More Trektardism

[Ryan Thunder]

The weapon mentioned wass used in a Star Trek TNG episode where they were hunting the DNA to geet a message from the progenitors. A Klingon captain used some sort of plasma weapon to wipe out all life on said planet so the Klingons held that strand of DNA.

They were convinced the Klingonsd could use it to take Armageddon from the Imperials....

While it obviously wouldn't affect anything armoured, it'd kill the infantry, right?

[Darth Wong]

The weapon mentioned wass used in a Star Trek TNG episode where they were hunting the DNA to geet a message from the progenitors. A Klingon captain used some sort of plasma weapon to wipe out all life on said planet so the Klingons held that strand of DNA.

They were convinced the Klingonsd could use it to take Armageddon from the Imperials....

While it obviously wouldn't affect anything armoured, it'd kill the infantry, right?

I don't think these people ever seriously consider the concept of strategy. The use of biological weapons would invite rapid escalation. Rapid escalation against an enemy which has the power and will to conduct overwhelming lightning campaigns of planetary depopulation is perhaps the most idiotic strategy imaginable.

When would they use such a strategy? Against Imperial worlds, which are spread across an entire galaxy and are so dispersed that it would take Federation ships years to reach the next one? Against Alpha Quadrant worlds which have capitulated to Imperial control? And how would they propose to control the inevitable escalated counter-strike?

These are children, thinking of military strategy in very child-like terms.

[Ryan Thunder]

The weapon mentioned wass used in a Star Trek TNG episode where they were hunting the DNA to geet a message from the progenitors. A Klingon captain used some sort of plasma weapon to wipe out all life on said planet so the Klingons held that strand of DNA.

They were convinced the Klingonsd could use it to take Armageddon from the Imperials....

While it obviously wouldn't affect anything armoured, it'd kill the infantry, right?

I don't think these people ever seriously consider the concept of strategy. The use of biological weapons would invite rapid escalation. Rapid escalation against an enemy which has the power and will to conduct overwhelming lightning campaigns of planetary depopulation is perhaps the most idiotic strategy imaginable.

When would they use such a strategy? Against Imperial worlds, which are spread across an entire galaxy and are so dispersed that it would take Federation ships years to reach the next one? Against Alpha Quadrant worlds which have capitulated to Imperial control? And how would they propose to control the inevitable escalated counter-strike?

These are children, thinking of military strategy in very child-like terms.

Hey, I never said it was a good idea. I was just wondering about what it was capable of.

[Peptuck]

The weapon mentioned wass used in a Star Trek TNG episode where they were hunting the DNA to geet a message from the progenitors. A Klingon captain used some sort of plasma weapon to wipe out all life on said planet so the Klingons held that strand of DNA.

They were convinced the Klingonsd could use it to take Armageddon from the Imperials....

While it obviously wouldn't affect anything armoured, it'd kill the infantry, right?

I don't think these people ever seriously consider the concept of strategy. The use of biological weapons would invite rapid escalation. Rapid escalation against an enemy which has the power and will to conduct overwhelming lightning campaigns of planetary depopulation is perhaps the most idiotic strategy imaginable.

When would they use such a strategy? Against Imperial worlds, which are spread across an entire galaxy and are so dispersed that it would take Federation ships years to reach the next one? Against Alpha Quadrant worlds which have capitulated to Imperial control? And how would they propose to control the inevitable escalated counter-strike?

These are children, thinking of military strategy in very child-like terms.

Not to mention that against a xenos-hating empire of religious fanatics like the Imperium of Man, using weapons like that would be the equivilant of lighting up a neon sign saying "DANGEROUS XENOS HERE, COME RAPE US!"

The Imperium really doesn't like the idea of someone else muscling in on their Exterminatus monopoly, and with their firepower they'd bust the Klingon Empire like overripe melons with a fraction of the manpower they devoted to the Damocles Gulf Crusade.

[Typhonis 1]

I believe their idea was Klingons use the weapon to devestate Armageddon enough so they can walz in and take it with few casualties. Because Imperial ships wouldn`t hang around the planet afterwards.

[Aratech]

I believe their idea was Klingons use the weapon to devestate Armageddon enough so they can walz in and take it with few casualties. Because Imperial ships wouldn`t hang around the planet afterwards.

Someone clearly isn't familiar with how the IoM operates. If we go out on a limb and assume that Exterminatus Extremus! wasn't the very next move by the IoM, then something arguably worse happens. The Klingons get introduced to the Adaptus Astari... or even worse. The prospect of the IoM finding itself in the middle of a eight front war if the klingons get their hands on comparable tech (hell of a big if, I know, but I don't think that the IoM will even risk the chance, no matter how slight) may be enough to cause them to shift a group or two of the Custodes out of the Imperial Palace.

Anally violated doesn't do justice to what happens to the lobster heads next...

[white_rabbit]

I believe their idea was Klingons use the weapon to devestate Armageddon enough so they can walz in and take it with few casualties. Because Imperial ships wouldn`t hang around the planet afterwards.

The entire thread was a short farce.

"the klingons land their troops in cloaked ships and use orbital bombardment"

" Bollocks, they don't have the troops or the ships to take on the Imperial vessels "

" Warp strafe, beams them into space, plasma chain reaction kills the planet, Klingons win!"


Basically a continuation of the previous thread, where stuff was basically made up, as described with the federation having ten billion combatants on earth, and starfleet troops deploying with rocket boots and combat shields, and shuttles providing air supremacy versus fifteen thousand Orkish fighters after Starfleet Engineers secretly build and erect an inpenetrable planetary shield to trap the Orks on the planet!

All this while the tens of thousands of starfleet vessels pummel the ork fleet with "cavalry tactics" (whatever the fuck that means).

Someone clearly isn't familiar with how the IoM operates. If we go out on a limb and assume that Exterminatus Extremus! wasn't the very next move by the IoM, then something arguably worse happens. The Klingons get introduced to the Adaptus Astari... or even worse. The prospect of the IoM finding itself in the middle of a eight front war if the klingons get their hands on comparable tech (hell of a big if, I know, but I don't think that the IoM will even risk the chance, no matter how slight) may be enough to cause them to shift a group or two of the Custodes out of the Imperial Palace.

The entire concept of laying waste to the planet to "conquer" it is retarded, if the objective was to slag it from orbit....yay Klingons. But lets not forget that most of Armageddons military assets are based out of gigantic armoured cities and bunkers.

Which brings up another logistical problem, to walk outside in vast areas of armageddon is horribly dangerous to humans without NBC gear.

Who wants to bet that the Klingons don't even have a developed doctrine for such situations ?

[Aratech]

Who wants to bet that the Klingons don't even have a developed doctrine for such situations ?

Has anyone, ever, in Trek, demonstrated such common sense? The UFP seems reliant on their tricorders and 'inoculation' of various types (though these have been seen to fail spectacularly one several occasions).

[Davey]

I find it funny how Trekkies always seem to want to analyze Star Trek versus Star Wars as an in-universe thing at first and maybe try using technobabble such as "The Borg have Regenerative Assimilation Technology!" and scientific-sounding phrases, but when things don't start going their way they just handwave it away with the "Hey, the writers wanted to show it this way, so your science doesn't apply!" card.

Reading up on some of the material posted on here, it seems the case of Trektardism I encountered is far from unique.

[Typhonis 1]

They beam down supplies and replicators was the answer to my question of how they would supply their forces.


Are they aware of the sheer amount of material needed to keep an army in the field? 1400 tons of suppliues a dfay for a Division isn`t it and they expect replicators to take care of that?

[Darth Wong]

I find it funny how Trekkies always seem to want to analyze Star Trek versus Star Wars as an in-universe thing at first and maybe try using technobabble such as "The Borg have Regenerative Assimilation Technology!" and scientific-sounding phrases, but when things don't start going their way they just handwave it away with the "Hey, the writers wanted to show it this way, so your science doesn't apply!" card.

Reading up on some of the material posted on here, it seems the case of Trektardism I encountered is far from unique.

I've said this before: the instant someone uses terms like "watts" and "electromagnetic" or "megatons" to describe starship capabilities, he is implicitly agreeing to try and evaluate the situation in scientific terms. The fact that he will often dismiss the relevance of science when it is turned against him is nothing more than proof of dishonesty.

In the vast majority of cases, they never really knew what they were talking about in the first place, and the only science they ever knew was those words.

[NecronLord]

And the mass-scattering bit was an anomaly, was it? Oh well. Still, their ships are closer to being in the same league as SW ships rather than ST ships, IIRC, although vastly outnumbered.

It was in a painfully stupid C S Goto (Search on his name, and see how much most every 40Ker here hates him) book where they attack a former-necron planet and its loss of 'structural integrity' (ick) causes it to 'fall apart.' As though the entire world was just a hollow shell; which, if one must have an explanation, is well within necron abilities. It's certainly not a reliable incident, and best explained as an outlier caused by reasons unknown.

There's another story that details IoM planet-scatterers, but there's only between six and four of them left, and they're chain reaction devices.

[EnterpriseSovereign]

Just caught Jay in a flat-out lie, I had to share this:

http://boards.startrek.com/community/me ... ry37356218

Took a while, but was worth it to find the thread in question

[Darkevilme]

I believe their idea was Klingons use the weapon to devestate Armageddon enough so they can walz in and take it with few casualties. Because Imperial ships wouldn`t hang around the planet afterwards.

Someone clearly isn't familiar with how the IoM operates. If we go out on a limb and assume that Exterminatus Extremus! wasn't the very next move by the IoM, then something arguably worse happens. The Klingons get introduced to the Adaptus Astari... or even worse. The prospect of the IoM finding itself in the middle of a eight front war if the klingons get their hands on comparable tech (hell of a big if, I know, but I don't think that the IoM will even risk the chance, no matter how slight) may be enough to cause them to shift a group or two of the Custodes out of the Imperial Palace.

Anally violated doesn't do justice to what happens to the lobster heads next...

At the risk of a tangent can i ask for a bit more information as to just how powerful these custodes are?

I mean the only info i've found so far is 'made from the emperor's geneseed' (weren't the primarchs made the same way?) 'emperor's personal guard' 'streamlined golden armour' 'halberds with guns inside'

[Swindle1984]

Who wants to bet that the Klingons don't even have a developed doctrine for such situations ?

Has anyone, ever, in Trek, demonstrated such common sense? The UFP seems reliant on their tricorders and 'inoculation' of various types (though these have been seen to fail spectacularly one several occasions).

There's a Voyager episode where crew members, starting with Harry and Tom, get copied by goo creatures on a planet whose atmosphere is unbreathable to humans.

The episode starts with Tom and Harry wandering around in full environmental suits, or possibly suits designed for operating in a vacuum. The suits then fail spectacularly, knocking them unconcious for most of the episode while we follow the adventures of their alien clones. I can't remember what the cause of the failure was; either the suits experienced a failure of some sort, or the two idiots were so monumentally stupid as to wander far enough from their shuttle that they ran out of air before coming back.

[Darth Servo]

1) EnterpriseSovereign, kindly dress your links.
2) The only thing constructive to do with Husker Jay is to repeatedly expose his idiocy, dishonesty, double-standards, etc. He is nothing more than Darkstar lite.

[Coiler]

h ttp://starfleetjedi.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=860

I post a link to Ender's clone/droid numbers page to try to dispell much of the board's belief in Traviss' ridiculous 3 million strong clone army.

JMSpock posts a "Catalog of errors and omissions" in response.

[Aratech]

At the risk of a tangent can i ask for a bit more information as to just how powerful these custodes are?

I mean the only info i've found so far is 'made from the emperor's geneseed' (weren't the primarchs made the same way?) 'emperor's personal guard' 'streamlined golden armour' 'halberds with guns inside'

Most of what I've gathered upon the Custodes comes from others comments towards them. IoM commanders usually consider a Space Marine (I.E. strong enough to pick 3+tons up overhead, run at speeds that enable them to cross in hours what take normal units weeks (100+ clicks a day over mountainous terrain) move fast enough to cross a room in the time it takes a human to pull the trigger on a gun, and sturdy enough to have 2 of their lungs wrecked, one of their hearts shot out of their body, half their ribs broken, get run through by a power sword and still manage to disarm the silly bastard who stuck them by twisting their torso's sidways and ripping the sword out of his hands, before in turn using it to kill him/taking a hypersonic 20mm adamantinum round to the face at point blank range and just getting pissed off super soldiers) are usually worth 1,000 Imperial Guard (the rank and file 'normal' humans). Custodes are considered to be worth a thousand Space Marines.

And, unless I'm much mistaken, the last time they went into battle against normal foes (the Orks, IIRC) they were scoring 100,000-1,000,000 to 1 kill to death ratios.

[TC Pilot]

HuskerJay's the process of unleashing a rather pathetic pro-Trek argument, seemingly in response to my prompting. I would kindly ask any here still involved on that thread to allow me to respond and utterly demolish his argument.

[Aratech]

HuskerJay's the process of unleashing a rather pathetic pro-Trek argument, seemingly in response to my prompting. I would kindly ask any here still involved on that thread to allow me to respond and utterly demolish his argument.

Cripes... a page and a half of ranting. Hasn't the fool ever heard of condensing his points into a single post? Seriously, his formatting is making my eyeballs want to stab themselves.

As an aside, I look forward to watching said demolition

[TC Pilot]

I do hope I'm up for the task. I feel after enduring JMSpock, HuskerJay will be relatively simple.

[Darth Servo]

HuskerJay's the process of unleashing a rather pathetic pro-Trek argument, seemingly in response to my prompting. I would kindly ask any here still involved on that thread to allow me to respond and utterly demolish his argument.

Knock yourself out. Nail him on how he just contradicted himself. He repeats his "A-wings took out the Executor" and then turns around and admits to three cap ships shooting it in his very next post.

[Darth Servo]

I do hope I'm up for the task. I feel after enduring JMSpock, HuskerJay will be relatively simple.

Simple in that his arguments are easily refuted. But he does employ the broken record tactic for forever and a day.

[TC Pilot]

Simple in that his arguments are easily refuted. But he does employ the broken record tactic for forever and a day.

I don't simply want to beat him over the head with his blatant idiocy. I want to do it calmly, politely, and without giving him any potential ammunition to accuse me being an "evil Warsie."

[Darth Wong]

Simple in that his arguments are easily refuted. But he does employ the broken record tactic for forever and a day.

I don't simply want to beat him over the head with his blatant idiocy. I want to do it calmly, politely, and without giving him any potential ammunition to accuse me being an "evil Warsie."

What will you do when he simply ignores your points over and over and repeats himself no matter what you say?

What he's doing is a lot like the "I can't hear you la la la la la" tactic. It may be childish, it may be stupid, it would be unforgivable in a mediated debate, but like it or not, it's very effective at frustrating and annoying people until they just get fed up and flame the user, at which point he declares Miss Manners victory.