nBSG 2x19 Lay Down Your Burdens, Part 1

[Alyeska]

The Vipers would make excelent trainers. They will likely stay with the Galactica squadron for a while, but they will eventualy have to be retired with new fighters replacing them. As others said, use as trainers is an excelent idea.

[Skylon]

Just a random thought- as the show goes on- assuming how many losses Galactica's fighter wing takes- the Viper Mk II should soon be completely eliminated from the Colonial Fleet. With attrition continuing, and no reason to believe that they either want to or know how to build the Mk II as opposed to the Mk VII, pretty soon the entire fighter wing of Galactica should be back to Mk VIIs- suitably modified to be resistant to the Cylon virus, of course. We already have Starbuck and Kat flying their own personal Mk VIIs in "Scar" (name plates).

The name plates BTW have never been a good indicator. If they did, then Apollo had a mk VII and a mk II when he was Galactica's CAG.

I suspect we'll see the mk II around for awhile if for no other reason than stock footage and also, I recall reading the production crew has mockups of two mk II's and one mk VII. But eventually it should be phased out. The spare parts issue would likely be the biggest factor here.

[Nephtys]

In other news... Basestars have windows.



No wonder they're so fragile. Look at all that habitation area, with windows.. meaning poor armor. [/img]

[Srynerson]

Only one crashed, but there were 20 Raptors (Helo reported 17 made it to Caprica plus the one he and Starbuck were in, 1 crashed, and 1 found the planet).

Two Raptors crashed. They already knew they were missing the one that found the planet, Helo wasn't repeating himself.

No, only one crashed, here's the dialogue:

Helo: Wait a minute. Wait a minute. Missing a raptor. I'm only reading 17 out there. We're missing raptor 6-12. That's Toughguy and Carousel.

Starbuck: What? They jumped to the wrong coordinates?

Helo: No. No, no. I'm picking up their transponder, so they made it. Bearing 827, carom 443. About half a klick from here. That would put them... Oh, my gods.

Starbuck: Where, Helo? Talk to me.

Helo: They jumped inside the mountain.

Starbuck: Damn. SAR Team, Starbuck. We've lost raptor 6-12. We are proceeding without them. Follow me.

[Vympel]

Ah- by "6-12" I thought he meant Raptors Six and Twelve.

[Wanderer]

Ah- by "6-12" I thought he meant Raptors Six and Twelve.

Don't feel bad, it got me too.

On another note. Anyone feel that with a little mining and perhaps a stay of 20 years or more on the new planet, the Colonials could do a major overhaul of the Galactica, such as upgrading the armor, sensor suite, ect. Or possibly build a whole new Battlestar...

Something to sleep on until my mind fully sees the possibilities to tackle on another thread.

[Gil Hamilton]

Don't feel bad, it got me too.

On another note. Anyone feel that with a little mining and perhaps a stay of 20 years or more on the new planet, the Colonials could do a major overhaul of the Galactica, such as upgrading the armor, sensor suite, ect. Or possibly build a whole new Battlestar...

Something to sleep on until my mind fully sees the possibilities to tackle on another thread.

It would take longer than 20 years to build a Battlestar. It would take longer than 20 years to build the industry capable of of building a new Battlestar. I don't think you appreciate the huge and stratisfied layers of society capable of building a starship, let alone one as big as a Battlestar. They've only got ~49500+ people in the fleet and most of them are just people. They aren't all engineers, technicians, laborers, accountants, managers or any of the literally hundreds of vocations that need filled to support a ship building industry. Vipers are one thing, a ship the size of the Pegasus or Galactica might have the on-board industry to make more of those, but you need a huge population base to support building a starship.

Really, unless they settle on it for a very long time, basically permanently, they won't be able to make much industry there at all. This planet would be a good place to fill up on foodstuffs and reactives, plus minerals if their exploration teams get lucky as sniffing out new mineral deposits isn't easy. This is why geologists who are hired by companies to do this are paid very well and generally involves a fair bit of digging. Plus, stopping for a few weeks to let people out and have feet under their ground would do wonders for morale. Plus, I'm sure they could find some plant for the Colonial brewers to distill into a beverage to keep Tigh from going on a headbutting rampage.

[Knife]

Don't feel bad, it got me too.

On another note. Anyone feel that with a little mining and perhaps a stay of 20 years or more on the new planet, the Colonials could do a major overhaul of the Galactica, such as upgrading the armor, sensor suite, ect. Or possibly build a whole new Battlestar...

Something to sleep on until my mind fully sees the possibilities to tackle on another thread.

It would take longer than 20 years to build a Battlestar. It would take longer than 20 years to build the industry capable of of building a new Battlestar. I don't think you appreciate the huge and stratisfied layers of society capable of building a starship, let alone one as big as a Battlestar. They've only got ~49500+ people in the fleet and most of them are just people. They aren't all engineers, technicians, laborers, accountants, managers or any of the literally hundreds of vocations that need filled to support a ship building industry. Vipers are one thing, a ship the size of the Pegasus or Galactica might have the on-board industry to make more of those, but you need a huge population base to support building a starship.

Really, unless they settle on it for a very long time, basically permanently, they won't be able to make much industry there at all. This planet would be a good place to fill up on foodstuffs and reactives, plus minerals if their exploration teams get lucky as sniffing out new mineral deposits isn't easy. This is why geologists who are hired by companies to do this are paid very well and generally involves a fair bit of digging. Plus, stopping for a few weeks to let people out and have feet under their ground would do wonders for morale. Plus, I'm sure they could find some plant for the Colonial brewers to distill into a beverage to keep Tigh from going on a headbutting rampage.

Agreed. If they did settle there permenately, it would take a generation just to get a stable food supply and housing and medication going good, let alone the industrial build up for something like a battlestar.

[xerex]

I think Tyrol might have gotten a pass if Cally said "Yeah, he just woke up and started swinging." Every single human alive would qualify for PTSD, and he didn't do his bit maliciously.

When I was at OCS, there was a sort of urban legend of sorts amongst us candidates that you couldn't be held legally responsible for anything you did within a certain number of seconds after you woke up. Something about not having really conscious control of yourself until you actually realized you were awake.
I don't know how true it was. A prior 8511 swore by it, so the rest of us took it as gospel

Well in British Law to be guilty of a crime you have to have both actus rea and mens rea. The action of commiting the crime and the intention of doing that action. There is a defense of 'automatism' whereby a person carried out an action without meaning to do so. the action being caused by some biological mechanism.--say epilepsy,brain tumor,hypoglycemic shock, sleepwalking.

i'd say its likely the United States (and possibly the Colonials) have some similar defence.

[Alyeska]

One thing a settlement could possibly do is work towards being capable of building Vipers. Leave a few ships and let them work in the system and see if they can sustain and build Vipers. Even this would take years though.

[Gil Hamilton]

One thing a settlement could possibly do is work towards being capable of building Vipers. Leave a few ships and let them work in the system and see if they can sustain and build Vipers. Even this would take years though.

Might take a while and I don't think they'd want to do it. I'd think they'd have to rip out their Viper producing facilities and land them on the surface with a powerplant, and leave behind the personnel to operate it. That could conceivably be a big hurt to the rest of the fleet to not having those fabrication facilities, particularly since the Vipers currently in use would almost certainly continue on with the fleet.

[Deathstalker]

On a seperate note, is it common knowledge in the fleet that there may be Cylons hiding among the population? Would people be so quick to settle on a planet, even one that may be hidden from detection, if there is a Cylon spy in the fleet to blab the location?

[Knife]

One thing a settlement could possibly do is work towards being capable of building Vipers. Leave a few ships and let them work in the system and see if they can sustain and build Vipers. Even this would take years though.

Might take a while and I don't think they'd want to do it. I'd think they'd have to rip out their Viper producing facilities and land them on the surface with a powerplant, and leave behind the personnel to operate it. That could conceivably be a big hurt to the rest of the fleet to not having those fabrication facilities, particularly since the Vipers currently in use would almost certainly continue on with the fleet.

And leave them might vulnerable. Just because the Cylons haven't found the place doesn mean they won't at some point. Plus, Adama knows that there are still infiltrators aboard the fleet that could cough up the location.

[Gil Hamilton]

On a seperate note, is it common knowledge in the fleet that there may be Cylons hiding among the population? Would people be so quick to settle on a planet, even one that may be hidden from detection, if there is a Cylon spy in the fleet to blab the location?

The Cylon infiltrator probably wouldn't know their location. Unless the Cylons can triangulate such an infiltrators signal, which might be very hard with distances involved and broadcast ranges that an infiltrator might have access to, an infiltrator that isn't very high up wouldn't be able to blab. And as has been pointed out, if there were Cylons in very high positions left, they'd have already caused some disaster.

However, I think the worry is not a Cylon infiltrator blabbing but the Cylons already knowing about the planet and send patrols there or a Cylon ship tailing them there. If they put too much of a presence on the planet too long, the Cylons could catch them with their dicks in their hands and they'd have to fight or abandon those left on the planet. That's essentially Roslin's argument and why Baltar thought the idea of settling the planet for more than a very brief time was madness (until Baltar realized he was a politician and did the slimy thing of making it a campaign issue).

[Gil Hamilton]

And leave them might vulnerable. Just because the Cylons haven't found the place doesn mean they won't at some point. Plus, Adama knows that there are still infiltrators aboard the fleet that could cough up the location.

See my previous post about infiltrators. However, it does leave them incredibly vulnerable. If they dump that many assets on the surface, they are obligated to protect them.

That means they can't really hide from a Cylon patrol exploring the system or worse, a Cylon patrol that knows of the planet and know it would be a very attractive place to trap the colonials while their assets are on the surface.

[Knife]

And leave them might vulnerable. Just because the Cylons haven't found the place doesn mean they won't at some point. Plus, Adama knows that there are still infiltrators aboard the fleet that could cough up the location.

See my previous post about infiltrators. However, it does leave them incredibly vulnerable. If they dump that many assets on the surface, they are obligated to protect them.

That means they can't really hide from a Cylon patrol exploring the system or worse, a Cylon patrol that knows of the planet and know it would be a very attractive place to trap the colonials while their assets are on the surface.

Any infiltrator wouldn't need an eight digit grid; rather just to know that there is a planet hidden in a nebula, to vector the 'in the Cylons view' calvary in on.

[LadyTevar]

I think Tyrol might have gotten a pass if Cally said "Yeah, he just woke up and started swinging." Every single human alive would qualify for PTSD, and he didn't do his bit maliciously.

When I was at OCS, there was a sort of urban legend of sorts amongst us candidates that you couldn't be held legally responsible for anything you did within a certain number of seconds after you woke up. Something about not having really conscious control of yourself until you actually realized you were awake.

I don't know how true it was. A prior 8511 swore by it, so the rest of us took it as gospel

An ex-Marine friend of mine tells a story about his squadbuddy who was using his downtime for rack-ops. In other words, he was napping. The new Lt. stalks in for some reason, and gets annoyed that Pfc Dyer wasn't awake. So the Lt. stalks up to Dyer's rack and tries to shakes him awake by the shoulder.
Pfc Dyer came up off the bed leading with a fist and knocked the Lt. on his ass, then fell back on the rack still sound asleep. According to the story, the Lt was told he should have known better than to try to wake a combat-trained Marine by shaking his shoulder, and Pfc Dyer was not aware of his actions at the time.

[CaptainChewbacca]

If you want to wake up a guy without provoking a reaction, scratch his head. It sounds stupid, but it works.

[Centurian99]

I think Tyrol might have gotten a pass if Cally said "Yeah, he just woke up and started swinging." Every single human alive would qualify for PTSD, and he didn't do his bit maliciously.

When I was at OCS, there was a sort of urban legend of sorts amongst us candidates that you couldn't be held legally responsible for anything you did within a certain number of seconds after you woke up. Something about not having really conscious control of yourself until you actually realized you were awake.

I don't know how true it was. A prior 8511 swore by it, so the rest of us took it as gospel

An ex-Marine friend of mine tells a story about his squadbuddy who was using his downtime for rack-ops. In other words, he was napping. The new Lt. stalks in for some reason, and gets annoyed that Pfc Dyer wasn't awake. So the Lt. stalks up to Dyer's rack and tries to shakes him awake by the shoulder.
Pfc Dyer came up off the bed leading with a fist and knocked the Lt. on his ass, then fell back on the rack still sound asleep. According to the story, the Lt was told he should have known better than to try to wake a combat-trained Marine by shaking his shoulder, and Pfc Dyer was not aware of his actions at the time.

Yeah...always throw something.

By the way, it's prior Marine. The only ex-Marines are the ones who've been court-martialed.

[Knife]

Yeah...always throw something.

By the way, it's prior Marine. The only ex-Marines are the ones who've been court-martialed.

Meh, most jarheads aren't too over worked by the term, being a Marine means you don't really have to prove yourself in those terms anymore.

[LadyTevar]

Yeah...always throw something.

By the way, it's prior Marine. The only ex-Marines are the ones who've been court-martialed.

Meh, most jarheads aren't too over worked by the term, being a Marine means you don't really have to prove yourself in those terms anymore.

Former Jarhead, how'bout that? Especially since he's now got hair longer and thicker than mine ever grew. Pity it's salt-n-pepper already, hes' barely 35.

[GuppyShark]

On Colonisation:

I suspect that if I had just spent nine months as ballast in a bulk freighter, I'd probably be willing to take the chance.

If you make planetfall, you risk:

The cylons stumbling across the planet somehow as they pursue the fleet.

If you continue with the fleet, you are hoping that:

Earth actually exists.
The Cylons do not destroy the fleet before it reaches Earth.
The thirteenth tribe will be welcoming.
The thirteenth tribe will be in a position to protect you from the pursuing Cylons.

I'd rather take one gamble than four.

[Uraniun235]

If you continue with the fleet, you are hoping that:

Earth actually exists.

Kobol exists, and that was a legend.

[Vympel]

Not only does Kobol exist, the Arrow of Apollo worked when they used it, teleporting them by some mysterious means (probably a collective vision of some kind, rather than actual teleportation, for obvious reasons) to Earth. There's zero reasonable doubt that Earth is out there. And if there is, why not the Thirteenth Colony, with it's fleets of non-networked Battlestars?

Just thought I'd throw in that last bit ...

[Uraniun235]

Not only does Kobol exist, the Arrow of Apollo worked when they used it, teleporting them by some mysterious means (probably a collective vision of some kind, rather than actual teleportation, for obvious reasons) to Earth. There's zero reasonable doubt that Earth is out there. And if there is, why not the Thirteenth Colony, with it's fleets of non-networked Battlestars?

Just thought I'd throw in that last bit ...

Why do so many people automatically assume teleportation? That seems a much bigger and implausible leap than, say, a holodeck-esque environment.