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CaptainChewbacca wrote: Quick question; When the Nether-Force Team (hope the name sticks) transferred through earth, they didn't get sick. When they re-routed Dawkins that was, he almost immediately started falling apart because he was separated from hell's energies. Why didn't that happen in this case?

I think it was because he was in bad physical condition - they'd just pulled him out of his torture site, and hadn't fully regenerated.

Oh, man, the baldricks are finally wising up, though I'm left wondering when they're going to realize that attacking the humans is just going to make them more violent. Its like killing Jack Bauer; everytime you succeed, he just gets angrier at you.

Whatever happen to the idea of contacting specific demons via the gear? I had thought that was in the cards to start calling up demons to taunt/inform/hit them with propaganda.

CaptainChewbacca wrote:Great stuff, it really looks like the battle with hell is going to be over sooner than we thought. Then, of course, comes the winning of the peace.

Quick question; When the Nether-Force Team (hope the name sticks) transferred through earth, they didn't get sick. When they re-routed Dawkins that was, he almost immediately started falling apart because he was separated from hell's energies. Why didn't that happen in this case?

Yeah, it's basically a pretty slow process otherwise. Hours before you start to get fatigued, maybe a day or so before it actually kills you if you're in good health, and possibly longer if a rather excellent specimen of the undead.

Mr Bean wrote:Whatever happen to the idea of contacting specific demons via the gear? I had thought that was in the cards to start calling up demons to taunt/inform/hit them with propaganda.

Keep in mind, we havn't been at this very long, and 95% of our intel on Hell's leadership comes from 3 sources.. I imagine as soon as someone hears about DETH, they'll make a contact. I think Dagon is going to be sad to learn he's not our pic for the new leader of Dis.

Oh, crap, and Whitehall has such attractive architecture. I hope this is one portal we can forestall, or we're going to lose the MoD and PINDAR.
If you do destroy the centre of London I'm going to be loading up WE.177s on the Vulcans, Buccaneers and Tornados.

Good chapter.

Any chance the London portal hits on November 5th? That'd be nice poetic justice, doncha think?

I hadn't realized the dead could be among the living for so long, and now we will surely be able to solve "unsolved" mysteries and missing persons cases. I wonder if you can count on the dead to tell the truth, or even use a lie-detector on them.

The Duchess of Zeon wrote:

CaptainChewbacca wrote:Great stuff, it really looks like the battle with hell is going to be over sooner than we thought. Then, of course, comes the winning of the peace.

Quick question; When the Nether-Force Team (hope the name sticks) transferred through earth, they didn't get sick. When they re-routed Dawkins that was, he almost immediately started falling apart because he was separated from hell's energies. Why didn't that happen in this case?

Yeah, it's basically a pretty slow process otherwise. Hours before you start to get fatigued, maybe a day or so before it actually kills you if you're in good health, and possibly longer if a rather excellent specimen of the undead.

Recall that Dawkins was pulled from the burning desert, without a chance to heal up like the others. So he was pretty much near death anyway, thus accounting for his rapid decline when pulled to Earth. Everyone else we've seen so far has been in tip-top shape, with their wounds fully healed. It's probably somewhat analogous to running through a blizzard with shorts on: you can do it for a short while without any lasting harm, but you'd best not stop to build a snowman.

CaptainChewbacca wrote:Quick question; When the Nether-Force Team (hope the name sticks) transferred through earth, they didn't get sick. When they re-routed Dawkins that was, he almost immediately started falling apart because he was separated from hell's energies. Why didn't that happen in this case?

It's happening but the leakage of energy takes time. The dead can stay on our earth for a few minutes (they did that when they did the previous transit from the Sixth Circle to Hell-Alpha via the transit facility), enough for a quick visit to few relatives who'd come to the facility. They can't stay long though; for a fit but dead human, no more than about 30 minutes to an hour at most, by the end of which they will be pretty sick. Dawkins got sick very fast because he was in bad physical condition to start with.

I must admit, the first murder trial where the prosecution presents evidence from the deceased victim will be fun. Interesting question - what will happen to the murder rate when would-be killers know' that their victim is likely to testify against them. There's more moral dilemma's coming up than we can shake sticks at.

I imagine murder would be limited to crimes of passion, though it depends on legal rights and recourse of the deceased. Will they still give a death penalty for murder? A double-death penalty, where you're killed in the afterlife?

Well, on of the major problems with long term imprisonment, feeding them, proper housing, medical and stuff like that, wouldn't apply to the dead. You could keep people imprisoned forever by putting them in metal cages and welding the door shut. Stack them up like those factory farm chickens so they can chatter with each other to pass the eternity. No need to worry about perma-killing the wrong person.

Edit: It now occurs to me that perma-death might be preferable to this.

The bit with Memnon was nice. I noticed that Stuart explained Belial's ability to make superior-quality metal without having to resort to giving him air filtration technology or anything silly like that.

Darmalus wrote:Well, on of the major problems with long term imprisonment, feeding them, proper housing, medical and stuff like that, wouldn't apply to the dead. You could keep people imprisoned forever by putting them in metal cages and welding the door shut. Stack them up like those factory farm chickens so they can chatter with each other to pass the eternity. No need to worry about perma-killing the wrong person.

Edit: It now occurs to me that perma-death might be preferable to this.

Especially if one is on one of the lower levels of cages

How can they shit and piss if they don't eat, drink, or ingest any form of matter at all? Quickly, we must consult Dr. Kuroneko to resolve this great mystery!

I'm wondering what the reaction to DETH will be on the side of human leadership. On one hand, they know it's probably a sham, since there's been a predecessor to Free Hell for thousands of years. But on the other hand, there is the chance to get all or at least almost all the prisoners released from torment, to end the fighting, and to get a friendly government set up in Hell relatively soon, allowing the human forces and friendly Baldrick forces to focus on crushing Yahweh and the Angels of Heaven.

Plus, even if Aginor is being cultivated as the puppet ruler of Hell, perhaps you could work out a power-sharing agreement between him and Dagon. You could play them off against each other so no Baldrick ever gets singular control of the Baldrick population again and starts thinking about how nice it would be to drive out the humans in the future.

Maybe we'll break down the demon-inhabited sections of hell into separate states, ala post-WWII germany, with the main allies each getting administrative authority. Abigor is probably America's go-to-guy, but the UK or Russia might decide they want to deal with Dagon instead.

Question, would murder still be called murder? Because people in Hell are for all intents and purposes alive, they arent dead. They are dead relative to our old understanding of life and death, but not anymore. Wouldn't you just be charged with assault or something? (especially since the person comes back unharmed) but with something extra since they are now confined (for the time at least) to Hell. As in, you can only be charged for murder if you killed a person who had been rematerialized in Hell, since we dont know if there is a Hell/Heave afterlife or if Satan and Yahweh were just talking out of their asses.

So, I think people are going to have to get a new meaning for "death" as now death only really happens after your first "minor" rematerialization.

I doubt Euryale will be able to carry through with her plan to bomb parliament, considering that Belial's fortress is apparently about to get pounded into dust by a flight of B-1's...

CaptainChewbacca wrote:I imagine murder would be limited to crimes of passion

Or you'd have to do it in such a way that the victim couldn't identify you. Shoot them from a distance, say, or poison them, or arrange an "accident", or just wear a mask.

Of course, a lot of the motives for murder become problematic if the victim is still alive afterward.

CaptainChewbacca wrote:Maybe we'll break down the demon-inhabited sections of hell into separate states, ala post-WWII germany, with the main allies each getting administrative authority. Abigor is probably America's go-to-guy, but the UK or Russia might decide they want to deal with Dagon instead.

If they figure out he lied to them about Hell's underground railroad, they won't be happy no matter which country they're from.

Junghalli wrote:

CaptainChewbacca wrote:I imagine murder would be limited to crimes of passion

Or you'd have to do it in such a way that the victim couldn't identify you. Shoot them from a distance, say, or poison them, or arrange an "accident", or just wear a mask.

Of course, a lot of the motives for murder become problematic if the victim is still alive afterward.

Unfortunately, I suspect that, in some crimes, it might actually increase the chances that someone is going to wind up killed in the commission of some crimes. Say there was a person who decided to knock off a convenience store. Instead of just menacing the wage slave behind the counter with a ski-mask on, the robber now just shoots him. After all, Hell is a big place. Instead of the police talking to the living witness minutes or hours after the robbery, it'll now take weeks or months for them to track down the undead witness and get their statement . . . giving the enterprising and especially ruthless criminal more time for the trail leading to him to grow cold.

JN1 wrote:Oh, crap, and Whitehall has such attractive architecture. I hope this is one portal we can forestall, or we're going to lose the MoD and PINDAR.
If you do destroy the centre of London I'm going to be loading up WE.177s on the Vulcans, Buccaneers and Tornados.

Good chapter.

If Tartarus is ready to go now, it will be a race against time to get the bombers there before the hellgate can be opened. If they're not ready to go now, they're nuke-bait.

I noticed a minor typo...

I you do not know, I will tell you.

Shouldn't that be "If you do not..."?

Ed.

Junghalli wrote:

CaptainChewbacca wrote:I imagine murder would be limited to crimes of passion

Or you'd have to do it in such a way that the victim couldn't identify you. Shoot them from a distance, say, or poison them, or arrange an "accident", or just wear a mask.

Of course, a lot of the motives for murder become problematic if the victim is still alive afterward.

This was my main point. Murder no longer results in a transfer of asset ownership, or in legal authority. At best you've forced someone to move, but in an information age like ours, Donald Trump can just as easily run his empire from Tartarus as from Manhattan.

Murder would really only be desirable/useful for gang members defending 'territory'. You can't watch your corner if you can't set foot on earth.

NecronLord wrote:Demons for the Ethical Treatment of Humans... Ouch. They need a more plausible name.

Not to mention something that isn't blatantly faked. Telling that their documents aren't as old as they say they are will be easy for our people.

GrandMasterTerwynn wrote:After all, Hell is a big place. Instead of the police talking to the living witness minutes or hours after the robbery, it'll now take weeks or months for them to track down the undead witness and get their statement . . . giving the enterprising and especially ruthless criminal more time for the trail leading to him to grow cold.

Except that after a while, that wouldnt make any sense at all. The person will just show up in Hell, walk right over to their nearest police station, and say "I was Earth Killed, on so and so by this man."