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Eternal_Freedom wrote:Bah humbug. Oh well. I'm sure the game will find some inventive way of kicking you in the balls Simon

You can kick Simon in the balls by using Kicker-A

Kicker-B is necessary to hurl two vehicles to the Moon (i.e the shuttle and the lander), but Kicker-A will suffice for one ship.

True- but unless he's planning a joint launch for his moon landings, he'll have to develop Kicker-B anyway, in which case taking Kicker-A for the sake of doing lunar pass on a boosted-Titan tacks another 35-40 MB of kicker research costs to his program. And even assuming the massive infusion of funds from his minishuttle launch, his program is still more strapped for cash than mine.

EDIT: Either way, the main prerequisite for the lunar pass at this point is the kicker. Either of us can develop either kicker in roughly the same amount of time (about four or five seasons of all-out research ought to do it, statistically speaking). Developing Kicker-B is necessary for a 'historical' single-rocket launch, either way.

This is true. I will begin Kicker-B when I have the funds available.

As for the name, I am notcalling it Enterprise. I have a pet hate for that name, for utterly irrational reasons. No, I'm thinking more along the lines of Challenger.

I will see tomorrow if it's possible to do a lunar orbit rendezvous mission with just kicker-A and boosted Titan ; It's definitely not possible to do an earth-orbit rendezvous with XMS-2 and boosted titan.

If that is possible....well, it might throw us a bloody big bone.

PeZook wrote:I will see tomorrow if it's possible to do a lunar orbit rendezvous mission with just kicker-A and boosted Titan ; It's definitely not possible to do an earth-orbit rendezvous with XMS-2 and boosted titan.

It is only possible with the Cricket LM instead of Eagle.

Boosted Titan (Titan III, I would guess) capacity: 1200 (Titan) + 800 (Booster) = 2000 total

LOR Payloads

First rocket: LM + DM + Kicker
Second rocket: Capsule + Kicker

So with Eagle and Kicker-A...

Eagle (1500) + DM (300) + Kicker-A (300) = 2100 - no go on the Titan III. Needs Saturn V.

Cricket (1100) + DM (300) + Kicker-A (300) = 1700 - can be launched on Titan III.

XMS-2 (1400) + Kicker-A (300) can be launched on a Titan III for LOR.


Sincerely,

Unnamed MASA Engineer

Yeah, I just experimentally confirmed this. So if you want to use Titan as the launcher, you must commit to Cricket, and thus accept lower scientific payloads and more importantly higher development cost (since a single-person lander is vastly more difficult to fly safely due to pilot workload)

The good thing about this approach is, of course, that you can use Kicker-A exclusively, which is cheaper and faster to research than Kicker-B.

There are bad things, too: first,a joint mission has double amount of some important stages, like launch, orbital insertion, trans-lunar injection, lunar orbital burn etc - if one of these fails, the mission is scrubbed.

Second, it eats up two launch pads

Third, you need Cricket, which pretty much eats up savings from using Kicker-A.

On the other hand, for a mission with Eagle, you WILL need the Saturn V, so...

The decision is as always yours, herr von Braun. But chose well

Can we not call it Challenger, that would just seem tacky.

PeZook wrote:Yeah, I just experimentally confirmed this. So if you want to use Titan as the launcher, you must commit to Cricket, and thus accept lower scientific payloads and more importantly higher development cost (since a single-person lander is vastly more difficult to fly safely due to pilot workload)

The good thing about this approach is, of course, that you can use Kicker-A exclusively, which is cheaper and faster to research than Kicker-B.

It's cheaper to research, but not faster- you still need to do pretty much the same number of teams' worth of research, and the main limiting factor either way is time, not cost. Kickers just aren't that expensive compared to other elements of the program.

Looking at cost of Cricket, I think it would more than eat up any savings from using Kicker-A. To develop Cricket you need to pay for something like 20-25 teams of research at 4 MB per team, as opposed to 2 MB per team for Eagle. So roughly, ignoring the cost of starting programs, the money spent on research teams for Cricket is greater than the money saved by spending 1 MB per team to develop Kicker-A instead of 2 MB per team to develop Kicker-B.

Agree with Fax. Challenger hits a bit too close to home, and I share the same hatred of Enterprise. There are some other good old sailing ship names though:

Ranger
Constellation
Adventure
Flying Cloud
Lightning
Intrepid
Independence
Ticonderoga
Sea Witch (Space Witch?)

Plan looks good Director, let's do it.

Kicker-A is faster in the sense that you can expect to pretty much always be able to pay for five teams per season, so those cheapo systems tend to get researched sooner than huge and complicated projects like minishuttles.

Simon_Jester wrote:

PeZook wrote:Yeah, I just experimentally confirmed this. So if you want to use Titan as the launcher, you must commit to Cricket, and thus accept lower scientific payloads and more importantly higher development cost (since a single-person lander is vastly more difficult to fly safely due to pilot workload)

The good thing about this approach is, of course, that you can use Kicker-A exclusively, which is cheaper and faster to research than Kicker-B.

It's cheaper to research, but not faster- you still need to do pretty much the same number of teams' worth of research, and the main limiting factor either way is time, not cost. Kickers just aren't that expensive compared to other elements of the program.

Looking at cost of Cricket, I think it would more than eat up any savings from using Kicker-A. To develop Cricket you need to pay for something like 20-25 teams of research at 4 MB per team, as opposed to 2 MB per team for Eagle. So roughly, ignoring the cost of starting programs, the money spent on research teams for Cricket is greater than the money saved by spending 1 MB per team to develop Kicker-A instead of 2 MB per team to develop Kicker-B.

Yes, but the other major consideration is that it would also save on the development costs of the Saturn V - another 150-180 MB that can be saved. That's the real argument for Cricket here, I think.

Okay,since nobody managed to solve the conundrum I have put forth, the competition is closed.

If you want an answer, consider this question: who was the real life Pyotr Klimuk, and what did he do?

I think we have little choicebut to go with the Saturn-V and Kicker-B. While more expensive, it gives us a lot fewer mission stages, so less chance of failure. Plus, with the two planned shuttles I could make two landings in a single season.

EDIT: Finally, I think I have found my preferred name for the shuttle: Odyssey.

PeZook wrote:Okay,since nobody managed to solve the conundrum I have put forth, the competition is closed.

If you want an answer, consider this question: who was the real life Pyotr Klimuk, and what did he do?

Aha! I think I see it now - was it that Klimuk did in fact fly with the only Pole ever to go into space, Mirosław Hermaszewski, hence the "Not quite" when Simon posted Hermaszewski's picture?

Scottish Ninja wrote: Aha! I think I see it now - was it that Klimuk did in fact fly with the only Pole ever to go into space, Mirosław Hermaszewski, hence the "Not quite" when Simon posted Hermaszewski's picture?

Yes! Pyotr Klimuk, historically, flew as mission commander of Soyuz 30, which carried the only Pollackistani to go into space so far.

In our game, he flew as mission commander of Voskhod XII, which carried the only Pollackistani to go into space so far.

And it was complete coincidence: they just HAPPENED to be a compatible crew, and chosen for the flight

Dammit I was so close!

Oh, PeZook? When you get round to the next This Is Your Turn post, could you make sure to include my lunar recon percentage? It's going to affect my calculations for which of those probe flights to scrub in Spring '69.

Also, how about seeing the available planetary flyby windows next season? I think you've been forgetting to do those, and they still matter to me.

Oh. Sorries, I will make sure to include the information.

Well, we haven't normally needed the lunar recon percentage, but it matters to me because I am attempting lunar landings.

[buffs fingernails]

OK, OK. Landerbots. Still!

As the glouriously successful long-duration spaceflight of Voskhod 3 is publicized across the world, so that the proletarian masses can be in awe of socialist technological progress, four tiny passengers of the capsule are overlooked.

Sasha, the small research mouse, was supposed to deliver information on behavior of animals in low gravity. Several experiments would analyze her spacial awareness and the effectiveness of several common drugs, like aspirin, on her body while in low gravity, so that future spaceflight may be better planned and safer for brave comrade cosmonauts.

However, a most surprising and completely unforeseen turn of events occured in low earth orbit, and thus Sasha became the first Earth creature to give birth in space.

Her litter of three mice adapted to microgravity swiftly, and survived the capsule's landing with no injuries. They currently reside in animal facilities at the Baikonurek Cosmodrome - the same facility where the brave comrade muttniks were trained and prepared for their test flights that were supposed to ready capsules for human spaceflight.


Comrade Rodent Sasha and her brave little myishanauts

Awww.

ZENOBIAN ZENOBSKI


The Premier with chicken.

PREMIER SHROOMANSKI, friend of all peoples, little children and small animals has announced that he will be taking Comrades Sasha and her little myishanauts under his care. The Premier is an avid animal lover and has also taken care of the space program's many dogskis after their patriotic duties to the Motherland ended and when they returned to civilian life. The Premier is known to bring his pets to visit children in the schools of Moosecow and other Zenobian cities.

The departed Murcan leader, President Dave F. Teddy, was also known for his love of animals and also took care of the space ape astronaut Chim Chim after his service in MASA. During diplomatic visits in the Kreamlean and the White Dwelling when the Premier met the President, they also brought with them their pets and the little space animals also became pioneers in the Quest for Peace between two superpowers.

Aside from adopting creatures from the space program, Premier Shroomanski has also taken care of many other patriotic hero-animals from other Zenobian government services - such as retiree cows from the agricultural bureaus, mascot bears of the Red Army, and a manta ray from the Black Sea Fleet. The Kreamlean has made a publicly open miniature zoo 'animal wing' in its halls to accommodate the Premier's new friends, which provides young proletarian Zenobians with an opportunity to learn about the patriotisms of animal husbandry.

Isn't that a bit of a bad idea, as the dogs might kill the mice, as dogs are known to do to small rodents?

Either that or its just a fluff piece and he just twists the necks of the things after the cameras are done taking the pictures.

Or he can always keep the rats in a terrarium.