He did a rotten thing, played the coward, and has enough honour left to blame himself for it. They're just blaming him because the accusation will stick, but he couldn't do this, and doesn't have anyone loyal and capable enough who would and could.

A ranger, though, someone far from the eyes of the rest of the world who lives by stealth and has more than a little to do with the wild- I don't believe it is him, it would be utterly unlike him, but Sir Detrick is another one the mud could be made to stick to, could be wrongfully accused and have some believe it. He wouldn't, I'd stake my own life and honour on it, but he and his followers would be physically capable of it.

Apart from that...oh, dear. Someone who has a role, a place that acts as a mask, a public face that hides the real person and how rotten they are.'

[Panzersharkcat]

(OOC: Aye. The poor petunia.)

[Simon_Jester]

OOC:

OOC 2
Anybody else wish we’d headed out the night before rather than staying in the castle? This reminds me of ‘Heroquest’ where the stay in town was more dangerous than the actual adventure.

YES.

...

Er, we have a small problem.

Who was that spoken to, and by whom? It sounds like it could be to me, from Tamarin or Pola, depending, although I'd guess Tamarin before Pola. Or it could be someone (Sir Grass-stain?) talking to Verone and Rohal and Dirt.

Or is it Dame Andrea, talking to Sir Alfred?

[Eleventh Century Remnant]

Right, I'll tweak that a bit. Mostly Pola to Larric but the voice didn't come out right.

'We tend to think of politics, my fellow Cheletians and I, as at best a necessary evil, at worst a thing vile in itself. I think you're looking for people who care too much about the politics rather than not enough.' Pola says,

then Tamarin points out that the Constable is in poor standing- 'His reputation is gutter low, so it makes sense for them to accuse him- but that doesn't mean he actually did it. Makes it less likely, in fact; his flaws are the flaws of a weak man, who has let himself down, and he knows it- so do most, especially those who did the same, fled, and blame him for not leading them to be better than they were.

He couldn't do this, though. Detrick- a leader of rangers, people far from the eyes of the rest of the world who live by stealth and has more than a little to do with the wild; he could, but he wouldn't- people are a little afraid of him, ready to believe he could, but no. It's not in his nature.'

Pola thinks about it for a second and adds 'If I had to guess, I would say that you are looking for someone far more than usually rotten of course, but also someone apart, someone the rest of us don't have enough to do with to notice. Possibly someone who has a role, a place that acts as a mask, a public face that hides the real person and how rotten they are.'



Make more sense now?

[Simon_Jester]

OOC:

Much more. I'm going to assume that "oh, dear" remained in there; it fit.

IC:

"Exactly. 'Oh, dear.' That's what I'm afraid of, and if we keep chasing the political angle, we're looking for a hole: 'name the man we don't know the name of.'" The alchemist sighs. "We might be deadlocked there, at least for now. Maybe it'd be better to see if there are clues at the... scene of the crime, though I'm not looking forward to that."

[Panzersharkcat]

Though he's been quietly standing there listening, he's brooding. He looks rather displeased that somebody killed a child, wrinkling his nose at the sight.

[Kaelan]

On the subject of clues, when dirt gets a chance he will head into the courtyard below the window to see what his keen eyes can pick up, threads of clothing or hair caught on the plant life working its way up to the window would be the starting point.

[Eleventh Century Remnant]

Alfred really doesn't need to convince anyone of that fact.
There is an interesting dividing line, though, between those who care about the fact that a child is dead and those who care about the fact that somebody's political ambitions have been disrupted. So far, everyone with an opinion thinks the actual killer is to be found on the second side of the line.

Heading for the scene of the crime seems a sensible thing to do- although between the members of the party leaving and the members of the party trying to get in, in addition to the number of people simply trying to find out what happened, get to see, shouting rumours, and generally in the midst of chaos, the easiest thing to do might be for you all to meet somewhere slightly out of the mess, and pool information and theories.

Dirt can push his way through to get to where he wants and look up, and- sorry to do this again, but I'm not actually winging it; I have settled who and how it was done and what evidence it would leave, and there really isn't very much to be found. No threads or hairs- there are faint marks where a couple might have been, but been spotted and tidied up by the killer, who evidently had fairly sharp eyes themself. Best guess of height and weight, upper half of human- doesn't narrow it down much in a castle full of representatives of the warrior class really. Not short or light, or overweight, not massively tall either.

In fact, I'm going to assume that general plan- get together in peace- happens. All together again, and for the sake of argument I'm going to assume that none of you lie to each other, either. What's the line of thought and action from there?

[Kaelan]

OOC
I think a quote from aliens comes to mind...

IC
Dirt will pass on everything he has found to date, along with "grassman's" comments.

[Simon_Jester]

OOC:

I assume Larric has Tamarin and Mother Pola in tow?

IC:

Larric fills everyone in on Tamarin's suggestion that it could have been a summoned entity (which might explain the lack of physical evidence, depending on details he doesn't know). If the place is relatively quiet, he'll make a minor note of his own concern that the Krylanyans may be involved.

Then he sighs. "Verone, you said you found hints, but no more? Working together might show us some traces, something that wouldn't be found by working apart. Slim odds, but we've not much to lose by trying. Mother Pola, could you join us in that?"

If that doesn't work, he's open to ideas.

[Kaelan]

If it's a summoned daemon why climb all the way to the window to do it?

[Simon_Jester]

OOC:

I don't know. Then again, who's to say that the humanoid figure that left those footprints wasn't whatever was summoned?

(I'm not actually seriously pushing this idea, but I figure it's a side-possibility we might want to bear in mind in case some other secondary evidence suggests it)

[Eleventh Century Remnant]

This is progress; you have an oddity that defies easy explanation, so once you eliminate the obvious you may be part way to a solution. Three thoughts I would like your characters to have;

First- is this something you can safely take an interest in? Verone's a member of the guild, has some enforcement rights over magic and works thereof- and knows full well that no one of them has the talent to do this; a couple of them between them might, but the closest to being individually able to do something like this is actually himself.

Alfred has any knight's duties and privileges, but they don't extend to arresting and trying somebody of rank. Ridebert is a sworn officer of the law, but he's under a cloud anyway, for the last heinous outrage. Andrea's in the same state.

Second- when you do figure out who it is, what are you going to do about it? What are they going to do about it? You could be sticking your head into the lion's mouth.

Third- there's no shortage of trouble. Is this really the thing you're best positioned and most able to deal with?


Tamarin, Pola, Andrea and Ridebert- who has been talking to the Treasurer's family- are all with you, as well as several of Tamarin's relatively small retinue.

Andrea's comment is that 'It's two birds with one stone. I know what that witch in the steel bikini [yes, I know it's an anachronism] wants everyone to think- and she's damned persuasive- I'm...not convinced it was just opportunism.' She adds that last bit very quietly. 'The only reason to kill someone like that- gods forgive me for being able to think like this- is for the outrage, to kill two people- the actual victim and the one the real murderer makes sure gets blamed for it. Don't tell me that someone who could sneak in, sneak out, hide their traces like that couldn't think that through.'