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I haven't figured out what my military would cost, but it's relatively small and has no carriers or battleships. Still, I wonder if its too big for a little country with a shitty economy.

In regards to something PMed to me regarding where Gill goes, I would kinda prefer either:

1) To keep nations 20 and 21 on the map as NPCs and have Gill go over in NPC slot #31 between Corona and Omnia, in which case he'd probably want to coordinate backstory and initial national posture with The Romulan Republic or

2) To coordinate fairly closely with Gill and have there be A History between me and him, with him occupying NPC slot #21 south of my country. Not necessarily a violent history, I have no plans to invaderize him or desire to start play with a claim on his whole country or anything, but enough to be germane. Think about the historical relationship between China and Vietnam or China and Korea, although with less of a present-day GDP mismatch.

It doesn't much make a difference to me. If the decision is that Gill goes in slot #21, I'd like to send him a PM regarding some outstanding issues.

TimothyC wrote:Edit: When combined with the numbers here, here, and the inflation calculator here. The average USN budget (in 2009 dollars) was about $144 billion. This means that the USN spent about 9.8% of it's budget on new ship construction.

The numbers won't quite work exactly because shipbuilding costs in the US have outpaced inflation by 1.4% per year over the period of 1980-2009, but it's a close estimate.

If you want to dig deeper, the USN budget books for 1997-present are here.

Thank you very much, looks like it would be infeasible for me to have such large numbers of smaller craft.

I had considered spot 20 because I sort of liked the shape and minimal coastline (and the fact it was blue), but 21 probably works out better in retrospect if you'd consider having a poor border state that might eventually get angry over fishing rights or function as a buffer zone against something else.

However, being at 31 also has its advantages in. Romulan Republic described Corona as being fairly mountainous, which would justify Belkan being an arid place within its neighbor's rain shadow, and they'd share similar social and economic issues.

I'd favor the former option at this moment unless there are serious objections. I'm also having particular trouble getting an OrBats completed because Greece was much better armed than I had anticipated (because Turkey and the Balkans?). I'd operate at a greater disadvantage. Perhaps the solution lies in there being a certain neighbor willing to offer a steal on equipment that would have been advanced fifty years ago, though that reminds me more of North Korea and Vietnam's relationship with the Soviet Union than the PRC.

Gill, if you are looking for surplus hardware, I'm sure Orion can help, we're in the process of replacing our destroyers and attack subs.

Hrm . . . As far as destroyer sized ships goes, that would work out nicely given the lack of areas suitable for the construction and servicing large vessels.

Yet I also like the thought of getting worn out old helicopters in particular and having to make them work. You mentioned the Army being an air-asset heavy version of the British Army, and it seems they're in the process of phasing out the aging Westland Lynx.

Think of all the potential spare parts contracts!

...Belkan, you say? A difference of one letter, and you've got this.

I'd be a lot happier having a PC neighbor for 20 than 21, if you're over in my neck of the woods. Would you be OK with that? We can work out the details of the landforms however you need.

Being over on the other side of the continent also puts your nation in the San Doradan sphere of economic interest, which is excitingly challenging, especially for a nation that's up to its eyeballs in debt and economic dysfunction like modern Greece.

Gill: if you're in either 20 or 21, you're pretty close to me and I have one of the larger global economies out there. So I'd be a good source of surplus equipment provided we play nice with each other. I'd have to go check back in your write-up to see whether we would or not. Still, as long as you're not super oppressive with human rights violations, we likely would be.

OTOH 31 puts you more on Orion's side of things, so they'd make sense there.

Shinn Langley Soryu wrote:...Belkan, you say? A difference of one letter, and you've got this.

Oh no, that's just a coincidence! No passing references to the original Strangereal universe here. It's not like I could nuke my own territory for denial with the current rule set, anyway.

Regardless: 20 it is then. Belkan is not a particularly oppressive state as it is a tremendously conservative one at heart, but it has the oppressiveness for such and tremendous unrest given the right carrot and stick. Starting out with virtually nothing and moving on up (or finding out that the distance in which states can fall is effectively unlimited) sounds fun, especially when doing so actually requires setting up relations with nations outside and potentially doing their dirty work if not becoming a Afghanistan like quagmire of infighting and foreign invasions. If anyone needs cheap foreign manpower, a place to put their toxic and/or radioactive waste and medical test subjects, I'm sure some of the more unscrupulous fief holders or another will be more than willing to participate or get rich trying! On the other hand, that could provoke change just the same as reigning in on debt World Bank style or offering briefcases full of cash with the condition of civil liberty expansions.

Well, we'd probably be like the latter. "Hey we'll sell you this ship, please stop using branding as a punishment." But since you're strategically close enough that we don't want any evil foreigners setting up naval or air bases on your land, we'd be willing to accept such promises will only exist on paper to keep you in our camp.

Guided tours and the like to inspectors would be a totally legit way of conclusively proving that whatever sanctions and conditions are being followed to the letter. Those so called, "viral" videos you've been seeing on the internet are clearly photoshopped attempts to sully the great name of the Republic of Belkan. See the pixelation in that MeTube video of the alleged public execution? Clearly it's a fake!

Existing as a buffer zone is seeming more and more exciting, though. Lots of room for espionage and intrigue.

Well, the 30th has come and gone. If my Orbat has intimidated anyone into thinking they need one just as detailed... you don't, I'm just weird that way. Feel free to post a simple list of how many units you have of what and call it a day. That way we can get to the story and I can play with my toys, er, I mean, employ my Navy for humanitarian purposes or showing the flag.

Hm. I think the reason we haven't got an actual start to the game is that a lot of people either aren't sure what to do for story posts, or are waiting on someone else. I confess I haven't been able to think of interesting storylines detailing prompt interactions with other nations, but I'm a chronic reaction-poster, as illustrated by my ratio of posts made in other people's threads to threads I started myself.

Has anyone else had any luck?

I am just waiting for Steve to start the IC thread, I didn't want to step on any toes and take away his tradition.

I do have my first post pretty much finished and could start anytime. Now given people want to start I'll just post it in 12 hours if Steve doesn't do so.

Oh, heh. Well, thread's up.

Siege and I have to discuss it, but we'll probably set a deadline for OrBats before they're declared final, no take-backs or fixes beyond this point.

I'll have mine up before evening local time, though I ended up writing a bit more purely descriptive text than I originally intended to.

I know what my opening post will be, it's just wrestling with the sodding orbat is taking a distracting amount of time

If it's giving you trouble, put in raw numbers and worry about specific units and bases or what have you later.

ok. number splooge: http://bbs.stardestroyer.net/viewtopic. ... 4#p3849074

I'm going to be without internet access for the next couple of days, but I'll have a rough OOB done by next Monday and a story post as soon as possible.

Steve wrote:If it's giving you trouble, put in raw numbers and worry about specific units and bases or what have you later.

Can you give me an estimate for how long that will be? Are we talking "next two days" or "next two weeks?"

Or alternatively forget about the orbat and just play the game.

Siege wrote:Or alternatively forget about the orbat and just play the game.

I second this.

I swear, if the same procrastination nonsense like the last last game happens again, I'm not going to show much mercy on the "shitting rocks" bit.

So are we looking at a world with inflated defense spending (say roughly double what we have IRL) or one where nations are spending close to what an IRL nation would spend?